Glamorous Usula E.U. Babe

[Raja Clavata]

Lol - you didn't do so bad yourself 😛 

[Mungler]

So, in short "I disagree" entirely. The proof in that pudding is in the eating and in the UK we are eating vaccine pudding like a spinster at a wedding as the EU barely makes it past the entrees.

With Brexit we got the heads up at our borders with France as to what was coming over the horizon. We piled in first and fastest which is why I and others have vaccine pudding on our ties and the French and Germans are staring into empty bowls wondering when their pudding is coming (having only told the restaurant the day before that the puddings were suspected to give everyone blood clots and that they didn't want any).

Indeed, we should return to this once we see exactly how to EU is going to meddle in the vaccine procurement process over the course of the next week or so.

.

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Mungler

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I am waiting for my second helping!

[TRINITY]

When supply gets disrupted we should not allow any to go to Scotland. Let wee Jimmy spread her legs to her European chums in order to get her dose 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, TRINITY said:

When supply gets disrupted we should not allow any to go to Scotland.

I'd prefer to keep (hopefully a majority) of residents and voters in Scotland pro Union, so that wee Jimmy fails to get a valid independence vote.  IF you stopped vaccine supplies to Scotland - you almost guarantee she gets her way in a vote.

[TRINITY]

8 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I'd prefer to keep (hopefully a majority) of residents and voters in Scotland pro Union, so that wee Jimmy fails to get a valid independence vote.  IF you stopped vaccine supplies to Scotland - you almost guarantee she gets her way in a vote.

Scotland will never be pro union, its lost ,its only a matter of time. We need to start asset stripping the place. We will never buy or earn their loyalty.

[ditchman]

7 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

Scotland will never be pro union, its lost ,its only a matter of time. We need to start asset stripping the place. We will never buy or earn their loyalty.

[Vince Green]

12 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I'd prefer to keep (hopefully a majority) of residents and voters in Scotland pro Union, so that wee Jimmy fails to get a valid independence vote.  IF you stopped vaccine supplies to Scotland - you almost guarantee she gets her way in a vote.

Scotland will be trying to rig the vote

firstly by allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote, even though the legal age to vote in UK is 18

secondly by allowing EU Nationals to vote, despite not being eligible. That begs the question, how many EU Nationals did they allow to vote in the Brexit vote in 2016? 

I should point out that EU citizens from the Republic of Ireland have always been allowed to vote in UK. Whether or not they should in the future is open to debate 

 

[12gauge82]

20 hours ago, bavarianbrit said:

But Ursula is a qualified medical doctor and mutti Merkel was a university research scientist in quantum chemistry before going into politics. So what do you have to balance your comment, an O level?

Keep to the plot.

Well it's clearly not helping them roll out a vaccine program is it. Thank god for thicko brexiteers hey! 

17 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I cannot seriously believe you didn't / don't get the original point. It related to your assertion that but for Brexit we'd have been shackled to the same vaccine sourcing issues as the EU. All pointers are that in reality that needn't have been the case at all.

You either missed the point repeatedly or fell over yourself with the remoaner rant (playing to the audience again), or frankly, I don't know what...

Two of you (not sure yours counts, so perhaps one but certainly not all) had a stab at my point - again you're playing to the crowd (let's imply it's everyone else against Raja) - tut tut.

You don't need to walk me through this thread post by post or by any other means thank-you.

Ironically you suggest my undergarments are twisted but you went off on some weird tangent about vaccine development.

I am not bemoaning Brexit in way, shape or form. I am just querying what I believe to be a false claim that Brexit has saved our COVID bacon. 

I believe brexit has saved our vaccine bacon. Look how the EU have behaved trying to block us receiving our vaccines. Do you seriously think if we were still in their gang of gangsters they'd have allowed us to roll our vaccine program out like we have without punishment? 

[matone]

12 hours ago, TRINITY said:

Scotland will never be pro union, its lost ,its only a matter of time. We need to start asset stripping the place. We will never buy or earn their loyalty.

Are there any assets?

11 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Well it's clearly not helping them roll out a vaccine program is it. Thank god for thicko brexiteers hey! 

I believe brexit has saved our vaccine bacon. Look how the EU have behaved trying to block us receiving our vaccines. Do you seriously think if we were still in their gang of gangsters they'd have allowed us to roll our vaccine program out like we have without punishment? 

True ,if anyone doubted their true colours this latest turmoil has exposed them for what most commonsense people knew them and their Club to be!!!

[Raja Clavata]

5 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I believe brexit has saved our vaccine bacon. Look how the EU have behaved trying to block us receiving our vaccines. Do you seriously think if we were still in their gang of gangsters they'd have allowed us to roll our vaccine program out like we have without punishment? 

You're of course entitled to your belief but it doesn't appear to match published expert opinion.

To answer your question, it's impossible to say since the dynamic would be completely different in the absence of Brexit. 

20 hours ago, Mungler said:

So, in short "I disagree" entirely. The proof in that pudding is in the eating and in the UK we are eating vaccine pudding like a spinster at a wedding as the EU barely makes it past the entrees.

With Brexit we got the heads up at our borders with France as to what was coming over the horizon. We piled in first and fastest which is why I and others have vaccine pudding on our ties and the French and Germans are staring into empty bowls wondering when their pudding is coming (having only told the restaurant the day before that the puddings were suspected to give everyone blood clots and that they didn't want any).

Indeed, we should return to this once we see exactly how to EU is going to meddle in the vaccine procurement process over the course of the next week or so.

.

 

Interesting analogy. It's a good job your mass food shortage prophecy didn't materialise else we'd all be dreaming of puddings and much more 😛 

Even BoJo has stated our vaccine success is due to greed which is completely free of interference from Brexit. Ironically though it's also precisely what many cite the "EU mafia" are guilty of. Strange times indeed. 

[ditchman]

i see on the news that Angela Merkle has lost her bottle over the easter lockdown.........wonder how many lives that will cost ............stupid woman.....

[Raja Clavata]

Does anyone know the formal name for the cognitive bias which leads to the conclusion that anyone you disagree with is an idiot / stupid person / simpleton - Dunning Kruger Effect probably does not quite describe it adequately? I'm asking for a friend who is thinking there's a great market for a therapeutic course in this subject...

[Rewulf]

29 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

the conclusion that anyone you disagree with is an idiot

There is likely no word for it , simply because barring a mental incapacity to accept facts/truth, you/they have disagreed on an opinion.
If you believe your argument is stronger (IE You are in the right) it is up to YOU to prove the basis of this, and vice versa.

To disagree takes both parties to disagree, so without the element of proof (That you both agree upon) , you would BOTH be guilty of the errr...condition.

Believing someone to be an idiot/fool ect does not require the act of disagreement to be formalised, and can often be acquired on first inspection 

 

[udderlyoffroad]

51 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I'm asking for a friend who is thinking there's a great market for a therapeutic course in this subject...

And 24hrs later, you've ignored/missed my question...

 

Quote

Do you, really, truly believe, had we been in the EU, and our politicians had realised the EU approval and procurement process was a cluster, and had decided to go our own way, that the EU would've just accepted this?

Regardless of whether we could legally have done this or not, they would've raised a ****storm.

Purely conjecture of course, and a one of those not really helpful what-if-in-history questions, but that was what the article you linked to claimed.

My feeling is yes, without Brexit we wouldn't be in the position we are in now with respect to vaccines, but only because we had the political, rather than legal wherewithal to go our own way.

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, udderlyoffroad said:

And 24hrs later, you've ignored/missed my question...

 

My feeling is yes, without Brexit we wouldn't be in the position we are in now with respect to vaccines, but only because we had the political, rather than legal wherewithal to go our own way.

Apologies, there were a lot of questions and I was a bit distracted by Mungler's grandstanding.

If your question related to EU reaction, as highlighted, then I think I indirectly responded to that in my reply to 12gauge earlier - it would have been a completely different dynamic. Was that the question? I think I may not have directly answered others you posed too, my bad.

[Raja Clavata]

23 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

There is likely no word for it , simply because barring a mental incapacity to accept facts/truth, you/they have disagreed on an opinion.
If you believe your argument is stronger (IE You are in the right) it is up to YOU to prove the basis of this, and vice versa.

To disagree takes both parties to disagree, so without the element of proof (That you both agree upon) , you would BOTH be guilty of the errr...condition.

Believing someone to be an idiot/fool ect does not require the act of disagreement to be formalised, and can often be acquired on first inspection 

 

I don't think "my friend" was exclusively thinking about online disagreements with strangers in this context.

There is also the case whereby somebody disagrees with the action of another and thereby brands them an idiot e.g. Harry, Greta, Merkel etc.

Anyway, I agree with you on this. I was tempted to say more but will stop there 😛  

[udderlyoffroad]

No worries

My question is as per the quote above:

Do you honestly believe that had we remained in the EU, and decided to go our own way on the vaccines - as the article you linked to suggests we could have - that the EU would've calmly and quietly let us do that?

Because I say no way in hell.  They would've absolutely spat their dummy out and told us we were just being xenophobic little Englanders. 

Whether or not in law we could have is one thing, whether politically it would've been possible is quite another.

They would have dragged us to the European Court and caused delay after delay.  Meanwhile the pro-EU press would've gone in for the kill, demanding to know why Boris(or whoever) dared to deviate from the Glorious EU masterplan.

And before you say it, yes, I will happily concede that, on the face of it, this is one of those unhelpful, what-if-in-history questions.

But, actually this is at the heart of the EU Vaccine issue for me.  No Brexit = No political ability to do our own thing.  The legal ability of a member state to carve their own path is almost irrelevant.

[Raja Clavata]

5 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

No worries

My question is as per the quote above:

Do you honestly believe that had we remained in the EU, and decided to go our own way on the vaccines - as the article you linked to suggests we could have - that the EU would've calmly and quietly let us do that?

Because I say no way in hell.  They would've absolutely spat their dummy out and told us we were just being xenophobic little Englanders. 

Whether or not in law we could have is one thing, whether politically it would've been possible is quite another.

They would have dragged us to the European Court and caused delay after delay.  Meanwhile the pro-EU press would've gone in for the kill, demanding to know why Boris(or whoever) dared to deviate from the Glorious EU masterplan.

And before you say it, yes, I will happily concede that, on the face of it, this is one of those unhelpful, what-if-in-history questions.

But, actually this is at the heart of the EU Vaccine issue for me.  No Brexit = No political ability to do our own thing.  The legal ability of a member state to carve their own path is almost irrelevant.

Again I think it's impossible to say since the dynamic (UK EU relations) would be different if Brexit hadn't happened. Do you get my point on this, I think it's a fundamental  one?

I'm not a legal expert but I was under the impression there are instruments in EU law under which certain articles can be invoked which allow such things to happen in exceptional circumstances, circumstances like COVID. Indeed Germany did it and I believe other states too.

I'm not sure I see complete separation between politics and law as I think they are inter-twined (Brexit has shown us that). 

edit: by Brexit I mean the whole process not the final separation i.e. different 2016 referendum outcome

Edited March 24, 2021 by Raja Clavata

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

You're of course entitled to your belief but it doesn't appear to match published expert opinion.

To answer your question, it's impossible to say since the dynamic would be completely different in the absence of Brexit. 

 

I would disagree with that so ditto to you 👍

[Raja Clavata]

9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I would disagree with that so ditto to you 👍

To clarify, you disagree with the expert opinion, the point about a different dynamic in the absence of Brexit, or both?

[Gordon R]

Quote

There is also the case whereby somebody disagrees with the action of another and thereby brands them an idiot e.g. Harry, Greta, Merkel etc.

I think I have branded all three and possibly more as idiots. It isn't a condition, it is the gift of sight and commonsense. To be clear, is there anyone who thinks these are sensible people?

PS - Mungler was not "grandstanding" in my book. Perhaps there is also a condition whereby people see the truth.

[ditchman]

Might be helpful if someone would go to the trouble of putting "a list of idiots"up.....no need to catorgorise them 

[Walker570]

We used to use the term .."verbal diarrhoea"  certainly a case of the squits on this subject.

In short ... Thank god we are out ....and I'm an athiest

[TIGHTCHOKE]