henry d Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, chrisjpainter said: By having so many types of unlawful killing verdicts, it's asking the jury to differentiate on too many issues and at too finer level. I was under the impression that they were given access to or guidance as to what was required to give a certain verdict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Lets hope it makes a difference the next time and officer is tempted to over reach their role and purpose. To my mind it's a step in the right direction but only a very small one. The whole police and justice system needs a major overhaul. It's barely one step beyond where it was left by Wyatt Earp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, henry d said: I was under the impression that they were given access to or guidance as to what was required to give a certain verdict. Yeah, I think you're right. It'd be nice to know what that guidance was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 ISTR Floyd was a big bloke with a previous conviction and prison time for armed robbery, has anyone heard if he resisted arrest on that occasion too? My thinking is if he'd got in the patrol car he'd still be alive and wouldn't have needed massive control measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 who needs any guidance with it all on video no doubt same people pretending this bully was not caught bang to rights will be applauding the video showing the 15yr old lunatic trying to stab someone was justifiably shot which was clearly the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dave-G said: ISTR Floyd was a big bloke with a previous conviction and prison time for armed robbery, has anyone heard if he resisted arrest on that occasion too? My thinking is if he'd got in the patrol car he'd still be alive and wouldn't have needed massive control measures. This. when criminals stop resisting arrest and fighting with cops, they’ll stop getting shot as frequently. Edited April 21, 2021 by oscarsdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 minute ago, oscarsdad said: when criminals stop resisting arrest and fighting with cops, they’ll stop getting shot as frequently. The police report said he was 'under the influence', so may not have been behaving rationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: The police report said he was 'under the influence', so may not have been behaving rationally. Tough. Don’t take illegal drugs then - that’s on him. But I do agree Chauvin should have been found guilty. What is odd is the family celebrating...if Floyd wasn’t a criminal scumbag on drugs, he wouldn’t be dead so where’s the victory. the bbc just reported that the conviction is a demonstration of America’s systemic racism...I don’t see how, it just shows one dodgy cop killed a criminal, no racial element has been proven Edited April 21, 2021 by oscarsdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 minute ago, oscarsdad said: so where’s the victory. I believe they have a MASSIVE compensation claim - which will almost automatically be valid if he was guilty. I heard $27M https://news.sky.com/story/minneapolis-city-council-to-pay-27m-settlement-to-george-floyd-family-12244130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said: I believe they have a MASSIVE compensation claim - which will almost automatically be valid if he was guilty. I heard $27M https://news.sky.com/story/minneapolis-city-council-to-pay-27m-settlement-to-george-floyd-family-12244130 Ah, I see - could have been celebrated with a bit more decorum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Just now, oscarsdad said: Ah, I see - could have been celebrated with a bit more decorum (Most) Americans don't 'do' decorum! Why is a waster and petty criminal worth $27M compensation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 as the court has established floyd is the VICTIM here some decorum is definitely in order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, Dave-G said: ISTR Floyd was a big bloke with a previous conviction and prison time for armed robbery, has anyone heard if he resisted arrest on that occasion too? My thinking is if he'd got in the patrol car he'd still be alive and wouldn't have needed massive control measures. 100% plus but of course no snowflake liberal lefties wish to look at that side of things, the criminal is always in the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 minute ago, clangerman said: as the court has established floyd is the VICTIM here some decorum is definitely in order It's his relatives and their supporters who are celebrating. They have just got the equivalent of having won the lottery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: It's his relatives and their supporters who are celebrating. They have just got the equivalent of having won the lottery. That was predictable as soon as we saw his luxurious coffin. Strikes me a somewhat better martyr could have been chosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Dave-G said: That was predictable as soon as we saw his luxurious coffin. Strikes me a somewhat better martyr could have been chosen. Like many things in America - things are dressed up as 'social issues' but really - it's all about the Dollars. The BLM founder has built a huge property portfolio from contributions from her supporters. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/patrisse-cullors-blm-founder-home-b1832846.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Never mind how many millions, they will soon be back on skid row and some businesses will benefit. What comes around goes around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Like many things in America - things are dressed up as 'social issues' but really - it's all about the Dollars. The BLM founder has built a huge property portfolio from contributions from her supporters. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/patrisse-cullors-blm-founder-home-b1832846.html And she also recently spoke out about her support of black people looting shops as payback for slavery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Very cynical, 🙂 but accurate. If you inject $27M in to a locality rife with crime - then every local criminal is going to be fighting for their 'share' and more. No doubt that more will get hurt as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 At least the Officer had er................a 'Fair Trial' ! I am sure the 27 million will help ease the Family's pain. Out of the goodness of their hearts they decided to give some of the money back to the community......................all 500,000 dollars worth of it ! Oh and the 'Race' card was being played here in 1980's during and after the riots, it is NOT unique to USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) I believe this has been a witch hunt, a completely unfair trial and a miscarriage of justice. One officer is offered as the scapegoat for all police brutality in the US. I could squint and see manslaughter through negligence but murder is ridiculous. A convicted felon who robbed a pregnant woman at gun point is arrested whilst high on drugs and committing a crime. He has heart disease and a history of drug overdoses effecting his heat and breathing. Before Chauvin attends the scene and before he is even restrained Floyd is already complaining he can’t breath and is in a high state of distress. He’s probably already having a heart attack. He is so high he can not communicate his medical emergency and so resists lawful transfer to a police vehicle. Chauvin turns up and gets fed up with Floyd’s antics. Chauvin shows no compassion or concern for the man and pins him down awaiting him to calm down or come off his high and allow for safe transfer to the vehicle. Floyd dies from a heart attack he was almost certainly already suffering from. Chauvin is probably a wrong’un but by no means a murderer. Edited April 21, 2021 by WalkedUp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: I believe this has been a witch hunt, a completely unfair trial and a miscarriage of justice. One officer is offered as the scapegoat for all police brutality in the US. I could squint and see manslaughter through negligence but murder is ridiculous. A convicted felon who robbed a pregnant woman at gun point is arrested whilst high on drugs and committing a crime. He has heart disease and a history of drug overdoses effecting his heat and breathing. Before Chauvin attends the scene and before he is even restrained Floyd is already complaining he can’t breath and is in a high state of distress. He’s probably already having a heart attack. He is so high he can not communicate his medical emergency and so resists lawful transfer to a police vehicle. Chauvin turns up and gets fed up with Floyd’s antics. Chauvin shows no compassion or concern for the man and pins him down awaiting him to calm down or come off his high and allow for safe transfer to the vehicle. Floyd dies from a heart attack he was almost certainly already suffering from. Chauvin is probably a wrong’un but by no means a murderer. There are many things to discuss about the trial but it's worth remembering that it's the US legal system and the charges bought have US definitions. Murder in the 2nd is very similar to the UK definition of manslaughter but carries a narrower definition, hence the need for US legal system to have more than 1 or two categories. Just because they use the word murder doesn't mean it's the same as the UK definition. ChrisJ gave a good run down on the first page. Based on the definitions in US law I don't think the charges bought were unreasonable, although I was a little surprised finding him guilty of 2nd degree murder. (Although probably not surprised given the social pressure that would be on the jury). There was a lot of chest beating when he wasn't charged with first degree murder (which is basically the UK definition of murder), but the prosecutor sensibly realised that would fall over very quickly. I get the reason why they didn't but I did expect the defence to play more on the gathering crowd surrounding the arrest as reason for the officer being distracted. I have a friend who is an EMT for a firehouse in Detroit - he has two medals, one for dragging a fellow paramedic out of a crowd trying to kick the chap to death and one for injury in the line of duty where he was cold cocked by someone in a crowd who had gathered nearby. And he's a pretty benign EMT for the Fire department, let a lone a cop. Crowds aren't a police man's friend at the best of times but in that sort of situation they are 100% deadly, especially in America. If I'm the officer being surrounded by a growing crowd you bet your life that's where my focus is, not the chap on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Dave-G said: ISTR Floyd was a big bloke with a previous conviction and prison time for armed robbery, has anyone heard if he resisted arrest on that occasion too? My thinking is if he'd got in the patrol car he'd still be alive and wouldn't have needed massive control measures. He got in the car complained that he could not breathe, Chauvin dragged him out the other side and really helped by kneeling on his neck for around nine minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 those making excuses should save their sympathy for the officers who thanks to this bully now have to endanger their own lives making sure they have the grounds to act he has made their job far more risky now all he deserves is a long prison sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, henry d said: He got in the car complained that he could not breathe, Chauvin dragged him out the other side and really helped by kneeling on his neck for around nine minutes At least we agree on this 👍 #FreeChauvin Edited April 21, 2021 by WalkedUp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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