Profound statement from Chief Constable

[Bobba]

I too, in general, am a supporter of the police.

That said, I do feel, however, that from time to time some lose sight of The Peeler (or, Pelian) principles.

[Westward]

My low opinion is not for the most part aimed at the operational uniformed officers. They don't decide the priorities they just follow orders. Some clearly have personality issues but no doubt most just want to get the job done. What sits badly with me is the culture of hiring graduates virtually straight into management grades and in some cases fast tracking them up the rankings. I have to wonder how many of today's senior officers  have spent large periods of their career on training courses and study groups rather then any real time at the sharp end of police work. My county's chief officer has a huge CV on the website outlining all the things he's done in his "career" including sitting on and chairing or leading various groups and a number of portfolios. There isn't much mention though of what you might call police work. He may be a fine man and an admirable civil servant, but I have no idea what qualifies him to be Chief Constable. 

In my opinion it's high time someone in Westminster took back control of policing and put a stop to the Police Chiefs Council determining priorities and policies. Talking of which, anyone remember ACPO, predecessor to the PCC? Look it up and then ask yourselves if it's proper to have the PCC doing the job we elect a government to do.

[Agriv8]

OK stepping into this one and cautious not to slip up.

The problem as I see it is that the police are expected to cover all the gaps in society and are under funded to do this they are stretched so thinly dealing with the people on the edge of society that know the rules and every trick in the book . 

As a kid growing up in a small village ( was always up to something nothing illegal but defiantly pushing my luck ) got caught one by local bobbie with mate on back of bike giving a Bakie as it was called up here. Got a bit of stick from the local bobbie ( nothing to the clout I got from my mother when I got home - Then another even bigger one from my dad when he got home ).

That and a couple of other instances Taught me that rules ( wether I liked em or not / followed em or not ) were there and police might be watching if I did not. People forget that 

A) police don't make the rules they are just the poor ******* who have to try and enforce them 

B) that they are humans just trying to do a job

C) that in this day and age they have to do a risk assessment to draw there button 

society has changed since I have grown up Expecting the police to sort everything that no one else wants to deal with and then blaming them when its not done very well sorry the police are just stuck between the frying pan and the fire!

 

 

[Walker570]

56 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Whilst I accept the Police are underfunded, they are still the same mix of society as they were many years ago - a mix of excellent, with a few I wouldn't give the time of day.

I will admit to being shocked at the regard with which they are held on this forum. 

oowee is one of the few sticking up for the Police and I am with him on that. I see idiots on TV and out and about with no respect for the Police, but didn't expect to find it on here.

Aside from manpower, I believe the biggest problems are poor leadership and too much paperwork. It needs to be streamlined, so that they can be out and about, rather than tied to a desk. The Philips principle has a lot to answer for.

Gordon you put it in a nutshell.  I know there are some excellent coppers out there who would just like to do the job but when you have one turn round and tell you the 'management' have turned them into social workers you do begin to wonder.  You cannot do away with paperwork what on earth would all of those driving desks have to do. 

Yes, I come from the old school when even my station Chief Superintendent would put on his cap, tuck is swagger stick under his arm and go and walk the streets of Solihull, chatting and gleening information where he could.    The whole system needs a shot in the arm.

[JDog]

I have had very little to do with the Police so I cannot comment on their standards, professionalism etc.

However duel an algorithm that I do not understand a video appeared on my YouTube feed which I attach. The two lads may be considered to be antagonistic but filming police stations is perfectly legal and they were met with an unlikely and embarrassing response from two Police Constables and two CPSOs. The male Officer was so determined to keep his hands in his pockets that he pointed the way out by waving his leg in the general direction.

 

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, JDog said:

I have had very little to do with the Police so I cannot comment on their standards, professionalism etc.

However duel an algorithm that I do not understand a video appeared on my YouTube feed which I attach. The two lads may be considered to be antagonistic but filming police stations is perfectly legal and they were met with an unlikely and embarrassing response from two Police Constables and two CPSOs. The male Officer was so determined to keep his hands in his pockets that he pointed the way out by waving his leg in the general direction.

 

What do you want them to do? 
 

Just highlights the problem with today’s public, out to cause problems, antagonise Police and video it all to put on YouTube. 
 

In the ‘good old days’ that some on here think would be better, those two lads would have been told to clear off, and giving a a good beating if they didn’t. 
 

I imagine if they did that they’d be slammed all over the news and people saying they should be sacked. 
 

The best thing they did was go back into the station and ignore the two complete idiots. 
 

Surprise surprise the two morons then went away. 
 

 

[Scully]

I think ones attitude of the police is mostly down to ones personal experience, and growing up in a small market town my experience wasn’t one to show the police in a positive light.

I knew and know quite a few, and whilst a minority are fine, I wouldn’t trust any of them, and have no respect for most of them whatsoever, and will do my utmost to avoid all contact with them as much as possible. 

It was interesting to see the BEEB report about alleged racist French cops on the news last night, and their apparent attitude towards blacks. If the footage of them handing out beatings is to be believed, they came across as bullies with guns. It came as absolutely no surprise to me at all. 

[AULD YIN]

6 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

What do you want them to do? 
 

Just highlights the problem with today’s public, out to cause problems, antagonise Police and video it all to put on YouTube. 
 

In the ‘good old days’ that some on here think would be better, those two lads would have been told to clear off, and giving a a good beating if they didn’t. 
 

I imagine if they did that they’d be slammed all over the news and people saying they should be sacked. 
 

The best thing they did was go back into the station and ignore the two complete idiots. 
 

Surprise surprise the two morons then went away. 
 

 

Antagonise the police by doing a lawful pursuit (photography in a public area is legal) the police should know this as a memo has been circulated by the police hence the audit showing they are ignorant of the law to the public , its a BIG  police problem , as i see it the 4 morons went back in the station . i have found the police do not like it if you know your rights and have a working knowledge of the law we are just being belligerent .

[Lloyd90]

13 minutes ago, AULD YIN said:

Antagonise the police by doing a lawful pursuit (photography in a public area is legal) the police should know this as a memo has been circulated by the police hence the audit showing they are ignorant of the law to the public , its a BIG  police problem , as i see it the 4 morons went back in the station . i have found the police do not like it if you know your rights and have a working knowledge of the law we are just being belligerent .

 

Yea, but why did they go there? It's not like they just happened to be there is it? They have intentionally gone there to stir up trouble. 

They even rang the bell to get the coppers to come outside. 

 

The coppers should have just ignored them from the off. They'd have gone away sooner. 

 

They are akin to the idiots in America who take a fully loaded assault rifle and and into US Police stations shouting "Dur it's my right to open carry durrr".

I remember seeing a video of the above and believe the Police shot one of them. 

 

 

[AULD YIN]

1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Yea, but why did they go there? It's not like they just happened to be there is it? They have intentionally gone there to stir up trouble. 

They even rang the bell to get the coppers to come outside. 

 

The coppers should have just ignored them from the off. They'd have gone away sooner. 

 

They are akin to the idiots in America who take a fully loaded assault rifle and and into US Police stations shouting "Dur it's my right to open carry durrr".

I remember seeing a video of the above and believe the Police shot one of them. 

 

 

This is the UK Its called an AUDIT , what better way is there to see if the police know the law regarding photography ,clearly shows they do not so maybe a learning process for them ,PHOTOGRAPHY in a public area   is not a crime

[243deer]

My interactions with our police officers differ greatly from many of the opinions being spouted in this thread. I have very regular contact and find them both helpful and courteous. They also give me the overriding impression that they care and I cannot accept that I will have misjudged them all.

We may have more police than in the 60s but then they now have to deal with a drinking culture that ties up most of the available manpower from Friday night through to Sunday morning processing scum that insist on getting drunk in public, fighting and driving their cars. Add in the ridiculous number of road traffic collisions every day caused by speeding motorists on their phones driving beyond their abilities which have to be attended to and it is not surprising that the force is stretched. There has been a massive rise in domsetic violence with everyone being shut in, none of these cases are going to have a 5 minute solution which is why we get the comments about police becoming social workers, they always have been to some extent but never on the scale that our modern high population has produced.

The disrespect that folk are showing to their own society cannot be solved by policing. 

There is milage in the comments about how the police is run and the degree and academic ability needed in order to gain quick promotion which leaves behind the need for common sense and experience. This is not just a failing of the police however, our shooting organisations and wildlife trusts suffer from exactly the same type of career administrators earning far more than their real worth and not really being able to do their job competantly.

[WalkedUp]

I have had many dealings with the police over the years. Merseyside, NWP and GMP have been consistently good, courtesy etc. South Yorkshire were a disgrace but I will not go into it again on PW.

My interactions with police range wildly in the circumstances and even when I’ve been drunk and/or aggrieved they have been professional and kind. 

Examples include a few years ago two scally lads deliberately knocking straight into me thinking they were ten-men. As it was late night and I had partaken in a few post work drinks, I let my ego and sense of righteousness get the better of me. Rather than laugh it off as the infantile indulgence of youth I turned around and collared them. A plain clothes officer appeared from nowhere and put his arm around my shoulder like a drunk friend diffusing the situation, spinning me away from them and flashing his warrant card. He simply said, “I saw this from the start, let me deal with them and you continue with your night”. Quick and efficient I walked on without braking stride it was so smooth. You forget that these officers are there to look out for you even when you are not doing a good job at looking out for yourself. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by WalkedUp

[Westward]

As I've said, there are many operational officers who want to do a fair job of policing. They have a job to do which must be quite harrowing at times and they appear to do it without much complaint. Without doubt a small number whose brains aren't suitably wired, harm the profile of the police generally.

I certainly don't look back to the 50s & 60s with rose tinted spectacles. Back then for every decent, caring, community spirited officer there was at least one more who was as bad or worse than the low life and yobs they confronted. Basically they treated everyone under the age of 25 as one or other out of troublemakers, drug dealers, criminals or some other variety of low life. In those days police patrols, generally by car or noddy Velocette motorbikes hadn't become extinct and even though our group of young people were basically law abiding, we went to some lengths to avoid attracting the attention of the  police as you never knew whether you'd be meeting good cop or bad cop.

But the others who come in with a shiny degree in say criminology or psychology, show little interest in real down and dirty police work, seeing the job primarily as a good career choice - which it is. Salaries which rise rapidly with the virtually endless promotion opportunities, secure employment, numerous study groups etc.,top notch pension scheme, early retirement with plenty of ways to come back on contract or take up consultancy posts outside. Who can blame them? Trouble is, they or their predecessors, are determining how every aspect of policing functions, what the priorities are, how to treat the media, how to treat victims et al. At the same time they develop ever more ways and seek more powers to control people at such things as demonstrations, outdoor events and even village fetes and boot sales. Several times a year I read that the police (Not the government mark you!) have decided that yet another comment about someone's appearance, sexuality, shoe size, etc, etc, is a "Hate Crime".

Last year a pal who lives 2 houses up the lane was accused by someone he'd annoyed, of aiming a red dot rifle sight near her and her new boyfriend. He got a call at work to say the armed response team were in his living room and would he come home. As a solid, long term gun owner who didn't even own a red dot sight and had all the right paperwork and security they went away. He though it was comical having a bunch of people dressed as power rangers drinking his tea and eating his biscuits but, as he pointed out,  if someone burns down your shed or steals your caravan, they can't even be bothered to turn up.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Westward

[ChrisO]

I’m a huge supporter of the uniformed copper, the one who puts his/herself at risk on a daily basis.                                            It’s all too easy to lash out and bleat about mistrust, corruption and a lack of respect, put yourself in the firing line instead of sitting safely behind a keyboard. Sure there’s bad cops, like there are bad bus drivers. The vast majority are top notch people, let down by politicians and the courts.
Then there’s the clowns who claim they watched a YouTube video, where an officer was rude and ever since then, they will have no dealings with them, they’ll protect their own property and family.                                                                                       Do the same whoppers avoid doctors since Harold Shipman was up to no good ?

[AULD YIN]

6 hours ago, ChrisO said:

I’m a huge supporter of the uniformed copper, the one who puts his/herself at risk on a daily basis.                                            It’s all too easy to lash out and bleat about mistrust, corruption and a lack of respect, put yourself in the firing line instead of sitting safely behind a keyboard. Sure there’s bad cops, like there are bad bus drivers. The vast majority are top notch people, let down by politicians and the courts.
Then there’s the clowns who claim they watched a YouTube video, where an officer was rude and ever since then, they will have no dealings with them, they’ll protect their own property and family.                                                                                       Do the same whoppers avoid doctors since Harold Shipman was up to no good ?

Out of the three professions you mention the bus drivers are the most abused by far ,I look at you tube and i dont class myself as a clown ,whoppers is that an english  terminology?

Nicolai Poliakoff

Edited May 21, 2021 by AULD YIN

[ChrisO]

11 hours ago, AULD YIN said:

Out of the three professions you mention the bus drivers are the most abused by far ,I look at you tube and i dont class myself as a clown ,whoppers is that an english  terminology? 
 

Nicolai Poliakoff

Nor did I class you as a clown, quite a few people use YouTube, you don’t have exclusive rights to it.

Yes, a whopper is an English term.

What has the likelihood of being abused at work got to do with anything ?  Are you saying it’s ok for police to be abused, as there are some bad police, but it’s still easier than being a bus driver ? 😂

I mentioned more than three professions by the way.

You win, I give up 😂😂

[AULD YIN]

11 hours ago, ChrisO said:

Nor did I class you as a clown, quite a few people use YouTube, you don’t have exclusive rights to it.

Yes, a whopper is an English term.

What has the likelihood of being abused at work got to do with anything ?  Are you saying it’s ok for police to be abused, as there are some bad police, but it’s still easier than being a bus driver ? 😂

I mentioned more than three professions by the way.

You win, I give up 😂😂

as you say , your a huge supporter of the police what else could i expect from you ,maybe an open mind.

Edited May 22, 2021 by AULD YIN

[ChrisO]

2 hours ago, AULD YIN said:

as you say , your a huge supporter of the police what else could i expect from you ,maybe an open mind.

My mind is fully open.
You’re typing in riddles, good day !

[AULD YIN]

Okay now i am the riddler ,previously i was a clown , you should really join the police force as you are definitely  officer material,

[Zapp]

Take it to personal messages please and stop derailing the thread 

[AULD YIN]

14 minutes ago, Zapp said:

Take it to personal messages please and stop derailing the thread 

Its okay i am finished

[ChrisO]

12 hours ago, AULD YIN said:

Its okay i am finished

😂😂😂

[Scully]

Like I said, experiences colour ones opinions, and mine were coloured from an early age. From double standards, deceit and downright corruption forming much of my youthful experiences. 

I can cite several incidences where membership of a certain society, or knowing someone who was a member, played a part in whether charges were brought, including firearms charges. I have witnessed beatings, and been threatened with the same, as a teenaged lad, and one memorable incident where it was attempted to fit me up for a non existent crime in an attempt to put me off making an official complaint, including a threat to throw me off the town bridge when I insisted on them taking my fingerprints! 😀

It took the intervention of my Dad, whom I eventually made aware of what was going on, who called in to the local station and threatened to dish out some of his own, to bring it to an end. 

I can cite countless incidences of double standards, corruption ( including one sacked copper who eventually ending up working with me to see him over til his pension kicked in! 😀 ) and bullying. I should write a book! 

[clangerman]

anyone unhappy with the vid should trot down camera in hand and post the reception they receive filming the police everyone likes watching a tazer victim dance!