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Gun safe installation dot and dab


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I’m moving house from a nice solid brick wall house to a new build with dot and dab walls. I’ve never fixed anything to dot and dab before but the location I’ve planned is an external wall. 
 

I was either thinking of cutting out the plasterboard and fixing straight to a wall or just using longer anchor bolts and going straight through the dot and dab. 
 

anyone got experience as I need to do it this weekend. 

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4 hours ago, GC1698 said:

I’m moving house from a nice solid brick wall house to a new build with dot and dab walls. I’ve never fixed anything to dot and dab before but the location I’ve planned is an external wall. 
 

I was either thinking of cutting out the plasterboard and fixing straight to a wall or just using longer anchor bolts and going straight through the dot and dab. 
 

anyone got experience as I need to do it this weekend. 

I’d go long bolts through with the addition of spacers to cover the gap between brick work and back of the cabinet. Also depends on The type of fixings you use/buy. Resin filled, expanding plugs etc.  I’ve also seen people fix/anchor a plate to the wall then bolt to that. As long as it’s solid and the cabinet is quality you should be fine. You could always run it by your FEO as well for clarity. Some are fussy others more realistic 

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Just done mine and used concrete bolts and fastened it higher then the skirting.

Spacing it away from the skirting will leave a gap which I know my feo would not allow as it gives somewhere to lever it off.

I also prefer it fastened flush to the wall without spacers because they would just sink into the plasterboard, no spacers mean the whole of the back of the cabinet is flat to the wall.

Drill 8mm hole for 10mm bolt, screwfix sell them and so does my local gunshop for fastening the cabinets. Glad to see them selling them as it was what I had already used for mine

Rawlplug LX Concrete Screwbolts x 75mm 10 Pack | Concrete Bolts |  Screwfix.com

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17 minutes ago, mgsontour said:

As above but remember to add the skirting board in your measurements

agreed, i built a marine ply plinth to sit the cabinet on. bolted that to the floor, then also bolted through the bottom of the cabinet into the 1' ply. total overkill but FEO's love that **** lol

 

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That is ok as long as the block work behind the dot and dab is not thermalise light weight block which are very soft and the fixings may just pull out I would try fixing to the floor or my friend had the same issue and put his up into the lift where you will have bare bock work and can fix into concrete block hope this helps

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28 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

I would thin your FEO will have his/her opinions on this so why not ask there first?

because if they're anything like Cheshire FEO's 1, you cant contact them due to CV19, 2, they removed the number from the website because of CV19, oh and 3, Because of CV19 lol. 

 

in normal circumstances, as i mentioned above you should speak to your friendly neighbourhood FEO

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Is it your 'forever' home?  Or at least for the forseeable?  Cut the bluddy skirting with a multitool and be done with it. Keep the off cut and you can always re-attach, blending in the join with deco caulk and repaint.  New build probably using MDF skirting, so far more forgiving than real wood.

I'd avoid chopping the plasterboard out, the wall will in all likelihood be thermalite blocks behind anyway.  Resin in some studs (available from Toolstation relatively cheaply).  Be fastidious about removing drilling dust though.  Get a small bit of tube, tape to vacuum cleaner to poke in the hole and really remove any loose debris.

Remember, dot-n-dab on a new build should only have a gap of 10 mm or so behind it, not a mahoosive gap like you'd see on an old building where it's (generally) used to even out a shonky old wall.

2 hours ago, 39TDS said:

Drill 8mm hole for 10mm bolt, screwfix sell them and so does my local gunshop for fastening the cabinets. Glad to see them selling them as it was what I had already used for mine

Rawlplug LX Concrete Screwbolts x 75mm 10 Pack | Concrete Bolts |  Screwfix.com

These things are great in brick/masonary/concrete, wouldn't use them for dot-n-dab though!  You'll likely create a giant punch-tool to make a gun-cabinet-sized hole in your plaster.

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1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

These things are great in brick/masonary/concrete, wouldn't use them for dot-n-dab though!  You'll likely create a giant punch-tool to make a gun-cabinet-sized hole in your plaster.

If that does happen I will just do them up a bit more. :)

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21 minutes ago, 39TDS said:

If that does happen I will just do them up a bit more.

Apparently, the ex's new chap tried this when they moved into their new-ish-build flat.  In the end he had to completely remove the gun cabinet and plaster, scrape off the bits of dot-n-dab so the damn thing could be secured properly.

Chemical anchors I think.  Or dedicated fixings fischer sells.

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Ive just done mine.. New breeze blocks are soft and crumbley. Tried 3 times with different sizes and type of anchors non worked, the anchors just spun as they tightened. Just get some 10mm threaded bar. Cut to length. Remove a section of skirting line up on plaster board. Mark holes drill 11 to 12 mm hole through plaster board and about 3 inch into the breeze block. Fill with resin and screw bolt into resin. Leave to set for an hour and then bolt safe to wall. Did mine and wall will fall down before bolts pull out

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Thanks for all the advice. I have some of the 10m rawl bolts but going to try the concrete bolts first. If the first one doesn’t work, use the rawl bolts if they don’t work then it’s the threaded bar. 
 

not really fussed if it looks a state, the full wall is getting covered with wardrobes to hide the safe. 
 

it is thermalite block though. 

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8 hours ago, GC1698 said:

Thanks for all the advice. I have some of the 10m rawl bolts but going to try the concrete bolts first. If the first one doesn’t work, use the rawl bolts if they don’t work then it’s the threaded bar. 
 

not really fussed if it looks a state, the full wall is getting covered with wardrobes to hide the safe. 
 

it is thermalite block though. 

You’ll need to use the threaded bar with resin option mate. 
 

plenty of guides. Measure twice. Put safe in situ mark holes, drill pilot holes through cabinet. Drill full size hole. Resin set bar. Put cabinet back whilst resin still setting would be my advice until dry. Then and only the tighten it up. 

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Ok, there’s too many people saying to do this to not to, if that makes sense. 
 

Never done or know anyone who’s done this so would this threaded bar but suitable and does it come with the fixings?

https://www.bs8-firewall.toolstation.com/fischer-ftr-m-threaded-stud/p52924
 

I've only got a ****ty hacksaw to cut through this, won’t need anything higher duty will I?

Is this the resin I need?

https://www.bs8-firewall.toolstation.com/everbuild-anchorset-green-300-chemical-anchor/p11337

 

cheers for the help

 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, GC1698 said:

Ok, there’s too many people saying to do this to not to, if that makes sense. 
 

Never done or know anyone who’s done this so would this threaded bar but suitable and does it come with the fixings?

https://www.bs8-firewall.toolstation.com/fischer-ftr-m-threaded-stud/p52924
 

I've only got a ****ty hacksaw to cut through this, won’t need anything higher duty will I?

Is this the resin I need?

https://www.bs8-firewall.toolstation.com/everbuild-anchorset-green-300-chemical-anchor/p11337

 

cheers for the help

 

Hi fella, those two items would suit your needs, but I'd use the Rawlplug R-KER 11 Resin. Whichever resin you choose, make sure the resin and hardener mix before applying to the holes. Also, resin sets very quickly in the warm 😉

The M10 bolts would be best, being 130mm long. They come with the nuts and washers. Just make sure these are long enough to pass at least 75mm into the blocks and still leave enough thread to bolt your cabinet.

Drill into the blocks with an old 12mm steel drill bit on normal drill setting,,,, NOT hammer setting ! Mark your drill bit to the desired depth with a black marker pen and drill very carefully so as not to go right through to the cavity ! Make sure you get all the dust out of the holes,,,, as above, use a 10mm piece of plastic pipe taped to your hoover nozzle. Just passing the nozzle over the holes will not remove all the dust.

When inserting the studs into the resin, give them a slight twist.

Good luck 👍

Edited by JKD
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To add to the above.

Make sure your holes are aligned before chemical fixing them and also but a can of ‘air duster’ or bottle brush to clean out the holes prior to injecting the resin.

Regarding making sure it’s mixed. Snip of the metal sealing ring in the resin tube, attached nozzle and pump out the resin until it’s fully mixed in the spiral of the nozzle and is coming out a consistent grey colour.

Having fitted many cabinets in the past using a rang of rawl bolts, expanding bolts and coach bolts. I don’t use anything but resin these days due to it not posing the risk of expansion splitting bricks/blocks or spinning.

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One very simple way of reinforcing the dot and dab wall is to mix up some plaster board adhesive, the type you use for the dabs. Drill a series of holes just inside the outline of the cabinet and inject the adhesive between the board and concrete block wall, using a mortar gun. 
Also just drill through the plasterboard where the bolt fixings are to be and inject the adhesive at these locations before drilling the holes in the blocks.

Let the adhesive go off overnight.
The adhesive will set rock hard and will enable you to get a really good fix.

 

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If it’s secure when your feo comes to check , as in if he pulls and prods it it doesn’t move and there’s no gap to the back of it some Scrote could put a pry bar in to then I think you will be fine , they may ask about fixings but the word “ bolt “ is normally good enough 

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