Help identify this SxS

[Clay cracker]

I have recently purchased this SxS 16 bore, Its a 2 1/2" chambered boxlock ejector with 3rd bite cross bolt, cocking indicators and a scalloped action. It has a horn buttplate, horn grip cap and horn in lay where a tear drop normally is. I cant find a manufacturer mark stamped anywhere upon it, could anyone identify it off of any of the remaining original proof marks? Thank you Clay Cracker. 

[Clay cracker]

[ditchman]

looks german or European to me............

[Scully]

Can’t help I’m afraid, but it looks very nice. 
If I had to take a guess I’d agree with Ditchmans first suggestion; the Germans do like deep engraving. 

[enfieldspares]

29 minutes ago, ditchman said:

Looks German or European to me............

Or from those areas that were once part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire...Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Etc.. Distinctly Central European market even if made elsewhere. That letter "S" on each barrel...that's German Proof.

Edited September 18, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Smokersmith]

There appears to be some writing I can’t make out on the barrels about an inch from the breech … any clues there?

Agree it looks continental.

[Vince Green]

Elderkins used to import a lot of 16bore shotguns from Europe and advertise them in shooting times

[Clay cracker]

On top of the barrels is stamped rauchlos beschossen which is to do with german nitro proof as wells as something in german to do with the type of steel the barrels are constructed out of. As others have stated there are other german proof marks but nothing thats helped me date it or identify it to a manufacturer. 

[ditchman]

does it have english proof marks ?............if it dosnt it may be booty from the 2nd world war brought home as a trophy,,,,,,,,,,i think all herman goerings shotguns and rifles were "liberated" and found themselves a new home in the west

 

EDIT..........i can see BNP stamped on it......if you take it apart you may find someone (the maker) has scratched his initials inside....sometimes not always

Edited September 18, 2021 by ditchman

[Clay cracker]

I believe it only has british proof as the barrels have been sleeved as such, some of the proof marks have been scrubbed out on the flats but some still remain.

[reindeer]

The engraving style and the pistol grip cap indicate it is of Austrian origine, possibly Ferlach. For a Ferlach made gun it is not very high grade though. 

[Zapp]

Interesting gun and comments 👍

[Stonepark]

What does the marking  and lettering on top of the barrels say, looks like proof or makers marks, possibly?

[Clay cracker]

On top of the barrels is stamped rauchlos beschossen which is to do with german nitro proof, there is also a symbol and writing which i cant recall from memory but is to do with the type of steel the barrels are constructed out of. 

7 hours ago, Stonepark said:

What does the marking  and lettering on top of the barrels say, looks like proof or makers marks, possibly?

 

[Clay cracker]

[London Best]

If that’s not German, I’m a Dutchman!

[ditchman]

having a look at the latest pics i can just see the word sleeved...........i cannot for the life of me see the join....think it has been done very well..............

i think when a gun is sleeved...the makers name and info has to be removed .....unless it has been done buy the original maker....so this would account for the difficulty of identification

[Walker570]

13 hours ago, ditchman said:

looks german or European to me............

Yep, the engraving is identical to much of the engraving  from that region. 

[Clay cracker]

20 minutes ago, ditchman said:

having a look at the latest pics i can just see the word sleeved...........i cannot for the life of me see the join....think it has been done very well..............

i think when a gun is sleeved...the makers name and info has to be removed .....unless it has been done buy the original maker....so this would account for the difficulty of identification

If it wasn’t stamped sleeved on the sides of the barrels i highly doubt anyone would notice that its been sleeved the join is practically invisible to my eye. I think whomever did the work they did a good job of it, The balance is spot on and comes in on the scale at 6 pound and 3 ounces. 

[Walker570]

You obviously don't like it....I'll take it off you to save you any further worry............................

Nah!  Just jesting.  It looks like a nice old gun and still more than capable of providing some enjoyment. Prior to my going 410 for most things I shot a 16 gauge and do still take it out occasionally and never felt under gunned.

[Clay cracker]

10 hours ago, Walker570 said:

You obviously don't like it....I'll take it off you to save you any further worry............................

Nah!  Just jesting.  It looks like a nice old gun and still more than capable of providing some enjoyment. Prior to my going 410 for most things I shot a 16 gauge and do still take it out occasionally and never felt under gunned.

I feel the 16 is the optimal bore if wanting lighter carry, faster handling yet something that dosent feel like a broom handle in the hands. 

 

Also the barrels are stamped as prima fluss stahl which is the type of steel they were made of. 

[steve s×s]

11 hours ago, London Best said:

If that’s not German, I’m a Dutchman!

London van best😂

[Old Boggy]

There is an almost identical 16 bore on Guntrader (same type of engraving if not identical) down as an Anton Sodia of Ferlach Austria. The only apparent difference is a palm swell on the stock.

OB

[Gunman]

German , sleeved late 60's early 70,s as it has sleeved stamped on the barrels .There was a bit of controversy about removing the original name for the barrels ,this was mainly due to the influence of the London trade on the London proof house , but it was not for long .As this was an imported gun no one would have bothered anyway .

Many of these guns did not bear names of makers ,often the name of the seller ,but it may have some ID mark if you can find it .The Americans frequently referred to these as " Guild Guns " as there were several cooperatives who produced guns for dealers rather than named makers .

The proof marks on the action are pre WW2 which ceased to be reconised in 1939 with the out break of war and not re recognised till 1984 .Some guns made during the Nazi period had proof marks with swastikas so I assume this was  pre 1930  .

[Walker570]

21 hours ago, Clay cracker said:

I feel the 16 is the optimal bore if wanting lighter carry, faster handling yet something that dosent feel like a broom handle in the hands. 

 

Also the barrels are stamped as prima fluss stahl which is the type of steel they were made of. 

I have shot a fair few geese and a whole truck full of ducks with my 1900s Army & Navy 16 which I had nitroproofed as it was only black powder when I acquired it. Put it in the pattern at ensible ranges and the sixteen will equal the twelve any day unless your a willy wagger and need to shoot at 75-80yrd birds and I don't thank you.