Will We Ever See the Swamp Drained (Owen Paterson)

[Vince Green]

7

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Tories - a sleazy bunch.

Labour - anti semites, criminals.

Lib Debs - halfwits.

Greens - bigger halfwits.

Sadly you have to choose. Do you go for the sleazy bunch, who got us out of the EU and are passable economists or the Jewish hating, bankrupt the country lot? The rest aren't even worth a mention.

Labour MPs have been openly paid by (politely called sponsored by) trade unions to lobby for and vote for what ever the union told them to vote for.

That's been going on for near on a century now. Where is the difference?

They can't do that and complain about Tory MPs doing the same?

[JohnfromUK]

28 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Labour MPs have been openly paid by (politely called sponsored by) trade unions to lobby for and vote for what ever the union told them to vote for.

Yes, no less that 226 of them in 2015 had 'ties' to the Unions. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11609545/Growing-share-of-Labour-MPs-have-union-links.html

[Mungler]

As has been mentioned, the whole Labour Party is propped up by lobbyist unions and it’s same meat different gravy.

To quote Nick Ferrari, ‘if I was offered the PM’s job I’d refuse it because I’m not prepared to take that massive pay cut’.

That is the real world. 

I laugh when the BBC role out the usual opposition Marxists claiming that an MP’s salary is a King’s ransom at £80k pa and as such they don’t need second jobs or other sources of income, and then they slip in the national salary average of £25k pa. and it’s all designed to stir up envy and jealousy.

Back in the real world if you want bright and effective people with a high end skill set it costs a lot more than an MP’s salary.

For example, a trainee solicitor (22 / 23 years of age) working (hard) at a large London firm will be on over £100k starting salary.

 

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, Mungler said:

For example, a trainee solicitor (22 / 23 years of age) working (hard) at a large London firm will be on over £100k starting salary.

And an experienced lawyer (for example he might be called something like Geoffrey Cox) will be very much more - experienced people who are good at what they do are expensive - and I assume GC is good.  It has long been known that he is one of the 'big earners' in Parliament  and will no doubt not come as a surprise to his constituents who re-elected him with a majority of near 25,000.  That rarher indicates that they are not that upset about how he represents them.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

As has been mentioned, the whole Labour Party is propped up by lobbyist unions and it’s same meat different gravy.

To quote Nick Ferrari, ‘if I was offered the PM’s job I’d refuse it because I’m not prepared to take that massive pay cut’.

That is the real world. 

I laugh when the BBC role out the usual opposition Marxists claiming that an MP’s salary is a King’s ransom at £80k pa and as such they don’t need second jobs or other sources of income, and then they slip in the national salary average of £25k pa. and it’s all designed to stir up envy and jealousy.

Back in the real world if you want bright and effective people with a high end skill set it costs a lot more than an MP’s salary.

For example, a trainee solicitor (22 / 23 years of age) working (hard) at a large London firm will be on over £100k starting salary.

None of which justifies the second job syndrome!

[Mungler]

52 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

None of which justifies the second job syndrome!

It sort of does. There should be a proper pay packet, say £350k (and I know all the Socialist Worker lot will be choking at the notion) and a total and absolute total ban on 3rd party earnings, promotion or lobbying then I could get behind that. 

I am totally realistic with what £80k pa gets you in the real world suit wearing job market, and the answer is ‘nothing special’. It wouldn’t get you a lawyer, a GP, a dentist, a surveyor or an estate agent.

Indeed, we pay our MPs less than estate agents and we lose the plot when they look for a consultancy / additional earner.

Indeed, on the subject of corruption and additional earners…. I like sunshine and clear blue skies and I am an MP and I as a matter of routine I regularly petition Parliament for there to be more sunshine with blue skies. A sunshine and blue sky manufacturer sees how passionate I am about sunshine and blue skies and says ‘have £50k a year to help out with what you’re doing’. I declare all of this, am I corrupt?
 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 minutes ago, Mungler said:

It sort of does. There should be a proper pay packet, say £350k (and I know all the Socialist Worker lot will be choking at the notion) and a total and absolute total ban on 3rd party earnings, promotion or lobbying then I could get behind that. 

I am totally realistic with what £80k pa gets you in the real world suit wearing job market, and the answer is ‘nothing special’. It wouldn’t get you a lawyer, a GP, a dentist, a surveyor or an estate agent.

Indeed, we pay our MPs less than estate agents and we lose the plot when they look for a consultancy / additional earner.

Indeed, on the subject of corruption and additional earners…. I like sunshine and clear blue skies and I am an MP and I as a matter of routine I regularly petition Parliament for there to be more sunshine with blue skies. A sunshine and blue sky manufacturer sees how passionate I am about sunshine and blue skies and says ‘have £50k a year to help out with what you’re doing’. I declare all of this, am I corrupt?

Not corrupt, but far from honourable too.

Start at £250k and see who turns up for the job. With pain of death if found abusing the system. 

Update and tighten up the tax avoidance industry.

 

Unfortunately I cannot see anything happening to improve the situation any time soon!

[12gauge82]

I don't understand why people feel the only options for voting is either Labour or the Conservatives, if we don't change that, nothing will ever change, we only got a say on brexit because ukip threatened the cons. 

I'll vote any party fronted by farage, the way I see it there's little to loose, he'll either do well, or he won't, in which case I'd vote another ineffective party in instead, 4 years of farage couldn't possibly be worse than the likes of Blair and yet we voted that clown in. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I don't understand why people feel the only options for voting is either Labour or the Conservatives, if we don't change that, nothing will ever change, we only got a say on brexit because ukip threatened the cons. 

I'll vote any party fronted by farage, the way I see it there's little to loose, he'll either do well, or he won't, in which case I'd vote another ineffective party in instead, 4 years of farage couldn't possibly be worse than the likes of Blair and yet we voted that clown in. 

Because there is only one party at the moment, not even the two on your list.

[JohnfromUK]

11 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'll vote any party fronted by farage

The thing is - Farage is and has always been a 'one man band'.  The band had one tune - Brexit, which was achieved (after a fashion anyway).

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Because there is only one party at the moment, not even the two on your list.

I get that but there was plenty of time before that. 

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

The thing is - Farage is and has always been a 'one man band'.  The band had one tune - Brexit, which was achieved (after a fashion anyway).

I'm not sure he is, I've been listening to him on GB news and he has alot to offer on many issues this country has in my opinion. 

Although I don't think Boris has done bad, it's the issues that are too hot to handle that need dealing with, things like illegal immigration, getting tough with France, the cons won't do it because they're difficult to deal with and no other party is offering credible alternatives. 

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm not sure he is, I've been listening to him on GB news and he has alot to offer on many issues this country has in my opinion. 

By "one man band", I mean that he never really formed a party as in a 'team'.  It was always NF and some almost anonymous hangers on.  No one else in UKIP ever had any significant standing.  I don't know whether this was a character fault in Farage or what ....... but he doesn't seem to be able to delegate/form a party 'front bench'.  I'm not against him at all - I have respect for him, but can't see him ever being anything other than a 'loner'.  You can't have a 1 man government.

[scolopax]

Great shame about Owen Patterson, he is a great supporter of field sports

 

and MP’s are vastly underpaid,   £80K is not a big salary these days, a healthy salary yes, but not big money

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

None of which justifies the second job syndrome!

I don't agree. MPs must be people with a bit of  gritty experience of life and ideally able to bring more than just another bum on a seat to the work of the house.

What ever your politics, its hard to not see that many conservative MPs are of a much higher calibre than their opponents on the other side of the house. They are people with careers outside their work as an MP and they are keeping them ticking over because they know that one day they will return to them. Doctors, Lawyers, accountants etc

Now look on the Labour front Benches, Angela Raynor, not a GCSE to her name. A former worker in a care home she is bought and paid for by the unions. If she loses her seat what is she going back to?

Liz Kendall, went to Cambridge, rich parents but never had a proper job in her life. Probably her greatest life skill is knowing when to keep her mouth shut. Which is what she is doing now.

[henry d]

51 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

By "one man band", I mean that he never really formed a party as in a 'team'.  It was always NF and some almost anonymous hangers on.  No one else in UKIP ever had any significant standing.  I don't know whether this was a character fault in Farage or what ....... but he doesn't seem to be able to delegate/form a party 'front bench'.  I'm not against him at all - I have respect for him, but can't see him ever being anything other than a 'loner'.  You can't have a 1 man government.

You do the man a real disservice he had loads of support from the likes of Mincher and Parkin, they were far from hangers on 😜

[Vince Green]

Just now, scolopax said:

Great shame about Owen Patterson, he is a great supporter of field sports

 

and MP’s are vastly underpaid,   £80K is not a big salary these days, a healthy salary yes, but not big money

£80 K plus expenses, dont forget the expenses

[enfieldspares]

9 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

According to Sky News this morning over 90 Tory MP's have second jobs, the most odious snob of them all being Andrew Mitchell.  A firm Owen Patterson lobbied for got a £600 million Covid related Government contract. 

Which is odd Mitchell being a snob. As I once said on a radio phone in when he allegedly swore at police manning the Downing Street gates. He may have been an officer but as it was in the Royal Tank Regiment it was certainly not at all required, for that, that he be a gentleman as well.

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

By "one man band", I mean that he never really formed a party as in a 'team'.  It was always NF and some almost anonymous hangers on.  No one else in UKIP ever had any significant standing.  I don't know whether this was a character fault in Farage or what ....... but he doesn't seem to be able to delegate/form a party 'front bench'.  I'm not against him at all - I have respect for him, but can't see him ever being anything other than a 'loner'.  You can't have a 1 man government.

Sorry, I get your point and your right, in fact farage left ukip as they had become toxic with some rather unsavoury people and policy's. 

I'm a big Jacob Rees mogg fan to, I'd like to see a select few like the above get together and form a party, see what they could do. 

[discobob]

18 hours ago, Vince Green said:

£80 K plus expenses, dont forget the expenses

Plus the lift up for cabinet members - sitting on committees etc....

 

I enjoyed that film "Dave" - where a guy stands in for the President who then has a stroke while servicing his mistress - and then goes on to do a pretty good job of being the president!!

 

[Saltings]

polaritons are as only good as their last  ***** up  an entire career can be wiped out in a heart beat  bu the media   

Edited November 12, 2021 by Saltings

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I see the latest small revelation is that 14 Tory MPS amongst many are apparently accepting help with their rent/mortgage costs, but these 14 have been found to be renting the property out!

DOUBLE STANDARDS doesn't quite cover it.

[old man]

5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I see the latest small revelation is that 14 Tory MPS amongst many are apparently accepting help with their rent/mortgage costs, but these 14 have been found to be renting the property out!

DOUBLE STANDARDS doesn't quite cover it.

Sadly, what do we really expect? 

Vile and vacuous doesn't cover it as a large %age of kids are known to be below the breadline?

[oowee]

On 09/11/2021 at 21:46, enfieldspares said:

Which is odd Mitchell being a snob. As I once said on a radio phone in when he allegedly swore at police manning the Downing Street gates. He may have been an officer but as it was in the Royal Tank Regiment it was certainly not at all required, for that, that he be a gentleman as well.

Cavalry is the epitome of snobbery. 

On 09/11/2021 at 21:52, 12gauge82 said:

 

I'm a big Jacob Rees mogg fan to, I'd like to see a select few like the above get together and form a party, see what they could do. 

The man's a complete **** even if he is my neighbour. 

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Cavalry is the epitome of snobbery. 

The man's a complete **** even if he is my neighbour. 

😂😂😂👍

To each their own. 

[ditchman]

On 09/11/2021 at 19:30, JohnfromUK said:

The thing is - Farage is and has always been a 'one man band'.  The band had one tune - Brexit, which was achieved (after a fashion anyway).

dont think farage will ever enter parliament...........but i think he will be a king maker.....