Unwanted shotguns.

[Graham M]

50 minutes ago, Scully said:

A mate puts HP steel through an old Gunmark Sabel? sxs when we go ferreting. I think it’s tightest barrel is 1/2. No idea of chambering. 

Can't help but think he is playing Russian roulette. Standard Steel yes but High Performance Steel; I think he is asking for trouble somewhere down the line

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Graham M

[London Best]

15 minutes ago, Scully said:

A mate puts HP steel through an old Gunmark Sabel? sxs when we go ferreting. I think it’s tightest barrel is 1/2. No idea of chambering. 

Who on earth would dream of using HP steel cartridges to shoot ferreted rabbits? Is he nuts?

[Old farrier]

48 minutes ago, London Best said:

Absolutely not!

I will shoot lead whilst it is legal to do so.

Regarding chokes, out of eight shotguns only one has a barrel tighter than quarter choke and that is only choked at .015 inch or about 3/8 choke.

Why not ? 
your on the other side to me I far prefer choke in a gun I don’t have anything slacker than a tight 1/4 

most being 1/2 and 3/4 

23 minutes ago, Scully said:

A mate puts HP steel through an old Gunmark Sabel? sxs when we go ferreting. I think it’s tightest barrel is 1/2. No idea of chambering. 

I’m sure he does next time you shoot with him ask him if he would be happy firing it through a gun he had paid ten thousand pounds for 

[London Best]

5 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Why not ? 
your on the other side to me I far prefer choke in a gun I don’t have anything slacker than a tight 1/4 

most being 1/2 and 3/4 

 

When I was about 16/17 I had the chokes opened right out on a gun that was 1/2 and full. It absolutely transformed my shooting at the time and I have never had a tight gun since. I can’t tell any difference in effective range, except on sitting pigeons at roosting time. But I don’t get hung up on it.  I find open chokes work perfectly well, even on Welsh pheasants, and are much superior on hedge-hopping partridges.
 

For choice I would always choose imp cyl / quarter. 

[Graham M]

Grand Prix Traditional steel Pro Eco

This is Eley Hawk’s latest, market-leading innovation which blends tradition with cutting edge technology. Featuring Eley Hawk’s exclusive fully bio-degradable Pro Eco Wad, the Grand Prix Traditional Steel Pro Eco opens up shooting a standard steel load in traditional, nitro-proofed guns, meaning that a future remains for old English shotguns. 

“Having fired a couple of boxes through my Lancaster, I conducted an almost forensic examination for any signs of damage and found none. I was also impressed with the clean burn of the powder, which left little or no fouling… Armed with a belt full of these, I now have the confidence to use steel cartridges in my 112-year-old gun. Not only has my gun been given an extension to its useful life, but I feel better for knowing that I will not be depositing several pounds of a poisonous heavy metal onto the Shropshire countryside each season.” ~ Bill Harriman, BASC Director of Firearms

The Grand Prix Traditional Steel is loaded in a 30 gram 4 shot and comes in the iconic Grand Prix orange case. To check if your gun is suitable for steel shot please check the British Proof House Equivalency Table or consult your local gunsmith

 

I see Bill Harriman has jumped on the eco bandwagon. Still when the piper calls the tune..................

 

 

[Scully]

57 minutes ago, Graham M said:

Can't help but think he is playing Russian roulette. Standard Steel yes but High Performance Steel; I think he is asking for trouble somewhere down the line

 

Possibly. It’s up to him I suppose.
As I’ve often mentioned, I’ve put HP steel through many an old nitro proofed shotgun. 

50 minutes ago, London Best said:

Who on earth would dream of using HP steel cartridges to shoot ferreted rabbits? Is he nuts?

Because he can? He takes most of them for ferret and raptor food, so he doesn’t like to use lead. 
They’re certainly humane. 🙂

[Scully]

44 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

 

I’m sure he does next time you shoot with him ask him if he would be happy firing it through a gun he had paid ten thousand pounds for 

🙂I doubt he’d be ferreting rabbits with a 10 grand shotgun, but a modern nitro proofed 10 grand shotgun should be perfectly capable of shooting HP steel, should it not? 
People are sending shotguns worth a lot less for steel shot proofing, thereby proving they needn’t have! Couldn’t make it up could you! 

31 minutes ago, Graham M said:

Grand Prix Traditional steel Pro Eco

This is Eley Hawk’s latest, market-leading innovation which blends tradition with cutting edge technology. Featuring Eley Hawk’s exclusive fully bio-degradable Pro Eco Wad, the Grand Prix Traditional Steel Pro Eco opens up shooting a standard steel load in traditional, nitro-proofed guns, meaning that a future remains for old English shotguns. 

“Having fired a couple of boxes through my Lancaster, I conducted an almost forensic examination for any signs of damage and found none. I was also impressed with the clean burn of the powder, which left little or no fouling… Armed with a belt full of these, I now have the confidence to use steel cartridges in my 112-year-old gun. Not only has my gun been given an extension to its useful life, but I feel better for knowing that I will not be depositing several pounds of a poisonous heavy metal onto the Shropshire countryside each season.” ~ Bill Harriman, BASC Director of Firearms

The Grand Prix Traditional Steel is loaded in a 30 gram 4 shot and comes in the iconic Grand Prix orange case. To check if your gun is suitable for steel shot please check the British Proof House Equivalency Table or consult your local gunsmith

 

I see Bill Harriman has jumped on the eco bandwagon. Still when the piper calls the tune..................

 

 

Sounds like a brand endorsed advert…..oh, hang on a minute! 🙂

[Old farrier]

53 minutes ago, Scully said:

🙂I doubt he’d be ferreting rabbits with a 10 grand shotgun, but a modern nitro proofed 10 grand shotgun should be perfectly capable of shooting HP steel, should it not? 
People are sending shotguns worth a lot less for steel shot proofing, thereby proving they needn’t have! Couldn’t make it up could you! 

Sounds like a brand endorsed advert…..oh, hang on a minute! 🙂

I’m sure a modern one would 

however there’s plenty of older expensive ones out there 

1 hour ago, London Best said:

When I was about 16/17 I had the chokes opened right out on a gun that was 1/2 and full. It absolutely transformed my shooting at the time and I have never had a tight gun since. I can’t tell any difference in effective range, except on sitting pigeons at roosting time. But I don’t get hung up on it.  I find open chokes work perfectly well, even on Welsh pheasants, and are much superior on hedge-hopping partridges.
 

For choice I would always choose imp cyl / quarter. 

do you think you will still be able to get a improved cylinder pattern with steel?

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

I’m sure a modern one would 

however there’s plenty of older expensive ones out there 

 

There’s plenty of older cheaper ones too, all capable of handling steel shot. They wouldn’t be passing steel shot proofing otherwise. 

[Old farrier]

40 minutes ago, Scully said:

There’s plenty of older cheaper ones too, all capable of handling steel shot. They wouldn’t be passing steel shot proofing otherwise. 

Are there any figures available on the amount that fail ?

[Scully]

5 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Are there any figures available on the amount that fail ?

I have no idea to be honest, but I think it would be common knowledge by now if it were a common issue. 
There are examples of old guns on GT which have been steel shot proofed.

As far as I’m aware the actual method of the integrity of shotgun barrel manufacturing hasn’t changed since barrels were first proofed for nitro, yet those same barrels are passing steel shot proofing.

Are barrels proofed for steel shot, made any differently than those proofed for nitro, apart from being proofed at a higher pressure? If not, then it stands to reason that a nitro proofed barrel is capable of handling steel. Isn’t that logical? 
 

[harkom]

3 hours ago, Scully said:

A mate puts HP steel through an old Gunmark Sabel? sxs when we go ferreting. I think it’s tightest barrel is 1/2. No idea of chambering. 

Hmmm..??  Sounds rather like a high risk situation for ricochets?

[Old farrier]

32 minutes ago, Scully said:

I have no idea to be honest, but I think it would be common knowledge by now if it were a common issue. 
There are examples of old guns on GT which have been steel shot proofed.

As far as I’m aware the actual method of the integrity of shotgun barrel manufacturing hasn’t changed since barrels were first proofed for nitro, yet those same barrels are passing steel shot proofing.

Are barrels proofed for steel shot, made any differently than those proofed for nitro, apart from being proofed at a higher pressure? If not, then it stands to reason that a nitro proofed barrel is capable of handling steel. Isn’t that logical? 
 

I fully understand all of what you say 

but currently anything not proof for steel is considered virtually worthless on a trade in hence the OP starting the thread maybe it’s just a ploy by the dealers or anyone buying them to get them cheaper or maybe a ploy by the proof houses 

either way looking at the market prices on good secondhand guns has plummeted 

maybe with future cartridge development it will go back up 

[Scully]

17 minutes ago, harkom said:

Hmmm..??  Sounds rather like a high risk situation for ricochets?

Anyone concerned about ricochets could wear shooting glasses if they wanted to. It isn’t something any of us have given much thought to really. 
Steel really doesn’t take any prisoners at these sort of ranges, and if the result is raptor bound then there’s no alternatives really, and even more so if lead does eventually go completely, with no exceptions. 

[Scully]

21 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

I fully understand all of what you say 

but currently anything not proof for steel is considered virtually worthless on a trade in hence the OP starting the thread maybe it’s just a ploy by the dealers or anyone buying them to get them cheaper or maybe a ploy by the proof houses 

either way looking at the market prices on good secondhand guns has plummeted 

maybe with future cartridge development it will go back up 

I think dealers are capitalising on the confusion surrounding steel shot in non steel shot proofed guns and the lack of confidence it has created. 
They will knock you down on trade in prices for nitro only proofed guns, but there is no discount offered if wanting to buy one. Some won’t even entertain partxing one, yet will happily sell you one, and again, at no discount for its lack of steel shot proofing! Some are sending off old classics for steel shot proofing and then selling at premium prices…..what does that tell you?! 
The Browning Crown isn’t steel shot proofed as far as I know, yet it’s a relatively new, and expensive gun! 
The only guns I have really observed a decrease in value is the average sxs, especially  non ejectors, but that’s been a trend for some time. 
 

[London Best]

14 minutes ago, Scully said:

I think dealers are capitalising on the confusion surrounding steel shot in non steel shot proofed guns 
 

My experience of most gun dealers is that they will be amongst the most confused.

[marsh man]

I often see gun stocks on Ebay going for what I would consider silly money , most of these are either light lamps or suitable to be turned into one , hammer ones seem to make the most money which can be as high as £100 while a hammerless is £50 upwards , problem is you would need the paperwork to say it have been deactivated , this could work out more than the asking price of what you are trying to sell , I am sure some of the gun shops have cottoned on to this and possibly off loaded some .

So , is there a way out by doing it yourself , or a cheaper way around it rather than having your guns destroyed or going in the melting pot ?

 

[keeper96]

Where are these racks of cheap unwanted English guns people talk about? 
I keep looking for them to buy but they all seem to be holding strong money!

[Stonepark]

On 28/11/2021 at 15:38, London Best said:

All nitro proof guns are suitable for standard steel, just not high performance.  
The only issue is finding 2 1/2 inch steel cartridges. Now we have Eley Grand Prix Steel.  
I have shot ducks/geese with steel shot for the last twenty years through a standard nitro proof 2 3/4 inch (70mm) Spanish gun with no ill effects.

Lyalvale are now also doing 65mm Ultimate Steel 30g

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Stonepark said:

Lyalvale are now also doing 65mm Ultimate Steel 30g

Thank you Sir. I tried to buy the Grand Prix on Monday but the dealer had been unable to source. I put a slab on back order to try....eventually.

[Scully]

13 hours ago, keeper96 said:

Where are these racks of cheap unwanted English guns people talk about? 
I keep looking for them to buy but they all seem to be holding strong money!

Wabbitbosher often has a few. 

[team tractor]

 

I’ve had this on my phone a while . Hope it helps .

 

 

 

[enfieldspares]

Best idea for the OP might be to post pictures and details on here? But I'd also caution this to the OP.

The acquisition of this elderly friend's shotguns may cause, with some police forces, concerns about how many shotguns the OP possesses and demands to increase of augment his security. Also it is an offence for any person to offer for sale or sell an shotgun that is out of proof. Finally too many shotguns in a tightly packed cabinet can be a recipe for those already in it getting dinks and dangs! So if I were the OP I'd ONLY accept these additional "gifts" if their cabinet were gifted with them free of charge!

My advice? If the stuff being offered as a gift is old, worn out, off the face, tired then I'd politely decline and suggest the elderly friend contact for themselves an auction house.

Edited December 5, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Centrepin]

On 30/11/2021 at 23:36, keeper96 said:

Where are these racks of cheap unwanted English guns people talk about? 
I keep looking for them to buy but they all seem to be holding strong money!

It's rarely the English guns going cheap as I see it they're mostly foreign, Spanish SBSs you can't give away.

If anyone does happen to be giving away or selling an English Hammer gun then I'm all ears😃

[wymberley]

On 28/11/2021 at 18:34, Old farrier said:

do you think you will still be able to get a improved cylinder pattern with steel?

Very good question that really deserves an answer. I would imagine that someone over the pond has had a look into it, possibly no one on this side though. Perhaps we could get a slack handful of these now valueless guns which have a range of the more open chokes and be sponsored by the loaders for an investigation into their open choked performance with steel shot. You never know, those which hold up and produce good open patterns may just recover their value - who'd have thought it, a pricey star shot bored gun!