NoBodyImportant Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 I feel this would be a fun separate discussion. Where they going to get the guns? Is it a good idea to give guns to them with no experience. Honestly if civilians would hide in buildings and randomly fire at the invaders it could be an effective strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Saw on the news last week, that Ukrainian citizens were being given training in the use of firearms - Mostly AK variants by the look of it. Seemed to be a huge variation of ages, male, female and whatever inbetween Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 I believe that the Ukraine has national service, so a large majority would know how to use a rifle,they in turn can show others,I have read this evening that the government has handed out 10,000 rifles. Ukraine is going to lose the battle, it's estimated the capital will fall in 96 hrs,the government have nothing to lose by arming its citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, welsh1 said: I believe that the Ukraine has national service, so a large majority would know how to use a rifle,they in turn can show others,I have read this evening that the government has handed out 10,000 rifles. Ukraine is going to lose the battle, it's estimated the capital will fall in 96 hrs,the government have nothing to lose by arming its citizens. I think it'll just get ordinary people killed, the people they showed on the news last week looked like they would spray one magazine and that would be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 It a lot harder to lock someone up in a camp if they shoot back at you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted February 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mice! said: I think it'll just get ordinary people killed, the people they showed on the news last week looked like they would spray one magazine and that would be it. Each Ukrainian only needs to get one Russian before being killed themselves. The old gun behind every blade grass quote but in this case it puts a gun behind every Ukrainian door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mice! said: I think it'll just get ordinary people killed, the people they showed on the news last week looked like they would spray one magazine and that would be it. It's up to the individual if they want to take a weapon and fight,the Ukrainian people are passionate about their country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, welsh1 said: It's up to the individual if they want to take a weapon and fight,the Ukrainian people are passionate about their country. You would hope the people would fight for their country, but they seem ill prepared, 10,000 rifles against an army? From what I saw on the news this morning most people were trying to get away. 22 minutes ago, Ultrastu said: It a lot harder to lock someone up in a camp if they shoot back at you . This is what's not clear, why the Russians are invading, I don't know anything about the war that's been going on for 8 years. I expected the Russians to roll in with no shots fired and just say it's ours now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 51 minutes ago, Mice! said: I expected the Russians to roll in with no shots fired and just say it's ours now? Just watched a video of an Ukrainian family man loading his wife and kids into a bus, he is staying behind to fight the Russians. The Ukrainian Army seems to be putting up a fight, they managed to re-take the airport, although have apparently used the opportunity to disable (blow up) the runway, so when the Russians inevitably re-take it they won’t be able to land any troops there. The Russians have superior numbers, have what appears to be complete control of the air and sea and initial strikes were on key installations and command centres. I can’t see the Ukrainians lasting too long to be honest. The Ukrainian people, as in pretty much the entire country, need to take up arms against the invaders. I’m not sure they have enough weapons to hand out but their President initially asked for anyone with military experience to step up, then later said they would arm absolutely anyone who was willing to come forward. There are videos coming out of lots of Ukrainians fleeing the fronts. If they are going to be expected to stand and fight the country needs to be co-ordinated, armed and led. At present I bet there is a lot of confusion amongst the chaos and the Russians initial hit on command infrastructure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirokuMK70 Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 8 hours ago, welsh1 said: I believe that the Ukraine has national service, so a large majority would know how to use a rifle,they in turn can show others,I have read this evening that the government has handed out 10,000 rifles. Ukraine is going to lose the battle, it's estimated the capital will fall in 96 hrs,the government have nothing to lose by arming its citizens. Belligerence only goes so far. It would be a certain death sentence for anyone who did this... would you take that decision? Ukraine is not guerilla country, there are no vietnam jungles or afghan mountains to melt away into and I can't imagine anyone who lives there wants Kiev turning into another Grozny... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 34 minutes ago, MirokuMK70 said: Belligerence only goes so far. It would be a certain death sentence for anyone who did this... would you take that decision? Ukraine is not guerilla country, there are no vietnam jungles or afghan mountains to melt away into and I can't imagine anyone who lives there wants Kiev turning into another Grozny... Would i take up arms against an army invading my country?I probably would, the russian army isn't going to sit you down and give you tea and cakes,they are going to take the country by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Hello, I can just see Putin watching the news on Ukraine citizens taking up arms, he will just order his commanders to drop more bombs until the Ukrainian citizens are beaten into submission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirokuMK70 Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Exactly my point, the more they fight back, the more Ivan would destroy and the end result would still be the same.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirokuMK70 Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 I think if I lived in Kiev right now I'd rather get it over with and live a relatively normal life under whatever puppet regime Putin installs, rather than see my wife and daughter living in a hole in the ground in a bullet swept wasteland, a la Grozny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Reports of protests against the invasion in many Russian cities, that also takes courage. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Ukraine is an immense and vast country. It would take a huge army to control. At the same time you have to keep control at home and elsewhere. Only the Chinese seem to be able to manage such a fete. The Ukrainians will have their own minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 9 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said: Each Ukrainian only needs to get one Russian before being killed themselves. The old gun behind every blade grass quote but in this case it puts a gun behind every Ukrainian door. And each Russian tank commander only needs to blow a house or block of flats apart before being... able to rub his hands together and shout 'Следующий!' (Next in Russian) It's a naive attitude to think that way. Millions of Ukranian citizens will be killed without ever laying a glove on a Russian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, oowee said: Ukraine is an immense and vast country. It would take a huge army to control. At the same time you have to keep control at home and elsewhere. Only the Chinese seem to be able to manage such a fete. The Ukrainians will have their own minds. It is...but it's not a complicated geography as such. The mountainous regions are crammed into the extreme Western and Southern areas and there's only 18% forest/woodland. The vast majority of it is flat and with a very good road network, making troop movement and area control much more straightforward. This isn't Afghanistan, with its myriad of gorges, mountains and inaccessible passes. You drive through most of Ukraine and it is soul-crushingly dull for mile after mile after mile... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: It is...but it's not a complicated geography as such. The mountainous regions are crammed into the extreme Western and Southern areas and there's only 18% forest/woodland. The vast majority of it is flat and with a very good road network, making troop movement and area control much more straightforward. This isn't Afghanistan, with its myriad of gorges, mountains and inaccessible passes. You drive through most of Ukraine and it is soul-crushingly dull for mile after mile after mile... But its full of people with wide open borders. Lots of homes. It would take a Uyghurs style persecution to control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Who knows what will pan out, but reports currently that the end goal is to demilitarise Ukraine which would not necessarily mean an occupation was necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 12 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: Just watched a video of an Ukrainian family man loading his wife and kids into a bus, he is staying behind to fight the Russians. The Ukrainian Army seems to be putting up a fight, they managed to re-take the airport, although have apparently used the opportunity to disable (blow up) the runway, so when the Russians inevitably re-take it they won’t be able to land any troops there. The Russians have superior numbers, have what appears to be complete control of the air and sea and initial strikes were on key installations and command centres. I can’t see the Ukrainians lasting too long to be honest. The Ukrainian people, as in pretty much the entire country, need to take up arms against the invaders. I’m not sure they have enough weapons to hand out but their President initially asked for anyone with military experience to step up, then later said they would arm absolutely anyone who was willing to come forward. There are videos coming out of lots of Ukrainians fleeing the fronts. If they are going to be expected to stand and fight the country needs to be co-ordinated, armed and led. At present I bet there is a lot of confusion amongst the chaos and the Russians initial hit on command infrastructure. Every male between 18 and 60 is being Conscripted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Weihrauch17 said: Every male between 18 and 60 is being Conscripted. Like I said previously, for them to be effectively conscripted they need a stable Government / command network. They need designated places to report to, where they can be given weapons, and orders. At present they seem to be fleeing the front lines like everyone else. Hopefully they can get that network in place and push the Russians back. The U.K. and other allies will no doubt be shipping those weapons needed in from the West. There are reports of significant loss of Russian tanks / armour, let’s hope that is attributed to all those rocket launchers we shipped out there over recent weeks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Like I said previously, for them to be effectively conscripted they need a stable Government / command network. They need designated places to report to, where they can be given weapons, and orders. At present they seem to be fleeing the front lines like everyone else. Hopefully they can get that network in place and push the Russians back. The U.K. and other allies will no doubt be shipping those weapons needed in from the West. There are reports of significant loss of Russian tanks / armour, let’s hope that is attributed to all those rocket launchers we shipped out there over recent weeks!! And I wonder what Vitaly's Pronoun was I would suggest He/Him/Hero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, discobob said: And I wonder what Vitaly's Pronoun was I would suggest He/Him/Hero Seems they have a couple of heroic Vitali / Vitaly’s 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 40 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Like I said previously, for them to be effectively conscripted they need a stable Government / command network. They need designated places to report to, where they can be given weapons, and orders. At present they seem to be fleeing the front lines like everyone else. Hopefully they can get that network in place and push the Russians back. The U.K. and other allies will no doubt be shipping those weapons needed in from the West. There are reports of significant loss of Russian tanks / armour, let’s hope that is attributed to all those rocket launchers we shipped out there over recent weeks!! That takes some stones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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