Death of a licensed SGC holder and what happens to his guns

[Wingman]

Hi Everyone

A good friend of my wife lost her father recently and he was in legal possession of 2 shotguns, the guns were confiscated by the police as his wife does not hold a SGC.  The situation between step mother and daughter is not good (although they are both executors) and the mother is threatening to find someone who has a SGC to retrieve the guns and sell them.  My wife's friend has asked us for some help (both my wife and I are holders of shotgun certificates) but I am really lost as to how the process works and what is legally acceptable in this situation.  So, my question is what is required in this type of situation for the Police to release the guns to my wife for secure storage whilst things are sorted out?  Also could the guns be gifted to us by the executors so that they become our property and we can work together with the daughter to decide what to do with them in due course?

Appreciate any advice on whats proving to be a difficult situation for my wifes friend. 

[Dave at kelton]

Down to the executors to decide what happens to them according to the will and law. Ask the police if they are happy to transfer to an RFD pending the outcome of this process. Not sure you can get involved in what is effectively a civil matter between the executors and potential beneficiaries.

[Pushandpull]

There is a guidance note in the firearms section of the BASC website which may help.

[London Best]

Both the OP’s options are ok, but if the wife/daughter asks the police should issue a section 7 temporary certificate to allow time to sell the guns.

[Wingman]

Thanks all, I will take a look at the BASC website.

[Newbie to this]

Sounds messy, and my advice would be to stay out of it and let them sort it out between themselves.

As has already been said they can get a section 7 to allow them to deal with the shotguns.

[Wingman]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

Sounds messy, and my advice would be to stay out of it and let them sort it out between themselves.

As has already been said they can get a section 7 to allow them to deal with the shotguns.

It is and that's good advice thank you.

[enfieldspares]

Step back from the fact that these are "dangerous weapons" and look at them as if they were the late gentleman's motorcycle or his vintage Premier drum kit. Neither of these would he, I speculate, would he have wanted to be chopped into small pieces and thrown into a furnace or put into landfill.

But unless there is either an instruction of the will regarding "the contents of my residence" or, which would override that, he had bequeathed the guns to a specific identifiable friend that he named in his will then they should be disposed of to realise the best chance to get their "money's worth" as would his other "chattels".

That may mean that, yes, they are sold and the money's worth then form part of his estate to be given out by cheque to the benficiaries as part of their share. And just as the executor couldn't abandon the motorcycle or drum kit to the weekly refuse collection so, too, cannot the guns be abandoned to the police to render into valueless scrap metal.

And even if he died with no will the rules of intestacy will say who gets how much (money's worth) from that. They cannot simply be "given away" for they may not be mere cheap single barrel 12 bore guns worth £30 at most but cased and paired Purdey guns worth £20,000. The law is clear the executors are under a duty to attempt realise the best price for all assets. Not pass them to a third party as a free gift.

The guns cannot be simply gifted to someone for free. Usually the best way to dispose of all such (guns, motorcycles, vintage drum kits) is either by getting three offer prices from established traders in such things or at auction where the principle of "willing buyer willing seller" will hold that the hammer price at sale was a true market value.

The step mother if executor is actually on the face of it doing what (in the absence of specific terms in the will regarding a bequest of the guns) an executor is meant to do. Have the chattel sold and realise its value.

Her "threatening" to find a SGC holder is actually her sourcing a person who can hold them lawfully to facilitate their conversion into cash for the estate which you would expect to then be by the mechanism described as above. Three "offers" or sale at a reputable auction but also not to that SGC holder's "mate" for the price of a drink and then an under the table envelope of banknotes changing hands for their true worth.

Edited May 27, 2022 by enfieldspares

[bluesj]

As it doesn't look like the guns are of sentimental value to anyone are the of any monetary value if not let the police deal with them.

[wymberley]

The very first thing to do is to get them out of the hands of the police: sort the legalities out later.

[HantsRob]

3 hours ago, bluesj said:

As it doesn't look like the guns are of sentimental value to anyone are the of any monetary value if not let the police deal with them.

I would suggest that's poor advice, they will destroy them after a time if ownership and storage isn't sorted.

2 hours ago, wymberley said:

The very first thing to do is to get them out of the hands of the police: sort the legalities out later.

I'd agree. Either via RFD or just store them til they both agree on where they should go or how the value is to be split. RFD at the estate's cost would be my choice here to save losing friends and causing tensions.

[bluesj]

4 hours ago, HantsRob said:

I would suggest that's poor advice, they will destroy them after a time if ownership and storage isn't sorted.

If the guns are only worth £2.50 each whats the problem? Ic they are worth a few grand and the wife is going to see the money then yes get a rfd to pick them up. 

[mossy835]

8 hours ago, London Best said:

Both the OP’s options are ok, but if the wife/daughter asks the police should issue a section 7 temporary certificate to allow time to sell the guns.

 

this

[wymberley]

As these were confiscated, did anyone photograph them or receive a condition statement signed by the receiving officer? Two 'noes' means no legs to stand on if it were to become necessary. Should Bluesj's £2.50 be correct, then no problem, but an average couple of guns can easily be £1k. It wouldn't be the first time - and certainly not the last - that guns have been seriously devalued while in police possession. Guns simply aren't selling too well at the moment so the RFD's fees could put a dent in their residual value - hopefully the police won't have put one or two in the barrels along with the gouge on the stock to compound the issue. These need sighting to ensure all is well and if applicable, kept with your friendly local SGC holder until they are sold with no unnecessary outlay.

[HantsRob]

On 27/05/2022 at 17:36, bluesj said:

If the guns are only worth £2.50 each whats the problem? Ic they are worth a few grand and the wife is going to see the money then yes get a rfd to pick them up. 

If they know that is the value, that's not a problem. Until you know this then they have value which belong to the deceased's estate. 

I'd suggest someone finds the deceased's SGC and see what was written on there as to what was owned. Or, the executor should be able to ask the firearms team for what was confiscated. From this a good gun shop may be able to give a best and worse case, although without photos it is very hard. But, if it said "browning 725" for example I would be getting those guns into safe storage where they won't be destroyed.

[Lloyd90]

Tell the wife to ask the Police to issue a temporary certificate. 
She can then take the guns home and store them in the cabinet they already have. 
 

I have had to arrange the same for a friends wife after his sudden unexpected death. 
 

She was then able to possess and sell the guns off her temp cert and transfer onto the new buyers ticket. 
 

Incidentally, I see that the RFD was offering her not a lot and I bought the guns off her for a fair bit more than the RFD was offering. 
 

I thought it was a fair price and happy with it as was she. 
 

 

 

If they don’t want to sort out the sale themselves tell them to pay a RFD to store them, or sell them direct to an RFD. 
 

They won’t get much for them but there we go. 
 

I would exercise a lot of caution with saying they were “gifted” to you, as they aren’t being gifted to you really are they? 
 

Stay out of the messy bits. 

[mattsccm]

Had something simiar when my uncle died with no will or very immediate family. Police were called as he was found by a neighbour and his FAC and SGC flagged up when the address was logged by the police. Guns were taken immediately and before my father, his brother, or me could get there. We were advised to wait a bit actually! In a few days my dad established that he would be handlying the estate and was able to ask the police to transfer all to a RFD. We all met there and the shotguns were transfereed to his SGC and the firearms put in storage until sold. The shotguns then mostly ended up with me but it seemed easier to the police to go via my dad as he was the legal owner. Didn't take more than a few weeks and we didn't chase.  I guess the OP has to establish who owns them now and that person can dispose as they like. Value wasn't even considered. We just did it

[Dougy]

More annoying is the fact that the police are aware of the process yet fail to help out or offer any advice whatsoever. 

[Vince Green]

As a former secretary of a big rifle and pistol club ,back in the day, I have known the police to come and take guns away never to be seen again.

You need to be careful to establish that the guns were taken for safe keeping and not surrendered