Energy Price Cap

[Rewulf]

7 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

It evolved into Council tax of course. Same tax, different name but now more expensive than Poll tax would have been. 

Not really , the poll tax was a per capita tax for EVERY adult, the bigger your adult household, the more it cost.
Lord Farquer alone in his mansion would have paid a quarter of what Mrs Miggins and her 3 adult kids would .

It was grossly unfair.

Council tax just replaced the rates system it was based on .

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

Looks likely that water will be the next panic waiting to happen.

They can try , it comes out the sky in copious quantities where I live .😆

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

The cause is completely different.

The hand gluers are green nut munching quacks that probably dont work.

The movement has equated the potential strike to the national Poll Tax strike, which saw more than 17 million people refuse to pay the Poll Tax in the UK in the late 80s and early 90s.

What happened to the Poll tax ? 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-11070049/What-Dont-Pay-UK-happens-cancel-energy-bill-payment.html

 

Minimal impact on the energy companies, whilst people partaking risk debt collectors, being cut off and having to pay legal fee’s etc. 

 

Not exactly sticking it to them is it? 
 

 

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Not exactly sticking it to them is it?

It's a bit premature to say exactly what will happen, before the action has been undertaken. 

If you read back to my 2nd post, I stated very clearly it wasn't legal, and I wouldn't put a link up. 

The bit I did put up isn't illegal, it might not be advisable, and it might not work either, but it might make people feel better. 

[Lloyd90]

10 hours ago, Rewulf said:

It's a bit premature to say exactly what will happen, before the action has been undertaken. 

If you read back to my 2nd post, I stated very clearly it wasn't legal, and I wouldn't put a link up. 

The bit I did put up isn't illegal, it might not be advisable, and it might not work either, but it might make people feel better. 

I hope it does work. I hope people are able to force some sort of change. 
 

The current situation for many is not good. 
 

I feel bad for the pensioners, and others on fixed incomes / benefits or whatever who through no fault of their own will struggle etc. 

 

 

For people who’ve lived well beyond their means, car, phone, holidays, designer clothing, etc etc all on credit cards and finance, I don’t feel particularly sorry for. Hopefully it will be an eye opener. 

[Old farrier]

Hard for many people to get to grips with the massive increase of the daily energy costs 

I can understand gas and electric have to go up all be it a massive amount 

however the standing charge seems to have increased in line I can’t understand why 

have they put in new pipes and cables?

more meter readers 

or maybe I’m just not looking at the bill correctly 

[Penelope]

18 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

 

Probably, by forgetting to take a monthly meter read and thus getting estimated bills and reminders.

I would urge everyone to not have a DD and have the self-discipline to take readings monthly and pay only for the energy used.

You can do the same with a DD, I do. I get a text and email requesting meter readings which I provide, then the funds for the energy used are taken via DD.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

In simple terms, how can the high prices be justified when the suppliers are making absolutely massive profits?

[bostonmick]

of course we are being ripped off as per usual.but not just with energy bills thats the way the uk rolls.vat on lifes essentials is wrong.the government back in the day sold off all our essential services gas electricity water etc mostly in foriegn hands now.yet they take a green levy on every bill.this has been going on for decades yet i know of no publicly owned generation ie solar wind or wave so where have those untold billions gone.most of the solar farms are foreign owned.the standing charge applied is a real money spinner every property in the uk pays on average 50p a day for the privilege of having a meter and that is before you flick a switch.then we move on to the current petrol and diesel rip off. i live on a road that over some eight miles has three small independent garages one charges £1.98.9 another £1.89.9 and then the one on a nain holiday route to skegness charges £1.74.9 so a difference of some 24p.also next time you go into a supermarket have a look at some of the products that are brought in from abroad bananas grapes melobs etc all have many miles of transport but are still as cheap as they ever were.and plentifull yet locally produced stuff is skyrocketing in price and in a lot of cases scarce.yes we are being ripped off.absolutely no doubt about it.

[derbyduck]

18 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Not really , the poll tax was a per capita tax for EVERY adult, the bigger your adult household, the more it cost.
Lord Farquer alone in his mansion would have paid a quarter of what Mrs Miggins and her 3 adult kids would .

It was grossly unfair.

Council tax just replaced the rates system it was based on .

They can try , it comes out the sky in copious quantities where I live .😆

Not all of your water comes out of the sky where you live ! Copious amounts of your water falls on the moors and hills of Yorkshire and Derbyshire and is channelled via the  Derwent valley aqua duct and into the Nottingham sandstone aquafer .

[derbyduck]

5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

In simple terms, how can the high prices be justified when the suppliers are making absolutely massive profits?

what will happen to the windfall tax that suppliers are paying if these high prices become the norm , will they continue or will they be squashed by the government ?

Edited August 11, 2022 by derbyduck

[Lloyd90]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/10/deliveroo-losses-cost-of-living-crisis-simon-wolfson?fbclid=IwAR19nlWSnEQFF35Yl7_Hk12M3XrTb-8CkQQUKRq-_AcYwrRqP61eOtO7zd0&fs=e&s=cl
 

Looks like people are already cutting back on the non essential’s. 

[old man]

On 11/08/2022 at 08:09, Old farrier said:

Hard for many people to get to grips with the massive increase of the daily energy costs 

I can understand gas and electric have to go up all be it a massive amount 

however the standing charge seems to have increased in line I can’t understand why 

have they put in new pipes and cables?

more meter readers 

or maybe I’m just not looking at the bill correctly 

Partially to cover the cost of so called smart meters maybe?

On 11/08/2022 at 10:47, bostonmick said:

of course we are being ripped off as per usual.but not just with energy bills thats the way the uk rolls.vat on lifes essentials is wrong.the government back in the day sold off all our essential services gas electricity water etc mostly in foriegn hands now.yet they take a green levy on every bill.this has been going on for decades yet i know of no publicly owned generation ie solar wind or wave so where have those untold billions gone.most of the solar farms are foreign owned.the standing charge applied is a real money spinner every property in the uk pays on average 50p a day for the privilege of having a meter and that is before you flick a switch.then we move on to the current petrol and diesel rip off. i live on a road that over some eight miles has three small independent garages one charges £1.98.9 another £1.89.9 and then the one on a nain holiday route to skegness charges £1.74.9 so a difference of some 24p.also next time you go into a supermarket have a look at some of the products that are brought in from abroad bananas grapes melobs etc all have many miles of transport but are still as cheap as they ever were.and plentifull yet locally produced stuff is skyrocketing in price and in a lot of cases scarce.yes we are being ripped off.absolutely no doubt about it.

Nailed in one.

[Smokersmith]

On 11/08/2022 at 11:06, TIGHTCHOKE said:

In simple terms, how can the high prices be justified when the suppliers are making absolutely massive profits?

Heard part of an interview the other morning … Octopus energy used to pay 1.5 billion for their energy on the world markets. They now have to pay 9 billion.

There’s a lot of energy companies gone out of business as they couldn’t supply at the rates they’d agreed.

There’s no doubt at all that the primary producers are coining it in … but it’s a supply and demand thing.

[scolopax]

On 10/08/2022 at 17:54, Rewulf said:

Not really , the poll tax was a per capita tax for EVERY adult, the bigger your adult household, the more it cost.
Lord Farquer alone in his mansion would have paid a quarter of what Mrs Miggins and her 3 adult kids would .

It was grossly unfair.

Council tax just replaced the rates system it was based on .

They can try , it comes out the sky in copious quantities where I live .😆

the Poll Tax was incredibly fair, each adult paid for the services provided.  What’s fairer than that.  It was the fact that those who had paid comparatively little were required to pay more, that was its downfall.    The masses did not like it, but is was fair to all. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, scolopax said:

the Poll Tax was incredibly fair, each adult paid for the services provided.  What’s fairer than that.  It was the fact that those who had paid comparatively little were required to pay more, that was its downfall.    The masses did not like it, but is was fair to all. 

Let me guess, you arent of the 'masses' 

No doubt the poll tax would have made you better off, and you would have been more than happy to see the standard of living lowered for many more people ?
Its no wonder the labour party still exists with mentalities like yours.
To say that it was 'incredibly fair' is like saying soviet style communism was incredibly fair 😆
The poll tax , and its subsequent protests, leading to its cancellation, and its replacement with the council tax, caused voters to turn out in droves to get rid of the tories at the 92 election, they failed , but stripped the tories down to the bone , labour stepped in 5 years later with a landslide, with 13 years of stupidity to follow.
The poll tax was a disaster, and thinking it was some kind of great idea is delusional.

[scolopax]

4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Let me guess, you arent of the 'masses' 

No doubt the poll tax would have made you better off, and you would have been more than happy to see the standard of living lowered for many more people ?
Its no wonder the labour party still exists with mentalities like yours.
To say that it was 'incredibly fair' is like saying soviet style communism was incredibly fair 😆
The poll tax , and its subsequent protests, leading to its cancellation, and its replacement with the council tax, caused voters to turn out in droves to get rid of the tories at the 92 election, they failed , but stripped the tories down to the bone , labour stepped in 5 years later with a landslide, with 13 years of stupidity to follow.
The poll tax was a disaster, and thinking it was some kind of great idea is delusional.

People use council services, not properties, that link should have been broken.  I am one of the masses, the rates system was a good deal for us (the masses), but that is not saying it was fair deal, paying less than they should does not defacto make it fair, it is an inequitable system. It is fairer to divide the cost of services up between the people, not by lumps of bricks and mortar.  

[Stonepark]

5 hours ago, scolopax said:

the Poll Tax was incredibly fair, each adult paid for the services provided.  What’s fairer than that.  It was the fact that those who had paid comparatively little were required to pay more, that was its downfall.    The masses did not like it, but is was fair to all. 

All taxes are regressive, however the poll tax was particulary regressive in that it was a huge boon and benefit to the wealthy who comparitively use more services, and yet placed a huge burden on the masses, when a lot of them were not able to pay and who used fewer services.

What it overlooked was that the large decrease in taxation of the wealthy property owners had be offset by a higher tax burden on the poorer renters or property owners, who had no increase in the ability to use more services to offset the burden. i.e. they couldn't buy a second car and start driving an extra 20,000 miles per year.

3 minutes ago, scolopax said:

People use council services, not properties, that link should have been broken.  I am one of the masses, the rates system was a good deal for us (the masses), but that is not saying it was fair deal, paying less than they should does not defacto make it fair, it is an inequitable system. It is fairer to divide the cost of services up between the people, not by lumps of bricks and mortar.  

It is only fairer to divide up the cost by people if all people have the same opportunities to take advantage of the services.

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, scolopax said:

People use council services, not properties, that link should have been broken.  I am one of the masses, the rates system was a good deal for us (the masses), but that is not saying it was fair deal, paying less than they should does not defacto make it fair, it is an inequitable system. It is fairer to divide the cost of services up between the people, not by lumps of bricks and mortar.

By that measure , everyone should pay the same rate of tax ?
Oh but they cant can they , because they dont all get paid the same do they ? 
Can you not visualise the problem the poll tax would have created ?

2 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

It is only fairer to divide up the cost by people if all people have the same opportunities to take advantage of the services.

Put far better than I did.

[Stonepark]

Just to lift everyones mood, I got business quotes for electricity 1 year contract this morning:-

 

Cheapest

Octopus Energy £3.85 Standing Charge per Day and 51.5p/kwh

Mid Pack

Average of several  43p SG/D and 62p/KWH

Expensive

31p SG/D and 71p/kwh

 

These are up from an average of 40p/day and 44p/kwh in early July.

 

Coming to a house near you in January 2023......

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I opened an electricity paper bill at work the other day.

£117000!

[scolopax]

59 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

All taxes are regressive, however the poll tax was particulary regressive in that it was a huge boon and benefit to the wealthy who comparitively use more services, and yet placed a huge burden on the masses, when a lot of them were not able to pay and who used fewer services.

What it overlooked was that the large decrease in taxation of the wealthy property owners had be offset by a higher tax burden on the poorer renters or property owners, who had no increase in the ability to use more services to offset the burden. i.e. they couldn't buy a second car and start driving an extra 20,000 miles per year.

It is only fairer to divide up the cost by people if all people have the same opportunities to take advantage of the services.

Local services are funded by Council Tax. This includes:

• police and fire services
• leisure and recreation projects, such as maintaining parks and sports centres
• libraries and education services
• rubbish and waste collection and disposal
• transport and highway services, including street lighting and cleaning, and road maintenance
• environmental health and trading standards
• administration and record-keeping, such as marriages, deaths and birth, and local elections.

all do have equal access to services, in fact the poorer are more likely to have use of some of them

[Smokersmith]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I opened an electricity paper bill at work the other day.

£117000!

Chicken feed!

Imagine the impact on an energy intensive food business … I can tell you it’s colossal. Several people in the chemical industry have shut plants already.
This is why food inflation is hitting, as businesses look to cover their costs.

[discobob]

23 hours ago, scolopax said:

the Poll Tax was incredibly fair, each adult paid for the services provided.  What’s fairer than that.  It was the fact that those who had paid comparatively little were required to pay more, that was its downfall.    The masses did not like it, but is was fair to all. 

I remember when the poll tax was brought in - I was in RAF training at Weston Super Mare (RAF Locking if anyone remembers it) sharing a room with 3 other guys in a block with about 80 people in it. On the camp we had our own resources which came part and parcel of being in the forces (circa 1990)

Then in Cyprus, we had to pay council tax for a hiring (a civvie apartment) in downtown Limassol even though the services there were provided by the municipal council, paid by the Landlord and covered in the rent paid to him... (circa 1994)

[old man]

16 hours ago, Stonepark said:

Just to lift everyones mood, I got business quotes for electricity 1 year contract this morning:-

 

Cheapest

Octopus Energy £3.85 Standing Charge per Day and 51.5p/kwh

Mid Pack

Average of several  43p SG/D and 62p/KWH

Expensive

31p SG/D and 71p/kwh

 

These are up from an average of 40p/day and 44p/kwh in early July.

 

Coming to a house near you in January 2023......

To me this is the perfect illustration of the incredibly intelligent decision to give away control of all of our utilities to others (probably mates) in the guise of competition reducing prices? What it does of course is create monopolies as now who can charge whatever they wish?

Their reward for this, were not commensurate with the economic damage caused?

As for the poll tax, just another laugh as it was soon discovered that lots had no intention of paying anything and never did?

[Newbie to this]

8 hours ago, old man said:

As for the poll tax, just another laugh as it was soon discovered that lots had no intention of paying anything and never did?

Many still don't to this day