Man on Mobility scooter killed

[Westley]

1 minute ago, bostonmick said:

no doubt every trick in the book will be dragged out by his publicly funded barrister. racism oppressing of his ancestors. his mental health suffered due to covid the cost of living crisis pushing up the street price of weed and cocaine. oh yes many excuses that our failed justice system will eagerly accept as valid.his brief will no doubt plead him not guilty knowing full well that is a lie but we the gullible tax payer will just foot the bill without a whimper

A pretty accurate assumption really  !

[Ratlegs]

Just handcuff the B####### to some railings and let him rot along with many more

[Cosmicblue]

It will most likely be revealed that the perp is a paranoid schizophrenic who hasn't taken his medication, seems to be the normal path.  50 years ago there were mental health asylums spread across the country, these were closed and the land sold for building and the occupants sent to live amongst the community, i.e. us lot with the vain hope attached that they'd keep taking the tablets.  

Edited August 19, 2022 by Cosmicblue

[discobob]

3 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

It will most likely be revealed that the perp is a paranoid schizophrenic who hasn't taken his medication, seems to be the normal path.  50 years ago there were mental health asylums spread across the country, these were closed and the land sold for building and the occupants sent to live amongst the community, i.e. us lot with the vain hope attached that they'd keep taking the tablets.  

Nail on Head - and I talk as someone who spent his youth going to one of these places (Rainhill) to see my Dad. I do have to say though that they were not nice places at all and some of the treatments he had were horrific (electric shock etc..). He did end up in a home under care in the community which was nicer and he passed away in this home.

[harrycatcat1]

1 hour ago, bostonmick said:

no doubt every trick in the book will be dragged out by his publicly funded barrister. racism oppressing of his ancestors. his mental health suffered due to covid the cost of living crisis pushing up the street price of weed and cocaine. oh yes many excuses that our failed justice system will eagerly accept as valid.his brief will no doubt plead him not guilty knowing full well that is a lie but we the gullible tax payer will just foot the bill without a whimper

Sadly I think this is how it will play out.

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, harrycatcat1 said:

Sadly I think this is how it will play out.

I agree it is a sad state of affairs, but UNLESS the accused pleads guilty, it is the duty of the barrister appointed/assigned to 'do his best' for his client and try and get the client acquitted. 

If the accused pleads guilty - or is found guilty, the barrister will do his best to present reasons for leniency - as that is in his clients interests.  But leniency is for the judge - not the jury who have a 'simple' choice of guilty or not guilty (in England, it is slightly different in Scotland where there is a verdict of 'not proven' available I think.)

The jury has to decide - based on the evidence presented whether the accused is guilty.  There may be a whole pile of 'reasons' why the offence was committed - and they 'may' be relevant to the judge is deciding sentence, but unless the accused was innocent of committing the offence - then why he committed it is irrelevant to the verdict.

[Vince Green]

15 hours ago, old man said:

Ir's possible that the sentencing parameters are continually weakened behind the scenes?

They are and magistrates are often told don't hand out any custodial sentences this week because we have no room for them.

Even if the magistrates can hand out custodial sentences they know the offender will be let out ridiculously early and that is decided by some unaccountable Civil Servants answerable to nobody 

So really the legal system is a bit of a sham the Civil Service has the final say, not the judges and certainly not the magistrates. 

I also believe that a lot of people given community service orders are never called to serve them. 

This is because they have no work to give them and nobody to supervise them if they did.

[amateur]

12 hours ago, Westley said:

Ah, but you have overlooked the trauma he suffered to get to this Country in the first place and then being forced to reside in a single room, whilst awaiting 'Social Housing'. Of course he will be entitled to legal aid and will probably be bailed before the Bobbies have finished the paperwork.     

Apparently born in Hammersmith and lives in a 3 bed semi, so that knocks out a few arguments.

Just a standard lowlife

[Rem260]

17 hours ago, Scully said:

I can’t think why they would, even if it was or not. 

Community reassurance?

[bostonmick]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

I agree it is a sad state of affairs, but UNLESS the accused pleads guilty, it is the duty of the barrister appointed/assigned to 'do his best' for his client and try and get the client acquitted. 

If the accused pleads guilty - or is found guilty, the barrister will do his best to present reasons for leniency - as that is in his clients interests.  But leniency is for the judge - not the jury who have a 'simple' choice of guilty or not guilty (in England, it is slightly different in Scotland where there is a verdict of 'not proven' available I think.)

The jury has to decide - based on the evidence presented whether the accused is guilty.  There may be a whole pile of 'reasons' why the offence was committed - and they 'may' be relevant to the judge is deciding sentence, but unless the accused was innocent of committing the offence - then why he committed it is irrelevant to the verdict.

as the defence barrister is being paid for by the public he/she is technically working for us and would then have a moral duty to ensure this scum goes down for the longest possible time

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

as the defence barrister is being paid for by the public he/she is technically working for us and would then have a moral duty to ensure this scum goes down for the longest possible time

That's not the way it works.  The barrister is representing the accused - even if the bill is picked up (as I'm sure it will be) by public funding.  The public purse funds both sides (the CPS prosecuting and the accused's team defending) and also pays the court costs (judge, clerks, ushers, stenographers etc.).  It is the way the system works, just like the public purse pays for the prison (more per week than a decent hotel) for the next XX years, the probation service following that .........

Once an offence like this is committed - a big bill (as in at least £100's of thousands) is already in the 'pending tray'.  May run into millions if there are appeals.  That's what our justice system costs to run.

[Westley]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

That's not the way it works.  The barrister is representing the accused - even if the bill is picked up (as I'm sure it will be) by public funding.  The public purse funds both sides (the CPS prosecuting and the accused's team defending) and also pays the court costs (judge, clerks, ushers, stenographers etc.).  It is the way the system works, just like the public purse pays for the prison (more per week than a decent hotel) for the next XX years, the probation service following that .........

Once an offence like this is committed - a big bill (as in at least £100's of thousands) is already in the 'pending tray'.  May run into millions if there are appeals.  That's what our justice system costs to run.

Don't forget the string of adjournments too, just to keep em out a bit longer  ?

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, Westley said:

Don't forget the string of adjournments too, just to keep em out a bit longer  ?

Quite; the bottom line is that crime is not only dreadful for the victim (and family, friends etc.) but also incredibly expensive to the taxpayer - which is why it is so disappointing it is so leniently treated.

 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Rem260 said:

Community reassurance?

Yeah, fair point. 👍

[old'un]

The UK prison statistics 2021 make interesting reading….https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04334/SN04334.pdf

[bostonmick]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

That's not the way it works.  The barrister is representing the accused - even if the bill is picked up (as I'm sure it will be) by public funding.  The public purse funds both sides (the CPS prosecuting and the accused's team defending) and also pays the court costs (judge, clerks, ushers, stenographers etc.).  It is the way the system works, just like the public purse pays for the prison (more per week than a decent hotel) for the next XX years, the probation service following that .........

Once an offence like this is committed - a big bill (as in at least £100's of thousands) is already in the 'pending tray'.  May run into millions if there are appeals.  That's what our justice system costs to run.

i know full well that is not the way it works.its the way it should work.lawyers will be getting very rich off the back of this despicable crime.then the culprit will be kept in relative comfort for years to come then when released an army of do gooders will then bleed more money from the public purse to monitor him.put thst into perspective with the pensioners going without food or power.ex servicemen living on the streets abandoned by the very government who they fought for.the long lists of people waiting for life saving hospital treatment that will never be there in time.but no lets spend a few million on keeping scum like this.

[JohnfromUK]

56 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

i know full well that is not the way it works.  its the way it should work.

I share your frustrations, but we have (being realistic) only two possibilities to have a Government in the UK;

1. A 'blue' Government, arguably mildly 'right of centre' who claim to be tough on crime, immigration etc.  The present Tory party is the only real candidate here, though often has some support from Ulster Unionists.
2. A 'red' Government, left of centre - and in some possible flavours, quite far left of centre which is much more tolerant of immigration (even in the past encouraging it), less 'tough' on crime and more liberal and tolerant of petty crime, and more given to going down on one knee, sharing platforms with law breakers and terrorists, etc.  This could be anything from a Labour majority to a coalition of Labour with LibDems and/or SNP.

There are no other realistic options for any party, group, coalition who could realistically have any chance of forming a Government under the present system.  I would also add that as I see things now, it makes little difference since the Civil Service doesn't seem to carry out the Government's wishes, and juries (as an earlier poster has noted) fail to convict even on overwhelming evidence - and finally judges give minimal sentences if they (personally)  'agree with the cause'.  These last two being particularly aimed at ER, BLM and similar protesters.

I would however be concerned that any one accused should have a legal representative who represents them - rather than a legal representative who is on the same side as the prosecution because the same pocket pays both their bills.  You might as well give up trial by jury altogether if that was the case.

[old man]

4 hours ago, bostonmick said:

i know full well that is not the way it works.its the way it should work.lawyers will be getting very rich off the back of this despicable crime.then the culprit will be kept in relative comfort for years to come then when released an army of do gooders will then bleed more money from the public purse to monitor him.put thst into perspective with the pensioners going without food or power.ex servicemen living on the streets abandoned by the very government who they fought for.the long lists of people waiting for life saving hospital treatment that will never be there in time.but no lets spend a few million on keeping scum like this.

Sadly, It is what it is so we have to suck it up? 

[Dick]

I wonder if the footballers and Grand Prix drivers will be 'taking the knee' for the murdered guy.

[ditchman]

On 19/08/2022 at 13:18, old'un said:

The UK prison statistics 2021 make interesting reading….https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04334/SN04334.pdf

some very interesting stats in there well worth looking at