Shot Goshawks found dumped in Suffolk

[wymberley]

20 hours ago, marsh man said:

The one I was thinking about did have a case and was jailed for 18 weeks , Daniel lingham was 65 who lived in Norfolk and was a compulsive collector of bird eggs , he was only caught when a member of the public spotted him on Cawston Heath dressed from head to toe in camo gear , when the police searched him he had nine Linnet eggs , when they searched his house they found 5,257 eggs from many endangered species , this was in 2018 and in 2005 he was also convicted of a similar offence when they found 3000 eggs in his home , for that offence he got 10 weeks prison sentence , maybe now he have learnt his lesson .

Flippin' 'eck, the times given sound more like a reward than a punishment.

[stockybasher]

On 28/03/2023 at 10:52, old'un said:

Ok, lets say this guy is a full stack and a ticket holder and knows the law regarding the shooting of BOP (well he should do), so he parks up in the public car park gets is gun out and walks about this wood shooting goshawks, then on return to his car he dumps what he's shot in the car park, what!!!

as I say, I don't know this wood but reading about it, it seems like a very well used wood.

Don't assume he shot the birds locally, maybe just dumped there (for some very weird reason ) ??

If he was attention seeking via the dead birds, he has achieved his objective, whatever that might be - comes back to the sanity issues maybe.

All very sad and hugely unnecessary for law-abiding sportsmen  😞  

[marsh man]

On 28/03/2023 at 10:26, old'un said:

It does beg the question about this guy, how many people do you know that would even think about shooting in such an area that is obviously used by a lot of people, its even got a caravan and camp site.

Anyone know the area and if this woodland is some sort of reserve.

Reading in todays paper of yet another b o p been shot , this time it was in Scotland , police received reports of a Red Kite being shot around 11.15am on Monday on the Lochindorb Estate in Grantown -On-Spey , the SSPCA recovered the bird and it had to be put to sleep as the injuries were not recoverable .

This stupidity seem never ending and very widespread , don't think it will be long before we hear of another one .

[TIGHTCHOKE]

13 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Reading in todays paper of yet another b o p been shot , this time it was in Scotland , police received reports of a Red Kite being shot around 11.15am on Monday on the Lochindorb Estate in Grantown -On-Spey , the SSPCA recovered the bird and it had to be put to sleep as the injuries were not recoverable .

This stupidity seem never ending and very widespread , don't think it will be long before we hear of another one .

Especially as the red kites are carrion eaters!

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Especially as the red kites are carrion eaters!

Very true T C , we tried to interduce Red Kites down this way several years ago which at first wasn't a success , these had transmitters on there backs and were tracked by the B T O , two or three years later they turned up again and now they are a fairly common sight , the keepers never moan about the quantity of the birds of prey that resident on the estate and they know that if anyone pointed a gun towards them it would be instant dismissal if they were employed and banned for life off the estate if they wasn't employed , no brainer really , far , far to much to lose for no gain what so ever .

[Sako7mm]

On 29/03/2023 at 17:33, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Especially as the red kites are carrion eaters!

They're also effective killers. I wouldn't harm one, but don't kid yourself.  They're very efficient killers of poults.

[holloway]

Brainless selfish clowns ,does anyone know the Shaftesbury estate ?

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Sako7mm said:

They're also effective killers. I wouldn't harm one, but don't kid yourself.  They're very efficient killers of poults.

And tired partridges after a drive!

[ehb102]

On 28/03/2023 at 10:04, JohnfromUK said:

It should only be used IF true.  Mental health should not be used as a 'get out of jail free' card.

Mental health should not be used to excuse every person who commits a crime with a shotgun. It's not depression or anxiety that fuels these criminals, it's rage and entitlement. 

 

 

[merseamal]

On 06/02/2023 at 07:41, Pushandpull said:

This has been explained. It is a veterinary X-ray and "parrot" is one of the settings for the approximate size of the specimen being examined.

Yeah. I don’t get that, why would you need a specific setting for an X-ray? An X-ray is just a camera, they certainly don’t have settings in X-rays for people or post so why on birds? I don’t believe that X-ray is of these birds at all.

[wymberley]

16 minutes ago, merseamal said:

Yeah. I don’t get that, why would you need a specific setting for an X-ray? An X-ray is just a camera, they certainly don’t have settings in X-rays for people or post so why on birds? I don’t believe that X-ray is of these birds at all.

I think a doctor is going to be fully aware of the approximate size of an adult fellow human being. Can the same be said for a vet who may well not be fully aware of every bird species on (or above) the planet so a common species could well give a handy indicator of size.

[merseamal]

Just now, wymberley said:

I think a doctor is going to be fully aware of the approximate size of an adult fellow human being. Can the same be said for a vet who may well not be fully aware of every bird species on (or above) the planet so a common species could well give a handy indicator of size.

Why do you need to know the size for an X-ray? And wouldn’t you just use a tape measure instead of an X-ray?

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, merseamal said:

Why do you need to know the size for an X-ray?

Getting the 'exposure' right is important.  It is like a camera.  There is a  radiation sensitive 'film' and a radiation source. 

In a camera, the film is a photographic light sensitive film (or nowadays an electronic sensor array) and the light (radiation source) can be sunlight, flash, and light source.  You have to use the right amount of light or you get either over exposed (too white to see detail), or underexposed (too dark to see any detail).

In an X ray, the film/sensor is similar, but sensitive to X rays not light, andf the source is an X ray generator.  You need to have the right power of X rays to illuminate enough to 'expose' the film correctly.

X ray photography is a 'transmission' - i.e. you are recording where the X rays penetrate easily (flesh, skin etc.) less easily (bones) and not at all (metals, pellets etc.). 

To make it easy to get the exposure right, machines presumably have 'preset' settings (like cameras).  Parrot will probably be one.

[merseamal]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Getting the 'exposure' right is important.  It is like a camera.  There is a  radiation sensitive 'film' and a radiation source. 

In a camera, the film is a photographic light sensitive film (or nowadays an electronic sensor array) and the light (radiation source) can be sunlight, flash, and light source.  You have to use the right amount of light or you get either over exposed (too white to see detail), or underexposed (too dark to see any detail).

In an X ray, the film/sensor is similar, but sensitive to X rays not light, andf the source is an X ray generator.  You need to have the right power of X rays to illuminate enough to 'expose' the film correctly.

X ray photography is a 'transmission' - i.e. you are recording where the X rays penetrate easily (flesh, skin etc.) less easily (bones) and not at all (metals, pellets etc.). 

To make it easy to get the exposure right, machines presumably have 'preset' settings (like cameras).  Parrot will probably be one.

Sorry I don’t buy that, I’ve spent a lot of time googling vets X-ray machines and procedures, there’s 3 adjustable aspects but I can’t find a single machine that has “presets” for each animal. Even if there were presets then surely that wouldn’t work, big difference between a Jack Russel and St Bernard “dog” and big differences in sizes of parrot! There is a machine made by parrot and there is a machine where you can type in which animal it is. Also, the X-ray of the supposed goshawks as a very long neck and the head is missing…. Why wouldn’t you X-ray the head of a bird you suspect has been shot?

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, merseamal said:

Sorry I don’t buy that, I’ve spent a lot of time googling vets X-ray machines and procedures, there’s 3 adjustable aspects but I can’t find a single machine that has “presets” for each animal.

I outlined in my post vary basic X ray 'background how it works' and why you might have settings by type of subject.  I have no knowledge of specific machines - hence my inclusion of the 'presume' word.  However I can see that getting exposure right is critical to a good image (which is actually pretty unimportant if looking for lead pellets as lead (and metals in general) are VERY opaque compared to bone and flesh).

In the medical world X ray work is a specialist discipline.  Having myself been X rayed in A&E some 40 years ago on a bank holiday where the usual radiographer was away, the person (in fact my then GP) who did me used a 'flow chart guide' to get a basic level image of my injured foot (which luckily was not broken). I presume most vets practices have a 'specialist' in house, but may have machines with some presets for ease and speed of use.  Pellets should not require a high quality image to spot.

As to the particular photos/X rays of these goshawks, I have no idea why they were done the way they were.

[Gas seal]

The parrot. It’s a digital x ray machine and veterinary software with handy preloaded settings enabling the operator to get a quality image in a single go. Parrot it’s a compatible size/ anatomy. There isn’t a a goshawk setting. I hope this is any help. With other court cases involving killing birds of prey if we did have a license to release game birds at least the shoots involved would have the licence revoked. For me that would be a positive.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Gas seal said:

I hope this is any help.

Thank you.  That is much the sort of system I was presuming above, but you put it better than I did!

[merseamal]

5 minutes ago, Gas seal said:

The parrot. It’s a digital x ray machine and veterinary software with handy preloaded settings enabling the operator to get a quality image in a single go. Parrot it’s a compatible size/ anatomy. There isn’t a a goshawk setting. I hope this is any help. With other court cases involving killing birds of prey if we did have a license to release game birds at least the shoots involved would have the licence revoked. For me that would be a positive.

That reply was given by an anti online, do you know for yourself I.e are you and radiographer or know one that has confirmed this? Reason I ask is I have used X-ray machine for post, from letters to huge parcels and there’s no different settings or presets. I have also been xrayed a lot myself.

[Gas seal]

No I’m not a radiographer. It’s the system that the court accepted in wildlife crimes. I would never call anyone anti shooting for helping to convict someone for deliberately  killing birds of prey . The cost of the X-ray used in the courts to convict the men was charged to them when convicted so it must be genuine. What these men have been doing is no accident when out shooting and it’s not bad luck they got found out. They are now prohibited from using the General Licenses but the shoots will carry on. 

[Vince Green]

On 19/01/2023 at 13:24, Yellow Bear said:

Given the relative rarity of Goshawks one would be hard pressed to find 5 in one patch of forest to shoot.   Smacks of WJ setup for publicity.

That was my first thought.........

Five? Not possible?

My suggestion would be a taxidermist had them in his freezer and decided to get rid of them or panicked.

Who ever it was needs to be named and shamed

[Pushandpull]

A chap has been arrested and now charged with a variety of offences relating to this case. You can find full details on the raptorpersecutionuk website.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Or here;

https://raptorpersecutionuk.org/2023/06/07/man-charged-in-relation-to-5-shot-goshawks-found-dumped-in-forest-car-park-in-january/

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, Pushandpull said:

A chap has been arrested and now charged with a variety of offences relating to this case. You can find full details on the raptorpersecutionuk website.

I saw one on the box the other night and it might had been on the Spring Watch program that C P host , it showed a ( game keeper ) entering a large Larsen trap and killing a b o p with a lump of wood , the R S P B had already released a b o p and then set up a remote cam corda , the chap was found quilty and got a suspended sentance , this might had been a old one and I think the keeper came from Norfolk .

[Gas seal]

Hi yes it was on spring watch. The man charged seems to come from the same village as the game keeper seen on spring watch. If this man is convicted well done to the people who caught him. He is also charged with killing a woodpigeon. If convicted I wonder what the penalty will be. 

[Gas seal]

The game keeper was sentenced today. He said in court all game keepers kill birds of prey. I wonder if people are going to shoot on the shoots were this is happening. Another black mark on all shooters. BASC should ask members to keep away from any of these shoots. At least name them in the magazines.