Is it inevitable?

[GHE]

12 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

With the UK on its knees regarding the economy do you actually think the government would ban guns with millions of pounds hunting/shooting/clays etc put into the economy??? 

Regardless of what the industry says about the amount of money involved, it's a small amount in the scheme of things. Look at the billions of taxpayer money wasted on Coronavirus procurement, testing and so on, the government - all governments - cover these losses by borrowing, and then increase taxes to cover the interest repayments. If they decide to ban shooting then it will continue to be a gradual death-by-a-thousand-cuts process that won't have a direct effect on the UK economy.

So, let's not kid ourselves that the government will be affected by job or tax income losses, politicians are only concerned when it's their own job or income at risk.

[PeterHenry]

2 hours ago, GHE said:

Regardless of what the industry says about the amount of money involved, it's a small amount in the scheme of things. Look at the billions of taxpayer money wasted on Coronavirus procurement, testing and so on, the government - all governments - cover these losses by borrowing, and then increase taxes to cover the interest repayments. If they decide to ban shooting then it will continue to be a gradual death-by-a-thousand-cuts process that won't have a direct effect on the UK economy.

So, let's not kid ourselves that the government will be affected by job or tax income losses, politicians are only concerned when it's their own job or income at risk.

I take what you are saying - and yes, viewed in the round the amount of money shooting generates is relatively small. However, viewed in the context of the community's it supports, its extremely valuable, which I think should be the argument we make, as opposed to throwing around numbers that sound big, but aren't.

[Scully]

The biggest threats as I see it to shooting, are pressure groups which will focus and campaign on not only the environment or ‘climate change’, but also those who regard the killing of any sentient being as wrong.
I get the impression ( rightly or wrongly ) there is an increasingly stronger ethical or moral argument for the taking of a life, especially for sport but possibly to a lesser degree, for pest control.
There is an even bigger campaign to stop us killing any living species even to eat. 
The campaign to stop hunting foxes was very successful and a sure vote winner; there is absolutely nothing to prevent similar campaigns regarding other species from gaining momentum, save for the ‘cute factor’ possibly. You can bet your bottom dollar that if the so called upper classes started hunting grey squirrels there would be a campaign to abolish it. 🙂
The irony of the hunting with hounds act is that in my opinion there are many many more foxes killed nowadays due to an increased interest in shooting foxes and a tremendous leap in technology. 
A mate shot over 30 foxes in one week during the recent lambing season. Night vision takes no prisoners. 
Anyhow, am getting off topic. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Scully

[Genghis]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

The biggest threats as I see it to shooting, are pressure groups which will focus and campaign on not only the environment or ‘climate change’, but also those who regard the killing of any sentient being as wrong.
I get the impression ( rightly or wrongly ) there is an increasingly stronger ethical or moral argument for the taking of a life, especially for sport but possibly to a lesser degree, for pest control.
There is an even bigger campaign to stop us killing any living species even to eat. 
The campaign to stop hunting foxes was very successful and a sure vote winner; there is absolutely nothing to prevent similar campaigns regarding other species from gaining momentum, save for the ‘cute factor’ possibly. You can bet your bottom dollar that if the so called upper classes started hunting grey squirrels there would be a campaign to abolish it. 🙂
The irony of the hunting with hounds act is that in my opinion there are many many more foxes killed nowadays due to an increased interest in shooting foxes and a tremendous leap in technology. 
A mate shot over 30 foxes in one week during the recent lambing season. Night vision takes no prisoners. 
Anyhow, am getting off topic. 

It seems to me that there are two different kind of antis. Those who focus on the shooting of live quarry, and those who just hate guns and want them completely banned. The latter group are fear-fed by a constant drip of news stories of shootings in America.

[Gerry78]

23 hours ago, GHE said:

Regardless of what the industry says about the amount of money involved, it's a small amount in the scheme of things. Look at the billions of taxpayer money wasted on Coronavirus procurement, testing and so on, the government - all governments - cover these losses by borrowing, and then increase taxes to cover the interest repayments. If they decide to ban shooting then it will continue to be a gradual death-by-a-thousand-cuts process that won't have a direct effect on the UK economy.

So, let's not kid ourselves that the government will be affected by job or tax income losses, politicians are only concerned when it's their own job or income at risk.

Fair enough But the last census by shooting organisations was fieldsports brings in 2 billion a year to the uk I really hope we’re all worrying for nothing 

[London Best]

8 minutes ago, Gerry78 said:

I really hope we’re all worrying for nothing 

We are not all worrying.

[wymberley]

53 minutes ago, London Best said:

We are not all worrying.

Although tempered with a little regret, the way things are going one can’t help feeling somewhat smug about not having to ever buy another shotgun cartridge.

[Gerry78]

59 minutes ago, London Best said:

We are not all worrying.

Seems to me people are worried if you read these posts 

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

Encourage youngster into the sport, when I started it was with a rimfire / shotgun on an uncles farm (licence from the post office days) then as I got older, still a schoolboy, all my friends used various rifles & pistols shooting tin cans etc & it was fun. Today's kids have screens & shoot em up games. No real fun, no morals learnt, no discipline, no respect, no craft & certainly no skills just a desire to get to the next warrior level. Maybe clubs, shooting ranges etc for all levels & types of shooting should have free membership & free range fees etc for under 16' / 18's to encourage the new "next generation" ?

[GHE]

37 minutes ago, THEINVISIBLESCARECROW said:

Encourage youngster into the sport, when I started it was with a rimfire / shotgun on an uncles farm (licence from the post office days) then as I got older, still a schoolboy, all my friends used various rifles & pistols shooting tin cans etc & it was fun. Today's kids have screens & shoot em up games. No real fun, no morals learnt, no discipline, no respect, no craft & certainly no skills just a desire to get to the next warrior level. Maybe clubs, shooting ranges etc for all levels & types of shooting should have free membership & free range fees etc for under 16' / 18's to encourage the new "next generation" ?

Some good points here.

My youngest daughter has just had her certificate interview, because of where she is living she won't be able to keep guns there and will have to carry on using my own and the farm storage until she has a more suitable address. The FEO was helpful and encouraged her to get some practice at a range (all her experience of rifles is on our own land and most of her shotgun experience is at clay shoots). 

So, armed with the name of a local range, she asked me about it - could she just go along there and practice? Well, she'll need to ask them but even if they will lend or hire her a .22, it's all that she will be able to shoot there, and ranges are far from cheap, they don't seem to encourage young people who are on a limited budget.

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

1 hour ago, GHE said:

Some good points here.

My youngest daughter has just had her certificate interview, because of where she is living she won't be able to keep guns there and will have to carry on using my own and the farm storage until she has a more suitable address. The FEO was helpful and encouraged her to get some practice at a range (all her experience of rifles is on our own land and most of her shotgun experience is at clay shoots). 

So, armed with the name of a local range, she asked me about it - could she just go along there and practice? Well, she'll need to ask them but even if they will lend or hire her a .22, it's all that she will be able to shoot there, and ranges are far from cheap, they don't seem to encourage young people who are on a limited budget.

Not only In terms of FAC / SGC at ranges & clay grounds, why not air rifle target clubs as well. At my local range in school holidays a young girl comes with her dad on wednesdays shooting a rat catcher / S400 air rifles but a range fee has to be paid. My range is changing with the times & started an air rifle target section in some surrounding rough ground. Perhaps we could all suggest at our local range / shooting ground all under 16/18's can come along with an adult & shoot for free, be a member but must be with an adult etc. They are also the next generation that will go out with a gun & bring back a meal, help control pests and most important, stand up to anti's after all, I'm dam sure adult anti's don't leave under 18's to decide for themselves what is right or wrong.

[Scully]

The only clay ground I’ve been to which cater to air rifles is Crabtree. Maybe it’s time all of them did. It’s a good idea. 

[BlaserF3]

50 minutes ago, Scully said:

The only clay ground I’ve been to which cater to air rifles is Crabtree. Maybe it’s time all of them did. It’s a good idea. 

👍

[Gas seal]

We had a couple of clay pigeon clubs in the town, one would be on one of the country park/ nature reserve each year at the local show and people would come and have a go. No clubs for a few years now , we still have an air gun club. I can’t see any reason why the council or the police wouldn’t allow clay shooting to continue again. We have a couple of clay shooting grounds nearby with air gun shooting ranges. I hear about how much shooting is worth to the economy yet on this site members who go working on the shoots say that the wages don’t even cover the cost of getting there and back home. I don’t see many teenagers out shooting now. Before the VHD killed the rabbits we had a few teenagers out at night with air guns shooting rabbits, they shouldn’t have been out there but they only shot rabbits and were good at it. Kids don’t go out much to many tv channels and games. If they want to know anything about wildlife or shooting they can ask the computer and it will tell them. A long way since the new 625 line tv .

[TRINITY]

14 hours ago, Scully said:

The only clay ground I’ve been to which cater to air rifles is Crabtree. Maybe it’s time all of them did. It’s a good idea. 

In Yorkshire there are quite a few, Thimbleby,Hazel Bank,Park Lodge,Cherry burton

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

In Yorkshire there are quite a few, Thimbleby,Hazel Bank,Park Lodge,Cherry burton

Well that’s good to hear, someone is thinking clearly. 👍

[London Best]

I believe Lakeside near Melton Mowbray has airgun facilities.

[DUNKS]

29 minutes ago, London Best said:

I believe Lakeside near Melton Mowbray has airgun facilities.

They do. It's not expensive either and you shoot from under cover out to around 80 yards I think

[GHE]

We're wandering well off-topic here, but it has to be a good thing that air rifle shooting is now becoming more available to the public. There is, I think, a danger that it does (up to a point) support the anti view that there's no need for people to actually own guns and take them home though.

Shooting airguns outdoors ticks most of the boxes for people who want to try shooting themselves. Indoor rifle ranges are pretty limited, with no wind or weather to affect the results and just one or two choices of distance, up to 25m. I've been to a pipe range occasionally, 100m and one of the very few places where any calibre can be fired, ideal for zeroing but again no wind, no weather and no sense of distance.

A clay club that I belong to puts on a "have a go" event once a year, as part of a large public day out, a really good event for families. Our shooting is always very popular, with nearly 300 people having a go over the two days. We raise a lot of money for a local hospice, we demonstrate to the public that shooting is safe, fun and that we're not a bunch of hooligans, and always end up with a few new members too.

Let's face it, all forms of shooting tend to be a well-kept secret, the general public doesn't know about us and it isn't really accessible to them. If shooting is to grow or even to survive, this needs to change.

[Fellside]

19 minutes ago, GHE said:

We're wandering well off-topic here, but it has to be a good thing that air rifle shooting is now becoming more available to the public. There is, I think, a danger that it does (up to a point) support the anti view that there's no need for people to actually own guns and take them home though.

Shooting airguns outdoors ticks most of the boxes for people who want to try shooting themselves. Indoor rifle ranges are pretty limited, with no wind or weather to affect the results and just one or two choices of distance, up to 25m. I've been to a pipe range occasionally, 100m and one of the very few places where any calibre can be fired, ideal for zeroing but again no wind, no weather and no sense of distance.

A clay club that I belong to puts on a "have a go" event once a year, as part of a large public day out, a really good event for families. Our shooting is always very popular, with nearly 300 people having a go over the two days. We raise a lot of money for a local hospice, we demonstrate to the public that shooting is safe, fun and that we're not a bunch of hooligans, and always end up with a few new members too.

Let's face it, all forms of shooting tend to be a well-kept secret, the general public doesn't know about us and it isn't really accessible to them. If shooting is to grow or even to survive, this needs to change.

I completely agree - especially with your last comment. Good on you for helping to get more people involved! It’s important to break down that perceived exclusivity barrier, which is tricky for non shooting folk to overcome. Personally, I often find that youngsters particularly love shooting if given a chance. More often however, the parents don’t have any connections to access the sport and this seems to be the main problem. 

[London Best]

1 hour ago, GHE said:

 

Let's face it, all forms of shooting tend to be a well-kept secret, 

Because there is not enough of it to go round all those that want to do it!

Except clay shooting and range stuff, of course, which is why these days most folk come into shooting that way.

[GHE]

23 hours ago, London Best said:

Because there is not enough of it to go round all those that want to do it!

Except clay shooting and range stuff, of course, which is why these days most folk come into shooting that way.

Fair point, but even clay and range shooting is quite hard to find out about, although facebook is making it a bit more visible.  These clubs don't exactly shout about themselves, for understandable reasons, and even if people come across them they really need a member to introduce them and shoot with them, at least to get them started. I don't have a solution, but do see it as a problem.

[Penelope]

On 19/05/2023 at 13:43, Scully said:

The biggest threats as I see it to shooting, are pressure groups which will focus and campaign on not only the environment or ‘climate change’, but also those who regard the killing of any sentient being as wrong.
I get the impression ( rightly or wrongly ) there is an increasingly stronger ethical or moral argument for the taking of a life, especially for sport but possibly to a lesser degree, for pest control.
There is an even bigger campaign to stop us killing any living species even to eat. 
The campaign to stop hunting foxes was very successful and a sure vote winner; there is absolutely nothing to prevent similar campaigns regarding other species from gaining momentum, save for the ‘cute factor’ possibly. You can bet your bottom dollar that if the so called upper classes started hunting grey squirrels there would be a campaign to abolish it. 🙂
The irony of the hunting with hounds act is that in my opinion there are many many more foxes killed nowadays due to an increased interest in shooting foxes and a tremendous leap in technology. 
A mate shot over 30 foxes in one week during the recent lambing season. Night vision takes no prisoners. 
Anyhow, am getting off topic. 

The hunting with dogs ban was the worse thing for foxes as a species. More are killed now via lamping,NV, etc. It's so efficient.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

The hunting with dogs ban was the worse thing for foxes as a species. More are killed now via lamping,NV, etc. It's so efficient.

I am not sure that makes sense. It's surely better to be shot than ripped apart?

I see no evidence that the number of foxes are lower as a result of the efficiency of shooting. Where foxes are shot and as a result the numbers in an area were to decline, then surely others are likely to take their place. I suspect that the number of foxes are more likely to be determined by the availability of food source than mans intervention. 

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

I see no evidence that the number of foxes are lower as a result of the efficiency of shooting. Where foxes are shot and as a result the numbers in an area were to decline, then surely others are likely to take their place. I suspect that the number of foxes are more likely to be determined by the availability of food source than mans intervention. 

Personally I think fox numbers are directly proportional to the amount of shooters in a given area.
When I first started there was only myself and another guy on the 1000 acres we had, I tended to only go out Sunday night, and we would both get maybe one a piece, sometimes two.
During lambing Id go out more often, because there were generally more mooching about, and in those days there were lamb losses to them.

Now days , there are people shooting on the peripheries , you can hear shots and callers going, and Im lucky if I get one a month, still nice to be out though.

During the cull , when I get access to farms in other areas, often where no one shoots, there are plenty of foxes, and I can easily take three a night.