This story as made my blood boil

[old'un]

This story as made my blood boil

Apart from the horrific injures caused to the woman and her children by this nutcase, how the hell was this guy still in the UK? the system is broken…...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68167793

[Newbie to this]

Yes, people need to be held accountable for their part in keeping him in the UK.

If ever there was a candidate for a long drop with a sudden stop, it's this ****

Edited February 2 by Newbie to this

[steve_b_wales]

He 'turned' to Christianity, so therefore could not return to his native country as he would be at 'risk'! 

What a total farce. In some countries, you only have to have a record of breaking wind in public and you are not allowed in! 

[old'un]

5 minutes ago, steve_b_wales said:

He 'turned' to Christianity, so therefore could not return to his native country as he would be at 'risk'! 

What a total farce. In some countries, you only have to have a record of breaking wind in public and you are not allowed in! 

What gets me is the government say they are doing all they can to try to stop people like him??? well it seems all they need to say is they have converted to Christianity and its an open door, unbelievable....

[TIGHTCHOKE]

19 minutes ago, old'un said:

This story as made my blood boil

Apart from the horrific injures caused to the woman and her children by this nutcase, how the hell was this guy still in the UK? the system is broken…...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68167793

Quite simply because he was given permission to remain at the THIRD attempt.

[12gauge82]

Like we've been saying in other threads, the woke Brigade are responsible for this. You hear them bleat about human rights, I'd like to see them have that debate with this poor woman and her baby, who's lives have been devastated by someone who shouldn't be here.

Edited February 2 by 12gauge82

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, i presume he was given Legal Aid and a Top class Lawyer 

[welsh1]

9 minutes ago, old'un said:

What gets me is the government say they are doing all they can to try to stop people like him??? well it seems all they need to say is they have converted to Christianity and its an open door, unbelievable..data:image/gif;base64,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..data:image/gif;base64,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

The government are thwarted by the civil service and the judicary who all oppose what the government want to do, and the civil right type lawyers are making a fortune using the appeal system to keep their clients in the country.

You only have to look at the plane load of passengers who managed to get a person who was about to be deported removed from the flight, they thought they were standing up for the oppressed and down trodden, turns out he was a gangster involved in shoot outs in the street with no regard for anyone else.

[JohnfromUK]

"This story as made my blood boil"

Mine too. 

1 minute ago, old'un said:

What gets me is the government say they are doing all they can to try to stop people like him???

The Gov't is in effect the Home Office in this regard with the Home Secretary and Immigration Minister responsible.  His asylum application was dismissed not once but twice.  He was allowed asylum at the third attempt following the advice from a clergyman that he had 'converted' to Christianity.

A former Immigration Secretary was on R4 this morning - and when the Home Office turns down asylum applications, they are appealed to the Courts System.  They are often allowed on appeal.  He had personally had cases where is rejection had been overturned by a judge in Court.  That overrides the Gov't decision.  He didn't know this particular case - but was fairly certain if the applicant had been rejected twice, then the granting of asylum would almost certainly have been done by the Courts as a result of the appeals process.

The simple answer is that the Gov't cannot overrule the Court, but can - in the longer term - change the law.  But as we know over the current Rwanda law change - they have to fight tooth and nail both in the Commons and the Lords to get this done and it takes AGES.

It is no answer saying the Gov't should be able to overrule the Courts - as that in effect becomes a dictatorship - but also the Gov't does need to be able to get laws changes as the electorate wishes without being continuously frustrated by the unelected House of Lords and a shed load of high earning lawyers.

We have a record in recent times of the Courts being much more effective as an opposition than the official "Opposition".  (e.g. Gina MIller over Brexit, Rwanda etc.)

[London Best]

And we all know there are no kid fiddlers in the Christian church, don’t we?

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

This story as made my blood boil

Apart from the horrific injures caused to the woman and her children by this nutcase, how the hell was this guy still in the UK? the system is broken…...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68167793

Saw this as well, absolute disgrace how those responsible sleep at night including the priest, they should be sacked without appeal

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Saw this as well, absolute disgrace how those responsible sleep at night including the priest, they should be sacked without appeal

Better for them to be peeled without a sack!

[old'un]

52 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

"This story as made my blood boil"

Mine too. 

The Gov't is in effect the Home Office in this regard with the Home Secretary and Immigration Minister responsible.  His asylum application was dismissed not once but twice.  He was allowed asylum at the third attempt following the advice from a clergyman that he had 'converted' to Christianity.

A former Immigration Secretary was on R4 this morning - and when the Home Office turns down asylum applications, they are appealed to the Courts System.  They are often allowed on appeal.  He had personally had cases where is rejection had been overturned by a judge in Court.  That overrides the Gov't decision.  He didn't know this particular case - but was fairly certain if the applicant had been rejected twice, then the granting of asylum would almost certainly have been done by the Courts as a result of the appeals process.

The simple answer is that the Gov't cannot overrule the Court, but can - in the longer term - change the law.  But as we know over the current Rwanda law change - they have to fight tooth and nail both in the Commons and the Lords to get this done and it takes AGES.

It is no answer saying the Gov't should be able to overrule the Courts - as that in effect becomes a dictatorship - but also the Gov't does need to be able to get laws changes as the electorate wishes without being continuously frustrated by the unelected House of Lords and a shed load of high earning lawyers.

We have a record in recent times of the Courts being much more effective as an opposition than the official "Opposition".  (e.g. Gina MIller over Brexit, Rwanda etc.)

you obviously have a better understanding of the way things work but in my eyes it is so wrong that this nutcase can just say he's converted to Christianity and will be in danger if he is returned to Afghanistan, so bloody what, bet he would soon change his mind when caught if they offered him prison or free passage back to Afghanistan.

Bloody disgrace, something needs changing before we end up with more like him on our streets.

[Zoli 12 guage]

it baffles me as to why there are only a few in government that are capable of saying that we are in the middle of an invasion aided and abetted by the woke,liberal,hand wringing,UK hating left.

[Zoli 12 guage]

3 minutes ago, old'un said:

you obviously have a better understanding of the way things work but in my eyes it is so wrong that this nutcase can just say he's converted to Christianity and will be in danger if he is returned to Afghanistan, so bloody what, bet he would soon change his mind when caught if they offered him prison or free passage back to Afghanistan.

Bloody disgrace, something needs changing before we end up with more like him on our streets.

can anyone else remember the farce of an excuse from about 5 or 6 years since,that actually got accepted by the courts and he was allowed to stay?

you know the one!???????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HE HAD A PET CAT😡😡

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, old'un said:

you obviously have a better understanding of the way things work but in my eyes it is so wrong that this nutcase can just say he's converted to Christianity and will be in danger if he is returned to Afghanistan, so bloody what, bet he would soon change his mind when caught if they offered him prison or free passage back to Afghanistan.

Bloody disgrace, something needs changing before we end up with more like him on our streets.

The way things work is that whilst the Home Office (acting for the Gov't) may make a decision, it can be appealed.  The Courts hear the appeal (which I think is a judge/judges, no jury) and the various representations .  They then make their decision which overrides the original decision.

IF the judge hears that the appellant has been in some way reformed, rehabilitated, converted such that the original reason for rejecting asylum is no longer applicable, they can overturn the rejection and allow asylum.

Unfortunately, this process is not within the control of anyone other than the judges, and (as far as I can see) there is no way of knowing if the 'story' put by the appellant is true of not.  In many cases you have only the word of the appellant and any who 'back him up'.  Many of these 'criminals' are very very clever conmen and the likes of the clergy are not skilled in spotting conmen.  Similarly - a lawyer will often offer all sorts of reasons why an appeal may be allowed; for example someone claiming to be 'gay' from a country where that would be illegal would have a good case that he would be unsafe if returned home.  How can anyone prove whether he is telling the truth or not?  So he is likely to be given the benefit of any doubt.

Immigration lawyers (in some cases) give advice to clients such as 'losing' all of their original papers etc. where the original papers may show that in fact they would be quite safe ..........

The whole system is so open to abuse and misuse that it is quite unfit for purpose as things stand at present and where lawyers can make huge incomes from what many would see as 'manipulating the system'.

 

[amateur]

17 minutes ago, old'un said:

........

14 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

it baffles me as to why there are only a few in government that are capable of saying that we are in the middle of an invasion aided and abetted by the woke,liberal,hand wringing,UK hating left.

Bloody disgrace, something needs changing before we end up with more like him on our streets.

We already have loads of them on the street, and have done since Tony Blair, aided by his appalling wife, realised that many previously Labour-voting workers had, owing to the benefit of Margaret Thatcher's improvements to their prosperity, switched to voting Conservative. His freeing up of immigration rules and the appointment of left-wing leaning civil servants has ensured this total FUBAR and the likely election of Starmer.

Edited February 2 by amateur
Grammar

[old man]

All done to ensure another vote?

[Newbie to this]

24 minutes ago, old'un said:

Bloody disgrace, something needs changing before we end up with more like him on our streets.

Too late

[12gauge82]

13 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The way things work is that whilst the Home Office (acting for the Gov't) may make a decision, it can be appealed.  The Courts hear the appeal (which I think is a judge/judges, no jury) and the various representations .  They then make their decision which overrides the original decision.

IF the judge hears that the appellant has been in some way reformed, rehabilitated, converted such that the original reason for rejecting asylum is no longer applicable, they can overturn the rejection and allow asylum.

Unfortunately, this process is not within the control of anyone other than the judges, and (as far as I can see) there is no way of knowing if the 'story' put by the appellant is true of not.  In many cases you have only the word of the appellant and any who 'back him up'.  Many of these 'criminals' are very very clever conmen and the likes of the clergy are not skilled in spotting conmen.  Similarly - a lawyer will often offer all sorts of reasons why an appeal may be allowed; for example someone claiming to be 'gay' from a country where that would be illegal would have a good case that he would be unsafe if returned home.  How can anyone prove whether he is telling the truth or not?  So he is likely to be given the benefit of any doubt.

Immigration lawyers (in some cases) give advice to clients such as 'losing' all of their original papers etc. where the original papers may show that in fact they would be quite safe ..........

The whole system is so open to abuse and misuse that it is quite unfit for purpose as things stand at present and where lawyers can make huge incomes from what many would see as 'manipulating the system'.

 

And who makes the laws the judges must follow!

[Zoli 12 guage]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

And who makes the laws the judges must follow!

BRUSSELS/STRASBOURG 

[12gauge82]

Just now, Zoli 12 guage said:

BRUSSELS/STRASBOURG 

You've got a point 😂

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

And who makes the laws the judges must follow!

Parliament sets the law.  The Gov't are currently trying to change laws in immigration (Rwanda) and Parliament - both Commons and Lords - are making that very slow and hard going - and that is for a quite minor change.

Just like on Brexit when a 'previously largely unknown' person called Gina Miller caused all sorts of delay, doubt and huge expense - we have similar happening again. 

The whole 'establishment' of the legal profession, civil service, Courts system not to mention a shed load of 'influencers' (I don't really understand who they are but they have loads of 'followers' and are well funded) has - both on Brexit and immigration - become a much more effective 'opposition' than "His Majesty's Loyal Opposition" - who being led by a (he claims now former) republican are unlikely to fit the 'loyal' description.

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, i presume he was given Legal Aid and a Top class Lawyer 

apparantly £56,000 quid

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

BRUSSELS/STRASBOURG

I am not sure that is the case here, but we certainly have a lot of 'carried over' rules and since we left the EU (and I'm not convinced we have fully left) we have retained many of those carried over rules.

It is my impression that much recent law is much more open to challenge on various grounds.  I suspect that some of the blame for that may rest with the EU because;

• EU law was written to be used under the multiple different legal and judicial systems operated by different 'member states'.
• It was very probably written in another language and so may have lost clarity and focus in translation
• Because it has to be used by 'member states' under their own judicial systems, often test cases are used to define the detail by case law.  This means having test cases to 'probe for loopholes and errors' to put in bluntly.  It is hugely time consuming and expensive as it often elevates up the legal courts pyramid of appeals and results in a very slow system and with great complexity of detailed case law which may end up being different in different 'member states'.

Having a central Parliament used to pass laws to be operated by different judiciaries in different 'member states' does indeed seem like a recipe for a system that will end up bogged down in detail and strangled by red tape - but that is the EU all over.

Certainly it cannot be right or sensible that we have (publicly funded) appeals fighting the (publicly funded) Home Office - all the money going to the pockets of the legal profession and judiciary and making decisions that (to quote the thread title) 'makes the blood boil' for a large part of the electorate.