Farage

[Raja Clavata]

7 hours ago, Mungler said:

You didn’t just say that. Seriously? That’s brilliant.

One of my clients is an industry leading energy consultant. For years he has been saying that net zero is practically impossible, no one actually understands what it means or it entails and it’s financially and economically crippling to even attempt to get there, and all against a backdrop of it being utterly pointless in the UK against a global backdrop.

Let’s start with the easy one - do you want chapter and verse on how fundamentally economically crippling net zero would be? Do you agree that pursuing net zero will have an immediate negative adverse impact? Why are governments in Europe abandoning net zero targets?

Are you saying that the adverse economic impact of net zero is outweighed or sufficiently counteracted by all the new green industry measures (forcibly) coming over the horizon? 

There is a massive industry in sustainability, I don’t know exactly what percentage of our annual revenue gets tagged against it but it’s several billion Euros in my organisation alone.

I asked for details to be able to discuss in detail rather than cast wild aspersions.

You’ve mentioned your anonymous leading energy consultant client before, next time you speak to him ask him for the latest costs per MW/hr for each of the electricity generation methods, you might be surprised.

Of course reaching net zero with current technology is impossible, that’s why it’s a target.

Are you seriously suggesting continuing to remove carbon based fuels from the ground and releasing the carbon back into the atmosphere is our best bet?

Part of the government technology and industrial strategy was to position the U.K. at the forefront of the transition towards net zero. Defining a blueprint, leading by example and reaping the benefits by selling the technology and know how to other countries.

Are you suggesting that the cost of energy in this country is 100% attributable to investment in green technology and related initiatives?

One thing I think we do agree on is that we really messed up on our nuclear energy strategy, that was pretty tragic.

The basic issue is if you don’t believe there’s a problem then of course there’s no need to fix it. I admire yours and others ability to see such complex issues in black and white justifying complete dismissal or denial despite counter evidence and scientific opinion.

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Why is it common sense for the UK to try to achieve net zero? It isn't possible, so why are we going down the "we can only try" road. Our pathetic idea of reducing gases is to export the problem to another country. Sadly the wind isn't up to speed and refuses to contain pollution to a particular country. Few seem to grasp that we live on a planet. 

It's embarrassingly obvious, but it doesn't stop people peddling this nonsense.

Well if you never start then for sure you’ll never get there.

Think of all the things mankind has achieved which when the idea was first conceived was considered impossible.

Rings of boiling frog syndrome to me.

1 hour ago, armsid said:

I think both parties are scared how much Farage is liked by the electorate (look how Trump won hearts in USA elections) as voters get fed up of the lies underhand dealings and disregard for this country by the poliyical elite. Time to let a patriot who loves the UK have a go. He cannot do worse than the out going or the incoming lot who care not for UK PLC.

Do true patriots have passports from two different countries?

[Raja Clavata]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Why would it be a concern?

They aren't an extreme party, and could never command a huge majority, the demographics of the UK would never allow it.

They are a counter weight to the left, what the tories should have been , but they decided to appeal to all persuasions,  and pleased none.

This is not how an opposition works, and the tories will become an also ran, albeit with more MPs than Reform this time, but once Labour mess up...

Don’t get me wrong, I’m certainly not relishing a Labour government but perhaps a combination of 4 years of Labour and the rise of Reform will be enough to force the Tories to sort their shop out.

I genuinely believe the referendum was called by Cameron to crush the threat of Farage and co. splitting the Tories. Irrespective of our differing views on Brexit it’s surely ironic that 8 years later that’s precisely what Farage is doing again. Thanks Dave, you’re a legend and will go down in history.

[ditchman]

9 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m certainly not relishing a Labour government but perhaps a combination of 4 years of Labour and the rise of Reform will be enough to force the Tories to sort their shop out.

I genuinely believe the referendum was called by Cameron to crush the threat of Farage and co. splitting the Tories. Irrespective of our differing views on Brexit it’s surely ironic that 8 years later that’s precisely what Farage is doing again. Thanks Dave, you’re a legend and will go down in history.

Cameron dont care one bit....he is minted tro' insided dealing....he's Lordy cams now

he is a piece of upper toff excrement........

[bostonmick]

starmer and labour are no friends of the countryside.he has already said he wants full cost for firearms.your license fee could be in the hundreds.he is in favour of destroying our agricultural land with his changes to planning laws.putting inheritance tax on farms will drive farmers into oblivion.our land will be covered in pylons solar panels and houses for our good friends the small boat boys and our borders will be thrown wide open to all.look at your current pay slips as once ge gets his mits on your earnings you will long for the tax you used to pay. then there is the council tax he wants to revalue so doubling your current cost.better the devil you know 

Edited June 23 by bostonmick

[Gordon R]

Quote

Well if you never start then for sure you’ll never get there.

Let's colonise Mars. Stupid idea - bit like net zero - but, hey, if we don't start. 🙂

[JohnfromUK]

22 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

starmer and labour are no friends of the countryside.he has already said he wants full cost for firearms.your license fee could be in the hundreds.he is in favour of destroying our agricultural land with his changes to planning laws.putting inheritance tax on farms will drive farmers into oblivion.our land will be covered in pylons solar panels and houses for our good friends the small boat boys and our borders will be thrown wide open to all.look at your current pay slips as once ge gets his mits on your earnings you will long for the tax you used to pay. then there is the council tax he wants to revalue so doubling your current cost.better the devil you know 

.......... and they will all (or nearly all) vote Labour at future elections.  Next step in the Blair/Mandleson project for a Labour one party state.  The vote will be given to any EU state member who is here at the time of the poll (another Labour plan for. one party state).

[enfieldspares]

23 hours ago, oowee said:

I think for Putin it would be a wet dream to see Farage as PM. As leader of the Brexit party he voted against EU controls on Russian propaganda.

Now if he were not leader of Reform he would be working on the Trump election. Trump, Fico, Orban le Penn and Farage are the ways in for Russia, peas from the same pod, prepared to sing from the Kremlin hym sheet. Only last week Medvedev spoke of Russias objective to destabilise the west and create mistrust through propaganda. 

Everyone who supported Brexit blames the negotiators or the EU (ie everything and anything else) for the desperately poor and crippling outcome. None seem to blame or accept their part in this act of self harm. 

It's a falasy to think our future rests in the hands of elected leaders. We are a tiny country that will be swept along and pushed around by those stronger than us. Including the EU, US and China.

This. +1.

[Raja Clavata]

15 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Let's colonise Mars. Stupid idea - bit like net zero - but, hey, if we don't start. 🙂

Stone the crows. I rest my case. 

[Raja Clavata]

20 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

This. +1.

And of course pulling back on the transition towards net zero plays into Putins hands too.

Putin must dread to think where his country would be if there was less demand for his oil and gas.

Hardly takes critical thinking to see a pattern emerging here.

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

There is a massive industry in sustainability, I don’t know exactly what percentage of our annual revenue gets tagged against it but it’s several billion Euros in my organisation alone.

I asked for details to be able to discuss in detail rather than cast wild aspersions.

You’ve mentioned your anonymous leading energy consultant client before, next time you speak to him ask him for the latest costs per MW/hr for each of the electricity generation methods, you might be surprised.

Of course reaching net zero with current technology is impossible, that’s why it’s a target.

Are you seriously suggesting continuing to remove carbon based fuels from the ground and releasing the carbon back into the atmosphere is our best bet?

Part of the government technology and industrial strategy was to position the U.K. at the forefront of the transition towards net zero. Defining a blueprint, leading by example and reaping the benefits by selling the technology and know how to other countries.

Are you suggesting that the cost of energy in this country is 100% attributable to investment in green technology and related initiatives?

One thing I think we do agree on is that we really messed up on our nuclear energy strategy, that was pretty tragic.

The basic issue is if you don’t believe there’s a problem then of course there’s no need to fix it. I admire yours and others ability to see such complex issues in black and white justifying complete dismissal or denial despite counter evidence and scientific opinion.

Nuclear all the way. Also a big fan of EVs.

Indeed, anything that will send the Middle East back to being an obscure region of goat herders gets my vote - the world will become a quieter place.

But pound for pound, wind and solar in this country a waste of time and money.

Bankrupting the Country or rather putting the Country to extreme global economic disadvantage for the inconsequential changes / gains - that’s political craziness; indeed, the politicos spout green / net zero to virtue signal for the headlines but then reverse back when the reality and the bill arrives.

 

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

And of course pulling back on the transition towards net zero plays into Putins hands too.

Yes, with regret, I agree that net zero should be encouraged. Not for any environmental concerns as I believe that nuclear power is the way to achieve it but so as to end the vice grip of OPEC and other non-OPEC nations. The sooner we can end reliance of Russian gas the better and the absolute nonsense of then burning gas to generate electricity. Near 70% of French electricity is generated by nuclear power.

https://www.rte-france.com/en/eco2mix/power-generation-energy-source

Edited June 23 by enfieldspares

[Shadowchaser]

14 hours ago, Robden said:

I think it's a cycle, the planet goes through every few hundred or so years. Humans are not the cause, but are certainly adding to it. What would the population be like without cancer, covid etc, and wars?  The more people there are, the more resources like houses, food etc needed. 

Let's not forget that the Earth has been both extremely hot and extremely cold in the past. 

The Romans had vineyards as far north as York and Cumbria.  Could you grow grapes successfully in a vineyard in Cumbria today? I doubt it very much.  In another cycle people will be able to skate on the Thames again like they did in the Victorian era.  

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Let's colonise Mars. Stupid idea - bit like net zero - but, hey, if we don't start. 🙂

That's just daft Gordon, let's colonise the solar system of our next closest star, it'll tax us back to the stone age and we may never achieve it, certainly not in our lifetime but you've got to start somewhere.

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, Shadowchaser said:

Let's not forget that the Earth has been both extremely hot and extremely cold in the past. 

The Romans had vineyards as far north as York and Cumbria.  Could you grow grapes successfully in a vineyard in Cumbria today? I doubt it very much.  In another cycle people will be able to skate on the Thames again like they did in the Victorian era.  

and we are at the beginning of the next ice age...

[Yellow Bear]

1 minute ago, ditchman said:

and we are at the beginning of the next ice age...

No that was the 1980s scare story.

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

Yes, with regret, I agree that net zero should be encouraged. Not for any environmental concerns as I believe that nuclear power is the way to achieve it but so as to end the vice grip of OPEC and other non-OPEC nations. The sooner we can end reliance of Russian gas the better and the absolute nonsense of then burning gas to generate electricity. Near 70% of French electricity is generated by nuclear power.

https://www.rte-france.com/en/eco2mix/power-generation-energy-source

Theory/practice difference there old bean.

The current pursuit of net zero makes us more dependent on Russian gas, not less.

UK equivalent of your link is here, not looking good for alternatives on an overcast, muggy Sunday night.

If I may be so presumptuous, I suggest what you mean is alternatives to burning gas in particular, but petroleum products in general is to be encouraged.  The current insane path towards the immeasurable, unquantifiable, 'net zero' will only get us there by accident, and at great cost.

3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Hardly takes critical thinking to see a pattern emerging here.

So, to be clear...pull our own oil out the ground, actually reducing (global) carbon emissions whilst doing so, and make less dependent on Putin, somehow makes it the 'wet dream' for Putin?

It's a bit like this idea that reducing tax rates can actually increase tax revenue, given the right circumstances.  A lot of otherwise intelligent  people will be so ideologically opposed to it that they won't give it a fair hearing in their mind.

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Let's colonise Mars. Stupid idea - bit like net zero - but, hey, if we don't start. 🙂

Given the technologies that emerged from the space race/cold war last time, not least of which is the internet, which is currently enabling this conversation, I say let's get cracking.

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

No that was the 1980s scare story.

we will be entering another ice age ..FACT...the northern hemisphere gets warmer...the ice melts...the salinity of the ocean gets less the warm current that looks after the UK will divert as a result ...and it will start to cool in the north.....

[Stonepark]

21 minutes ago, ditchman said:

we will be entering another ice age ..FACT...the northern hemisphere gets warmer...the ice melts...the salinity of the ocean gets less the warm current that looks after the UK will divert as a result ...and it will start to cool in the north.....

 

[oowee]

I read that three more Reform candidate's have come out in support of Russia. Maria Zakharova also endorses Farage today (Russian Defence ministry), an illuminating endorsement. 

How convenient that Reform is not set up as a political party and as a company can hide its income. 

A vote for Farage looks more like a vote for Putin everyday. 

[Yellow Bear]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

A vote for Farage looks more like a vote for Putin everyday. 

But we already know that a vote for Starmer is a vote for von der Leyen.

[Penelope]

On 22/06/2024 at 22:04, Raja Clavata said:

I’ll move if my local seat is taken by Reform. And if reform ever form government I’ll most likely take a foreign work assignment whilst they are in power.

Put a good word in for me for your Arena ticket, then, please.

On 23/06/2024 at 05:47, Robden said:

I think it's a cycle, the planet goes through every few hundred or so years. Humans are not the cause, but are certainly adding to it. What would the population be like without cancer, covid etc, and wars?  The more people there are, the more resources like houses, food etc needed. 

Mmmm, arable farming on Greenland; grapes growing in the North of England!

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

Put a good word in for me for your Arena ticket, then, please!

I’ll never give that ticket up. Would love to have you on there mate but it would require regime change, can’t even bring guests currently 😡

I’ll drop you a line, catch-up overdue.

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

A vote for Farage looks more like a vote for Putin everyday. 

Genuine, non-snarky question; How big an issue is Putin/Russia/Ukraine with the electorate, really?  I think it scores pretty low outside London. 

The reality is, what happens in Ukraine is determined by the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, not 10 Downing St.

Incidentally, don't forget Tice was driving in an 'aid convoy' to Ukraine a few months back, for which he got much stick (rightly IMHO).

2 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

But we already know that a vote for Starmer is a vote for von der Leyen.

🤣  First electoral mandate she's had.

 

 

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

I read that three more Reform candidate's have come out in support of Russia. Maria Zakharova also endorses Farage today (Russian Defence ministry), an illuminating endorsement. 

How convenient that Reform is not set up as a political party and as a company can hide its income. 

A vote for Farage looks more like a vote for Putin everyday. 

 

The truth is Oowee, the average Reform UK candidate has life experience, common sense and an above average appreciation of world affairs, as they generally don't rely on the MSM to spoonfeed them the propaganda that the elites wish passed on .... something it appears you could learn from......

 

Reform UK being set up as a company is a non-issue... better a registered company that submits annual accounts to HMRC as well quarterly/monthly accounts to the Electoral Commission (which incidently approved the company set up)........than all the secretive labour/cons committees which operate behind closed doors and then get overridden by central party again doing things in secret and not in the open.

 

A vote for Farage is a vote for Farage.... if you want to vote for Putin, you will need to move to Russia to be able to do so......