Billionaire Hit Job

[old man]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I'm 'out of my depth' - but the Telegraph reported "While exploring the Bayesian 165ft underwater on the seabed, it was reported that the vessel’s retractable keel was partially raised, raising questions about the boat’s stability at the time of the sinking." and "large superyachts are typically fitted with a lifting keel, allowing part of the keel to retract inside the vessel and reduce the draft. In such a case, the stability of the vessel is greatly diminished." and “Part of the investigation will, therefore, look into the keel. It is important to note that, even if found partially up, this could result from the impact with the bottom of the sea as the vessel sank, so early external observations may not be sufficient to draw conclusions.”

Also the Telegraph in an earlier article  “If it turns out that this keel was retractable, and that was its condition during this accident, then that would change your stability condition a great deal and would probably bring the pendulum effect of the mast into play.

“It doesn’t change what should be standard responses to bad weather at anchor, such as tracking forecasts, keeping a good visual look out and then when it happens, checking the upper deck for watertight integrity/security, starting your engine, taking the weight off the anchor and so on. It just makes them even more important.”

The ship "Sir Robert Baden Powell" - also a sailing vessel - was nearby and (quote from Mail)

"The Sir Robert BP, a Dutch sailing ship which had been anchored close to the Bayesian, rescued the fifteen survivors.

Its captain, Karsten Borner, said his own vessel was battered by very strong gusts in the early hours of the morning, but that he managed to stabilise it while anchored by using the engine.

The crew later noticed the Bayesian nearby and manoeuvred to avoid hitting it.

'We managed to keep the ship in position, and after the storm was over, we noticed that the ship behind us was gone."

My thought is that the anchor watch, (not yet mentioned but surely a necessity anyway?) Had nipped off and was playing hookey somewhere?

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, old man said:

My thought is that the anchor watch, (not yet mentioned but surely a necessity anyway?) Had nipped off and was playing hookey somewhere?

Allegedly the anchor dragged for 16 minutes.  The nearby "Sir Robert Baden Powell" also dragged anchor and the two followed similar paths.  The Sir RBP had to use it's engines to stay in place.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13769241/Bayesian-shipbuilder-claims-crew-16-minutes-warn-passengers.html

Edited August 22 by JohnfromUK

[old man]

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Allegedly the anchor dragged for 16 minutes.  The nearby "Sir Robert Baden Powell" also dragged anchor and the two followed similar paths.  The Sir RBP had to use it's engines to stay in place.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13769241/Bayesian-shipbuilder-claims-crew-16-minutes-warn-passengers.html

Thanks John but can't/won't view it. Not paying.

[islandgun]

I was talking to the owner of a large yacht a few days ago, he had sailed from Brittainy and our small marina was his last stop before St Kilda. he also had a lifting keel, which allowed him into harbour. Without the counter weight and draft of the yacht as in the o.p, it would be susceptible to being knocked down in a high wind

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, old man said:

Thanks John but can't/won't view it. Not paying.

It's a free page (well it is for me anyway).  I don't pay either.  In the Mail, some pages are pay and some are free.

[old man]

Just now, JohnfromUK said:

It's a free page (well it is for me anyway).  I don't pay either.  In the Mail, some pages are pay and some are free.

Maybe just me but they want money every time?

[Yellow Bear]

3 minutes ago, old man said:

Maybe just me but they want money every time?

Same here

[JohnfromUK]

15 minutes ago, old man said:

Maybe just me but they want money every time?

OK.  Sorry, I can't paste the actual time lapse image as it is a video. 

The jist is that a nearby (half a mile or so) vessel around the same size called Sir Robert Baden Powell with a Dutch master, dragged it's anchor in the storm.  The satellite positioning records shows both Sir RBP and Bayesian both dragging the same courses for 16 minutes.  The master of the Sir RBP had to start his engines to stop the anchor dragging as the storm was very fierce.  He claims that the Bayesian must have dragged anchor for 16 minutes - which gave him plenty of time to start the engines on his boat and regain control.  I assume that dragging anchor would raise an alarm on Bayesian, but I don't know how these things are handled?

I think you can view the video here;

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/threads/56m-luxury-sailing-yacht-sinks-off-sicily-7-missing.247750/page-7

[enfieldspares]

There's a vicious wild tiger lives in my house.

I know this as I can sense him on the landing outside my bedroom at night. Fortunately he's more afraid of me than I am of him. And when, as I do, I get up a night to go for a "pee" he quickly runs away and hides before I get to the door and open it. So I've never seen him. But he is there...I know it...

Of course the simple explanation is that there isn't a tiger, there never was a tiger and there never will be a tiger. But why spoil the matter. If in doubt "Occam's Razor" is useful to apply. Sometimes the simple explanations are the best as they are the correct ones.

Edited August 22 by enfieldspares

[old man]

13 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

OK.  Sorry, I can't paste the actual time lapse image as it is a video. 

The jist is that a nearby (half a mile or so) vessel around the same size called Sir Robert Baden Powell with a Dutch master, dragged it's anchor in the storm.  The satellite positioning records shows both Sir RBP and Bayesian both dragging the same courses for 16 minutes.  The master of the Sir RBP had to start his engines to stop the anchor dragging as the storm was very fierce.  He claims that the Bayesian must have dragged anchor for 16 minutes - which gave him plenty of time to start the engines on his boat and regain control.  I assume that dragging anchor would raise an alarm on Bayesian, but I don't know how these things are handled?

I think you can view the video here;

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/threads/56m-luxury-sailing-yacht-sinks-off-sicily-7-missing.247750/page-7

Thank you.

[old man]

13 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

There's a vicious wild tiger lives in my house.

I know this as I can sense him on the landing outside my bedroom at night. Fortunately he's more afraid of me than I am of him. And when, as I do, I get up a night to go for a "pee" he quickly runs away and hides before I get to the door and open it. So I've never seen him. But he is there...I know it...

Of course the simple explanation is that there isn't a tiger, there never was a tiger and there never will be a tiger. But why spoil the matter. If in doubt "Occam's Razor" is useful to apply. Sometimes the simple explanations are the best as they are the correct ones.

Using that Razor it cuts to negligence somewhere maybe?🤔

Luxury boat, no anchor watch? Oops?

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, old man said:

Using that Razor it cuts to negligence somewhere maybe?🤔

This. +1

[ShootingEgg]

I have just seen on sky news that the yacht sinking might become a manslaughter investigation... They gonna charge the weather?!?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

29 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

I have just seen on sky news that the yacht sinking might become a manslaughter investigation... They gonna charge the weather?!?

I suspect they will probably charge the surviving crew members.

 

[JKD]

The investigations will be taking a minimum of 6 months apparently,,,, so plenty of time for more guesswork and assumptions 😏

[steve s×s]

On 22/08/2024 at 09:22, steve s×s said:

Maybe just maybe there is a God 

In the light of resetnt events, it looks like someone working for the almighty 

[hushpower]

Hit job 100%  i think. Hole in the hull?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Interesting;

"Questions are being asked as to why six passengers died while all but one of the crew – the boat’s chef, a Canadian of Antiguan origin – managed to escape the sinking ship and survive.

Investigators want to establish whether the captain and crew tried to raise the alarm and evacuate the sleeping passengers from their cabins.

Data from the ship’s Automatic Identification System or AIS reportedly shows that there was a 16-minute period between the storm hitting the 184ft-long Bayesian at 3.50am on Monday and the vessel sinking at 4.06am.

At a press conference on Saturday in the town of Termini Imerese, about 15 miles from where the yacht sank, prosecutors confirmed that they were investigating charges of multiple manslaughter and causing a shipwreck against “unidentified persons”.

[12gauge82]

I would guess most of the crew would have been awake and working due to the storm, while passengers would be sleeping at that time in the morning. I would also guess there might be reluctance to waking up a billionaire owner and his guests at 4a.m, until it was possibly too late. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

20 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I would guess most of the crew would have been awake and working due to the storm, while passengers would be sleeping at that time in the morning. I would also guess there might be reluctance to waking up a billionaire owner and his guests at 4a.m, until it was possibly too late. 

Well unfortunately I would have to GUESS and disagree with you.

If the crew had been doing their jobs the tragedy may not have happened.

It does seem strange that all but one of the crew got away with their lives.

[Zoli 12 guage]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

I would guess most of the crew would have been awake and working due to the storm, while passengers would be sleeping at that time in the morning. I would also guess there might be reluctance to waking up a billionaire owner and his guests at 4a.m, until it was possibly too late. 

isn't the sole priority of the crew to ensure the safe operation of the vessel AND to ensure the safety of the passengers🤔

AND,if that means waking up the "passengers" a la Titanic,at an ungodly hour,then that is what should have been done q

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well unfortunately I would have to GUESS and disagree with you.

If the crew had been doing their jobs the tragedy may not have happened.

It does seem strange that all but one of the crew got away with their lives.

There wouldn't be discussion if everyone agreed 👍

25 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

isn't the sole priority of the crew to ensure the safe operation of the vessel AND to ensure the safety of the passengers🤔

AND,if that means waking up the "passengers" a la Titanic,at an ungodly hour,then that is what should have been done q

That should be their first priority. But of course real life can get in the way of what should happen. 

I've an open mind on this from murder to a freak accident. 

But my guess and it is a uneducated guess, is likely an avoidable accident. With most of the crew surviving due to being awake, while passengers slept. 

[Dougy]

Sleeping on board through that storm  

No way in this world of pigs puddin would they have been asleep.. 

[enfieldspares]

I was offered a job maybe now fifteen years ago on one of these swank river cruise boats. The money was good and I was then invited to come and view one of the boats when it was docked in Paris. So along I go and got the full tour. Last I was shown my accommodation which was a single cabin so now gripes with that and as they said with a full size four foot wide by three foot high window. Except when I actually went and inspected it the water was half way up that three foot window and the cabin had an inwards opening door. So I politely declined the position. Window "goes" if it gets put through as the boat moors along a dock or quay and you are in bed asleep at night and you are not getting out.

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, Dougy said:

Sleeping on board through that storm  

No way in this world of pigs puddin would they have been asleep.. 

Don't know, it probably wasn't their first storm and it could have hit very quickly, even if they awakened, by the time they got dressed and realised there was anything seriously wrong, the ship could have been on its way down before they left their cabins.