Need Help ? , Or Can Some Members Help Themselves More ?

[marsh man]

I have now been a member for around ten years and found most members will go out of there way to help you out if you have got a problem and I would do the same if I could help them out in any way with building work or anything I am familiar with .

As I don't need it I have never asked about how you go about it by picking up shooting land , mainly Pigeon shooting , unless the member who is asking is extremely lucky the chances of another  member living fairly close and is in the position to offer him some shooting is pretty remote , in most cases, the only way he is going to find some land is to go out and look for it , we all had to do it at some stage in the time we had spent Pigeon shooting , it might be a taunting task but it can be done , we can offer them advice in how to go about it with knowing what crop is what and when to look around to see what crops the Pigeons are feeding on and those sort of things , after that it is up to op to first find the Pigeons , then to find out who own or farm the land and last but not least is to go and knock on his door , there is hardly no way around it as you need permission off the landowner and not someone you don't even know say it is alright .

This also apply with joining a wildfowling club , with the power of the internet it is easier now than ever , most clubs have a website and contact number with a online form to fill up , so why ask how do I get in touch with a certain club ?,  fair enough if there is no information on line but I wouldn't have thought there are many clubs that are not online , failing that it is dead easy to get in touch with B A S C and ask where is the nearest club to wherever you are hopping to join one .

This is not aimed at any particular member but I was thinking how some ( mainly new ) members can help themselves a bit more than they seem to be doing .    MM

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Laziness.   

[ditchman]

we live in a world where folk now are not prepared to put the hard work in to get what they want.........

they expect either

1. to buy it off Amazon
2. or bid for it on e-ba
3. or ask and it shall be given

[Westley]

Why work for it when someone will do it for you  ?    🙄

[oowee]

I started shooting when I retired. Within 3 years i was shooting full time and I had amassed around 20000 acres. There was so much available that i could be selective. It has been my pleasure over the last 12 months to get others to pick up the shooting. If I can come back it will still be there. 

[Bigbob]

We put the work in and we where out on a different farm nearly every weekend just slowing down now to old age and in all my shooting life not a penny has changed hands to rent land 

[marsh man]

I have always thought that  throughout my life that if I wanted something bad enough and within reason I would work hard until I got it , or if I didn't get it then it wasn't without trying my hardest . 

With shooting , maybe I was born in a different era than today but with the lack of transport you had to look for shooting on your doorstep , the wildfowling side was no problem as the estuary then was free shooting and I only lived a couple of hundred yards from where our boatshed was where our gun punts were kept , also the G Y W A had there meetings at the pub down the end of our road so maybe we were lucky for that sort of start.

Pigeon shooting was a bit harder as the North Sea was one side and the countryside was on the other side , the nearest farm grew Peas and in the early days we had very little knowledge of decoying Pigeons , but we plucked up courage and went to ask the farmer if we could keep the Pigeons off his Peas , he gave us the go ahead and that very first perm ended up giving us a lifetime of good shooting , he was a fairly big farmer with well over a 1000 acres and over the years we were invited to driven English Partridge days , walked up Pheasants and very good wildfowling on the marshes which half the land I still go fowling on by myself , when he passed away I asked his two boys if it was still alright if I shot on the marshes , they said yes of course you can , they told me there father told them once that he let me go on the marshes as I would keep anyone else off and it have now been well over 50 years they have never had any problem with trespassing , they are not short of money and for letting me go for a bottle of drink at Christmas they know there marshes are safe from anyone shooting while I am going on , so you never know what that first knock on the door will bring as far as shooting go .     MM

 

[Bigbob]

I worked as a ranger in the forestry commission and when i got married i left the house was in the middle of nowhere and my future kids would of been like something out of deliverance , But my old boss moved to the tree grant scheme and anywhere he went that had a rabbit problem while he was checking the land out for a planting grant said i know a boy that will sort them out and i ended up with a lot of land thanks to him them i ran a advert in a farming mag offering pest control and got a lot of land from that . we didnt half put in the milage but as it was good ground we got good bags and often the farmers next door would stop and speak and say you can do mine great old day i would probably still get on a lot of those farms but these days you hardly see a rabbit 

[clangerman]

if you knock a farmers door with no kit on board when 200 pige are mowing his crop your no use to him and just wasted his time! 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 hours ago, clangerman said:

if you knock a farmers door with no kit on board when 200 pige are mowing his crop your no use to him and just wasted his time! 

But, conversely, turning up in full camo gear with your gun over your arm is the wrong way too.

[Rim Fire]

9 hours ago, clangerman said:

if you knock a farmers door with no kit on board when 200 pige are mowing his crop your no use to him and just wasted his time! 

This 

If you drive around when the pigeon or crow are doing damage that's when your most likely to get permission 

i shoot over 80000 acres of land . a lot of this came about by doing moles for farmers charging half price but having permission to shoot the foxes as part of the deal 

also i am helping to do some keepering on an estate  where i gained permission to do some stalking and a first for me salmon fishing.   as you know i also shoot boar again that's because they are causing damage and i can do them a service  apart from the moles i have never charged a penny  i even had a keeper call me other week and said can i help him with the foxing on his shoot  just wish i was a lot younger 

[marsh man]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But, conversely, turning up in full camo gear with your gun over your arm is the wrong way too.

We all do things differently and a lot would depend on what time of the day you call round , I would never give the landowner the impression I am in a hurry to shoot his Pigeons , it been a long while now since I have asked a landowner for Pigeon shooting , many years ago I made a self imposed limit where I wouldn't go much over 15 miles for my Pigeon shooting , then after getting the first few perms it was never any bother getting more and more , both me and my brother got two early estates for Pigeon shooting and these provided the bulk of our shooting , as time wore on we got the various farms along the border of these estates , at the time we came across very few people who were well into Pigeon shooting and around our way it is still like that , yes there are people who go but only when there are a lot of Pigeons on the stubbles , I know for a fact that we get very few inquiries about Pigeon shooting on the estate where I worked for thirty years as the inquiries would come to me in the first place , the odd ones I have had I know the people and they are welcome to go on whatever day they wanted to go  , I can assure you that there is still a lot of perms out there if you are prepared to seek them out in the proper manner .    MM

[HantsRob]

To be fair, I am friends with a member on this site. He's polite, eloquent, and has printed his own business cards. Having heard of the woes of going door to door and knocking on maybe hundreds of farmer doors, I feel his pain about trying to get a permission.

In a world of not knowing many (if any) pigeon shooters, none willing to share or give advice on who may help, it's not just daunting but in many respects impossible in some parts of the country. 

I was fortunate that @ooweetook me out for a day, and I learned so much from him and am so grateful for that opportunity. Partly it was a case of don't ask, don't get. Partly I had tried asking in all the places I shot (5 different locations at the time) and none would help with any pigeon advice. So I asked here. I know your post wasn't aimed at me by the way! I'd also be honoured to go out with oowee again, top top company.

By your last most MM, once you have a permission then your word of mouth can really help! But, I also find that many people hold onto too many permissions and don't shoot them enough, and rather than sharing, they keep them and the landowner is reluctant to let a second person shoot it.

It's really difficult, and I am sure there are perms out there. In Hampshire having seen a few friends spend so many hours driving around dropping cards, knocking on doors, and emailing, it really can be super difficult for that first step into it.

With all that said, I do think some people just post here without doing any effort for themselves, and I agree with the sentiment they can do more for themselves.

[London Best]

All our local farmers tell the same story. Week in, week out they are all sick of people (strangers) knocking their doors asking for shooting.

[Rim Fire]

i have now got permissions on farms that i tried years ago but they said no at the time they obviously didn't have a problem then it's about catching them when they do have problems if they are cereal growers then it will be crows or pigeons sheep farmers will be Foxes at lambing time dairy farmers again crows in the sheds feral pigeons 💩 in the feed permission is very hard to come by so when you get some you don't let go

[oldypigeonpopper]

33 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

i have now got permissions on farms that i tried years ago but they said no at the time they obviously didn't have a problem then it's about catching them when they do have problems if they are cereal growers then it will be crows or pigeons sheep farmers will be Foxes at lambing time dairy farmers again crows in the sheds feral pigeons 💩 in the feed permission is very hard to come by so when you get some you don't let go

Hello, Do not forget ratting 👍 , Now is the time they will come off  the fields to find food around Dryer barns and cattle barns and feed sheds, Hay and Straw barns, My friends farm comes under the Red Tractor Farm Assurance and my part of that is Pest Control, Obviously night time is best so you need to know the Farmer is happy to allow this nocturnal shooting, Had my first go last night in many weeks due to not being to good, a short visit of checking around baiting up with old wheat and got 15 rats, , Now heres a thing , Why rats do not like Barley or Hiding in Hay bales ????, You do not need spend a fortune on night vision or a spotter, a red torch works on day scope with a night vision spotter , But it is pest control so a reasonable night kit is worth getting once you have permission that will be long term, In over 20 years here I have lost count of rats killed but it must be 1000s 

Edited September 5, 2024 by oldypigeonpopper

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

All our local farmers tell the same story. Week in, week out they are all sick of people (strangers) knocking their doors asking for shooting.

I dare say we are back to locations and supply and demand , if you are in a highly populated area with very little space for shooting then the people living nearby are going to find it difficult in seeking out a permission , thankfully this is something I have never had to contend with , there isn't any point of me keep saying how you can obtain shooting as we have heard it all before , but although we are on the coast and can only shoot inland we have four wildfowling clubs no more than twenty miles away , I don't know about the membership situation with two of the clubs as I have never had any reason to inquire but the other two clubs have got a huge amount of first class wildfowling marshes , gundog training , clay pigeon shooting and a lot of land for Pigeon shooting , I have been in both clubs and are very good value for the cost of the membership which I believe work out at less than a fiver a week .

Only the other day I met a chap I know who like me is getting well past his prime , straight away the subject of the conversation got on about shooting , he knew I did a bit of Pigeon shooting and he was saying him and his wife went for a walk beside one of the clubs fields that had just been cut for Pea seed and there were Pigeons everywhere and not a person to be seen , this land is shared between the two clubs which at a guess would be just over 200 members and yet very few of the members are moderate to serious Pigeon shooters , In the past I have shot this land and had the good fortune of shooting all the farmers upland as well , I made it a habit of not shooting the club land on a Saturday in case anyone else wanted to go and as I had all the week then it was only fair to leave the land alone , many a time I would be shooting nearby on a Saturday and would be going past Pigeon shooting fields on the way home and very often the field would have a lot of Pigeons working on it with not a person in site , so where are all these people looking for shooting , strange whenever any shooting come available on the forum it never seem to be on the doorstep for those who are looking for it .  MM

[HantsRob]

36 minutes ago, marsh man said:

strange whenever any shooting come available on the forum it never seem to be on the doorstep for those who are looking for it .  MM

It's as frustrating when it does come up locally, and they then don't reply to PMs! I can only assume swamped with messages!

I do enjoy reading your posts. I had never considered a wildfowling club doing gundog training! 

[Cranfield]

I suspect most of those members that have quite a lot of acreage to shoot, are available Mon to Fri.
This coverage is appreciated by Farmers and it has got me lots of permissions, in fact I don't shoot Sat/Sun (as there are enough weekend warriors about🙂).

The first permission is often the hardest, but once you have it, you can use it as a reference to get more, especially neighbouring farms.

The best time to ask is when the birds are on the crops, you can refer to particular fields then.
Ask for a day on the birds, don't intimate that you want a lifetime permission.
If you get a day and are not a nuisance, you can ask for another one.
If you get a knock back, ask if the Farmer would mind if you asked again, perhaps when its more convenient.

It is better IMO to be alone when you ask, a friend can always be added when you have got the Farmers confidence.
Turning up in a group, even two, can often appear intimidating.
Farmers are suspicious of strangers, especially with rural thieves and the dog brigade about.

Imagine yourself as a Farmer and behave and dress as you would want a prospective shooter to do.

I have got a lot of permission by speaking to farm workers and asking them what the boss is like and how they merit your chances, when the best time to call in the farm, etc.

None of the above advice is "rocket science" its all mainly just commonsense.

 

[marsh man]

2 hours ago, HantsRob said:

It's as frustrating when it does come up locally, and they then don't reply to PMs! I can only assume swamped with messages!

I do enjoy reading your posts. I had never considered a wildfowling club doing gundog training! 

I would say that a good retriever used for wildfowling is just as important as the gun you use and very often more so , most wildfowling is done over tidal water and very often done in bad light so having a good gundog is a must and I vowed many , many years ago that I would not go after wildfowl without a dog and since my early 20s I have never been without at least one Labrador and at nearly 77 I have still got one sitting beside me now , 

Most clubs now run gun dog training and at the local game fairs Like Sandringham they have inter club competitions with many excellent trained gun dogs taking part.

1 hour ago, Cranfield said:

I suspect most of those members that have quite a lot of acreage to shoot, are available Mon to Fri.
This coverage is appreciated by Farmers and it has got me lots of permissions, in fact I don't shoot Sat/Sun (as there are enough weekend warriors about🙂).

The first permission is often the hardest, but once you have it, you can use it as a reference to get more, especially neighbouring farms.

The best time to ask is when the birds are on the crops, you can refer to particular fields then.
Ask for a day on the birds, don't intimate that you want a lifetime permission.
If you get a day and are not a nuisance, you can ask for another one.
If you get a knock back, ask if the Farmer would mind if you asked again, perhaps when its more convenient.

It is better IMO to be alone when you ask, a friend can always be added when you have got the Farmers confidence.
Turning up in a group, even two, can often appear intimidating.
Farmers are suspicious of strangers, especially with rural thieves and the dog brigade about.

Imagine yourself as a Farmer and behave and dress as you would want a prospective shooter to do.

I have got a lot of permission by speaking to farm workers and asking them what the boss is like and how they merit your chances, when the best time to call in the farm, etc.

None of the above advice is "rocket science" its all mainly just commonsense.

 

I would go along with what you were saying 100% , just to add that when you do get possibly your first perm and any others come to that is to never take anyone else until you know it is all right to do so , the landowner have given YOU permission and not your mates , remember it is very hard to get a perm and very easy to lose it , so keep a clean sheet and other perms are sure to follow .    MM

[clangerman]

1 hour ago, Cranfield said:

 

The best time to ask is when the birds are on the crops, you can refer to particular fields then.
Ask for a day on the birds, don't intimate that you want a lifetime permission.

Imagine yourself as a Farmer and behave and dress as you would want a prospective shooter to do.

 

spot on nailed it my muddy landie pulling up with gun dog on the front seat me dressed to go with kit on board is exactly what a farmer with pige prob wants to see last time I heard no farmer was a anti 

[HantsRob]

30 minutes ago, marsh man said:

 I have never been without at least one Labrador and at nearly 77 I have still got one sitting beside me now , 

Most clubs now run gun dog training and at the local game fairs Like Sandringham they have inter club competitions with many excellent trained gun dogs taking part.

I am looking to get a lab in the coming years, and would want to train it to pick up and be well behaved. I haven't researched yet, and partly shame on me for not doing so and asking, but I am curious if I should invest in a gundog training school, or invest in a wildfowling club and use them for training. Or maybe a hybrid? I am not asking for help but always open to an opinion. 

I look at other breeds of gundogs but I always come back to a lab! ❤️ Professionally curious, do you find girls or boys better, or is it all down to the individual dog? 

[Smudger687]

6 hours ago, London Best said:

All our local farmers tell the same story. Week in, week out they are all sick of people (strangers) knocking their doors asking for shooting.

What else are they supposed to do? 

People on here call shooters lazy for not getting out and knocking on doors, yet when you do go and knock on doors farmers almost universally view you as a nuisance.

I've helped on a pheasant shoot, I've even helped on a pheasant rearing farm, as have friends of mine, all with the promise of pigeon shooting in the off-season. It has never materialised for any of us, it's just the carrot that gets dangled in front of us to keep us helping out.

Unless you know the right people, pigeon shooting is a closed club that you're not joining. 

[London Best]

5 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

Unless you know the right people, pigeon shooting is a closed club that you're not joining. 

You just have to get to know the right people. 
Some are lucky and get to know the right people straight away. 
Others take years, often decades. 
Some will never be accepted.

[clangerman]

42 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

What else are they supposed to do? 

People on here call shooters lazy for not getting out and knocking on doors, yet when you do go and knock on doors farmers almost universally view you as a nuisance.

I've helped on a pheasant shoot, I've even helped on a pheasant rearing farm, as have friends of mine, all with the promise of pigeon shooting in the off-season. It has never materialised for any of us, it's just the carrot that gets dangled in front of us to keep us helping out.

Unless you know the right people, pigeon shooting is a closed club that you're not joining. 

it’s not dislike luck or any other excuse if you knock a farmer with a 100 reasons to say yes eating a crop and it’s still no your doing something wrong it’s that simple mate