old man Posted September 30 Report Share Posted September 30 4 hours ago, marsh man said: Not sure if all John Collier's windows were the same but the one we had in the town had a curved window which was the length of the shop and it was about four feet off the ground , I wondered if that was why they called it the window to watch . MM Kept the dog wee off the glass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 30 Report Share Posted September 30 Not yet but imminent I fancy. Summer quilt swapped for the autumn/spring one a couple of nights ago though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 I have been feeling cold inside the house in recent days and looked back at the indoor temperature records (because I have an interest in clocks, I have a record of the daily temperature in the hallway where they are). These are the temperatures for today (5th October) for different years. No heating on yet in any year. 2020 - 57 Degrees (Fahrenheit) 2021 - 59 2022 - 60 2023 - 60 2024 - 55 2024 is the coldest of the last 5 years by a reliable margin. These should be pretty accurate as it is a high grade wall hung mercury/pressure type thermometer and has been in a consistent place out of any sunlight all the time and the temperature read at a fairly consistent time of day (around 08:00). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 On 30/09/2024 at 08:10, 12gauge82 said: Mrs sets our thermostats to 23c permanently, we use about £15 a month gas and electric including standing charge all yeah round. Cricky you must be on some kind of subsidised heating system. My standing charge is about 36 pounds a month before I switch anything on. From Auntie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 22 hours ago, 100milesaway said: Cricky you must be on some kind of subsidised heating system. My standing charge is about 36 pounds a month before I switch anything on. From Auntie About like mine. I am thinking about their reasons(excuses) ready for when us oldies start falling off our perches due to starvation and hypothermia this winter? My favourites so far indicate to age related disease and viruses. A surefire winner? A party for the people? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 Hello, I just hope we do not have a very cold winter as i can see it affecting millions of Pensioner who have lost the WFP many disabled or home bound and need to heat their homes day time and night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, I just hope we do not have a very cold winter as i can see it affecting millions of Pensioner who have lost the WFP many disabled or home bound and need to heat their homes day time and night Surely if disabled (on disability benefit) they will still be entitled to the WFP… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 3 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Surely if disabled (on disability benefit) they will still be entitled to the WFP… Not all disabled are on DB. Too proud for their own good some. 1 close to home. She needs heat when she needs it. A can of big worms now open. Of course he doesn't consider pensioners worth a **** anyway as few votes are involved. Man for the people? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 12 minutes ago, old man said: Not all disabled are on DB. Too proud for their own good some. 1 close to home. She needs heat when she needs it. A can of big worms now open. Of course he doesn't consider pensioners worth a **** anyway as few votes are involved. Man for the people? 🤔 The wife’s parents are the same, both would qualify but say they don’t want to claim as “someone else probably needs it more than us”… They don’t listen when I tell them it doesn’t work like that. I think they like to be martyr’s tbh. Many who could qualify should start applying… will end up costing the Government more but at least they’ll then be getting what they’re entitled to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 20 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Surely if disabled (on disability benefit) they will still be entitled to the WFP… Hello, Not as many as you would think ?, Couples or single people who are a few £s over the financial threshold do not qualify yet still need a warm home as they cannot get out like those in fair health Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 12 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: The wife’s parents are the same, both would qualify but say they don’t want to claim as “someone else probably needs it more than us”… They don’t listen when I tell them it doesn’t work like that. It's called pride - and it used to be admired and respected. People took pride in being able to be independent and look after themselves without 'begging' from others of 'taking charity'. Nowadays the 'rabble' who run the country have substituted greed for pride and even the very well paid get every free suit (for themselves and their wife), free accommodation, free use of holiday flats, even free glasses. It genuinely sums up the utter dregs who now run the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 1 hour ago, old man said: Not all disabled are on DB. Too proud for their own good some. 1 close to home. She needs heat when she needs it. A can of big worms now open. Of course he doesn't consider pensioners worth a **** anyway as few votes are involved. Man for the people? 🤔 Then that's there own fault if they are prepared to bite their own nose to spite their face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: It's called pride - and it used to be admired and respected. People took pride in being able to be independent and look after themselves without 'begging' from others of 'taking charity'. Nowadays the 'rabble' who run the country have substituted greed for pride and even the very well paid get every free suit (for themselves and their wife), free accommodation, free use of holiday flats, even free glasses. It genuinely sums up the utter dregs who now run the country. Absolutely. Kier Starmer anyone? On 05/10/2024 at 11:44, 100milesaway said: Cricky you must be on some kind of subsidised heating system. My standing charge is about 36 pounds a month before I switch anything on. From Auntie I make more electricity than I can use all year round and pay standing charge for the privilege of being connected to the grid and providing electricity for others. I have a lpg boiler as a backup but my solar in the summer and a log burner connected to a heat store provide all the free heat and hot water I could ever need from my own free supply of trees. It's a nice feeling being self sufficient and not at the behest of the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 1 hour ago, Rim Fire said: Then that's there own fault if they are prepared to bite their own nose to spite their face You must be braver than me, she is extremely brave, self reliant and in control of everything she can in her life. 2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: It's called pride - and it used to be admired and respected. People took pride in being able to be independent and look after themselves without 'begging' from others of 'taking charity'. Nowadays the 'rabble' who run the country have substituted greed for pride and even the very well paid get every free suit (for themselves and their wife), free accommodation, free use of holiday flats, even free glasses. It genuinely sums up the utter dregs who now run the country. Their level of greed and ignorance is truly astounding, maybe a true indication of the level of worth to the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsid Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 What gets me is the fact people arriving in dinghies are given all the help that we have to apply for without asking due to our woke civil servants putting the world before our own (who provided the money they are giving away) Lloyd 90 i admire your inlaws for their stance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 5 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: Absolutely. Kier Starmer anyone? I make more electricity than I can use all year round and pay standing charge for the privilege of being connected to the grid and providing electricity for others. I have a lpg boiler as a backup but my solar in the summer and a log burner connected to a heat store provide all the free heat and hot water I could ever need from my own free supply of trees. It's a nice feeling being self sufficient and not at the behest of the government. Interesting and good on you. From Auntie Interesting observation from Katie Hopkins who maintains that the cost of gas and electric are being intentionally hiked as a form of rationing. Food for thought. From Auntie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 She is right on the hike, but it's for the lunacy of net zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 8 hours ago, 100milesaway said: Interesting and good on you. From Auntie Interesting observation from Katie Hopkins who maintains that the cost of gas and electric are being intentionally hiked as a form of rationing. Food for thought. From Auntie Free market. Electricity wholesale price is directly linked to gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussexboy Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 43 minutes ago, oowee said: Free market. Electricity wholesale price is directly linked to gas. That statement needs expanding upon as it is too simplified to tell the story. The free market is not the problem, because it is not a free market, it is a rigged market. The wholesale price of electricity is based upon the price of producing the last KWh to meet the demand. The last units are normally produced by gas powered generators with high costs. This means that every producer gets paid that inflated cost rather than their actual operating cost. It’s great for renewable suppliers, but not so great for the customers who pay higher prices and an extra green levy on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 16 minutes ago, Sussexboy said: That statement needs expanding upon as it is too simplified to tell the story. The free market is not the problem, because it is not a free market, it is a rigged market. The wholesale price of electricity is based upon the price of producing the last KWh to meet the demand. The last units are normally produced by gas powered generators with high costs. This means that every producer gets paid that inflated cost rather than their actual operating cost. It’s great for renewable suppliers, but not so great for the customers who pay higher prices and an extra green levy on top. In what way rigged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussexboy Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 11 minutes ago, oowee said: In what way rigged? The way I naively understand a free market is that price is based upon a balance of production costs versus what the consumer will accept as the price of the product. Therefore the consumer is allegedly in the driving seat as it were because price is driven by lowest cost. This is the old fashioned pile it high sell it low approach. In the electricity energy market the price to the consumer is driven by highest unit production cost, even if that is the smallest percentage of unit production in the mix. Hence the market is “rigged” in favour of the lowest cost producer because the relationship between low cost and low price is broken and the market is no longer free. We end up with the pile it high sell it high market we find ourselves in. The word “rigged” may not be the correct interpretation of the situation, but it works for me. 😁 It’s a long winded way of saying that the wholesale price of electricity is linked to gas, but not in the way that would be obvious. I think that it would be difficult to change the way the market works as any change would most likely reduce the price per unit that renewable producers receive. The governments of any type we seem to be inflicted with lately are probably not that brave. We shall see. Reform of the market is needed but it is a can of worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 2 hours ago, Sussexboy said: It’s a long winded way of saying that the wholesale price of electricity is linked to gas, but not in the way that would be obvious. The 'problem' here is that there is both a variable 'demand' for electricity - and a variable supply pool, both of which are not very easy to predict with great accuracy. Since the supply industry has to always ensure 'demand' is met, the demand led system of spot prices does this, which in a slightly round about way links to gas as being the most reliable and flexible supply. Demand varies on a daily cycle being lower at night and peaking during the day and evening, but also varies with weather conditions (and will do more so as electricity is used more for heating). Supply is quite complicated as there are so many different sources Nuclear is predictable - it was expensive to build, but is cheap to operate and operates 24 hours a day consistently (though needs some long planned outages for maintenance, refuelling etc. which are often planned for summer). Combined Cycle Gas Turbine (CCGT) is the main gas generators and is predictable and reliable - but depends on the gas price for cost. Wind is very unpredictable and can be near zero when the whole country is under a big high pressure region - and that does occur in winter often combined with being clear and cold at night. Solar is predictable in that it's off at night, but unpredictable in what it can do by the day - and can be hard to forecast to accurate timings Hydro - the UK has relatively little and pumped hydro is used as a 'buffer'. There are also interconnects bringing in spare, or sending out surplus power to other countries (France, Holland, Ireland, Norway etc.). These are also not very reliable as understandably they suffer the same fluctuations in demand with time of day and weather as we do. You can see here http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ where the UK's power comes from throughout the day. The result of all this is that the spot price is used and the operators bring on the more expensive capacity when it is needed to meet demand, hence the spot price can be very volatile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussexboy Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 I look at gridwatch fairly often. I totally agree that the supply is a complex model. I also think that a simplistic price structure based on the highest production cost is essentially unfair to the consumer. It is a tough nut to crack though as you need to be fair to producers and consumers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 @Sussexboy As you and @JohnfromUK say its a complex situation. Not least because of the hedging involved. The big six hedging upto two years ahead. It is clearly a market with many buyers and sellers between providers and users. Rigged it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpredder Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 4 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: The 'problem' here is that there is both a variable 'demand' for electricity - and a variable supply pool, both of which are not very easy to predict with great accuracy. Tidal energy supply could be predicted quite accurately (Canute said something along those lines 1000 years ago), and it is certainly much more predictable than wind, solar, wave, etc. There is a great deal of energy in the Pentland Firth, and the Severn Estuary has a very large tidal range (rise and fall). The Rance scheme is Brittany has been generating electricity for nearly 60 years. Is there any ongoing tidal energy development in UK? There are certainly some drawbacks (eg siltation associated with tidal barrages), but are they insurmountable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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