Beaver Bombing

[Mice!]

11 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

After the years of hardwork to get the reds established in Grisedale that really boils my urine !

that has really got my goat up !

Agriv8

There's belief from Scotland and Ireland that PMs help, but the fear is that smaller numbers of reds will be more affected by any losses, FE very much wanted the PMs, and now there there in numbers.

Lots of greys there as well.

[islandgun]

It's the same arragonce that introduced rabbits and foxes to Australia. Boar and stoats to NZ. Buoyed by the like of wj with info shared on line, animal lovers can feel all warm at the thought of an introduced predator munching on a few ground nesting birds or red squirrels

[ratchers]

As a red squirrel guardian in north cumbria, our group weren't to thrilled by the thought of pine martens, I don't suppose a PM will bother whether its a red or grey squirrel it eats.

[islandgun]

7 minutes ago, ratchers said:

As a red squirrel guardian in north cumbria, our group weren't to thrilled by the thought of pine martens, I don't suppose a PM will bother whether its a red or grey squirrel it eats.

Neither will the animal lovers

[enfieldspares]

The boot is on the other foot. We had the same in the 1980s or so with illegal release of zander and, of course, in the 1990s the illegal release of muntjac. OK the decades my not be quite as it was but so called "sportsmen" released both zander and muntjac way away from where the then natural spread of their range extended to. Pike too probably throughout all the last sixty years. But definitely the two first mentioned. 

Edited December 9 by enfieldspares

[Stonepark]

I think there is a lot of soap boxing here..... There are native species which were wiped out locally and nationally and are being reintroduced, a lot of which is over due.... Such as beaver, otters, lynx, wolves, bears, pine martins, red kites, red squirrels, etc etc and in many cases being hamstrung by over regulation.

And then there is releasing non-natives, such as Coypu, mutjac, grey squirrels, mink, Zander, etc which could never get here naturally.

 

On a side note it is indeed easier for Pine Martins to catch grey squirrels due to their heavier weight, they can't get out in the foliage as far and feed on the ground more often.

[old man]

10 hours ago, Mice! said:

There's belief from Scotland and Ireland that PMs help, but the fear is that smaller numbers of reds will be more affected by any losses, FE very much wanted the PMs, and now there there in numbers.

Lots of greys there as well.

Just simple mathematics bud, smaller numbers must take a larger hit?

Not in clown world seemingly?

Martens like all predators are largely opportunistic so anything smaller and edible is on the menu?

[Mice!]

11 hours ago, Stonepark said:

On a side note it is indeed easier for Pine Martins to catch grey squirrels due to their heavier weight, they can't get out in the foliage as far and feed on the ground more often.

That's always stated as the argument,  I've watched videos of Martens catching reds, it doesn't matter about the weight of the squirrel once the chase is on. Then the biggest issue is that PMs are largely nocturnal hunters and massively opportunistic,  so a drey full of kits is a nice meal regardless of the colour.

I'm very on the fence with Pine Marten, they cover a huge area, but areas where I shoot I know there are very small numbers of reds, two, three or four, losing one or two is a massive hit.

Have you seen the Osprey footage? PMs climbing up and taking the eggs, unbelievable given where the nests usually are.

4 hours ago, old man said:

Just simple mathematics bud, smaller numbers must take a larger hit?

Not in clown world seemingly?

Martens like all predators are largely opportunistic so anything smaller and edible is on the menu?

Yes mate, and the red squirrel groups weren't consulted which didn't go down well.

[islandgun]

13 hours ago, Stonepark said:

I think there is a lot of soap boxing here..... There are native species which were wiped out locally and nationally and are being reintroduced, a lot of which is over due.... Such as beaver, otters, lynx, wolves, bears, pine martins, red kites, red squirrels, etc etc and in many cases being hamstrung by over regulation.

And then there is releasing non-natives, such as Coypu, mutjac, grey squirrels, mink, Zander, etc which could never get here naturally.

 

On a side note it is indeed easier for Pine Martins to catch grey squirrels due to their heavier weight, they can't get out in the foliage as far and feed on the ground more often.

Native species perhaps but native to a byegone country of open spaces and forest, not urban sprawl, intensive agricultue and a quickly diminishing number of small mammals and birds that dont need another predator

Edited December 10 by islandgun

[Gordon R]

Quote

Native species perhaps but native to a byegone country of open spaces and forest, nor urban sprawl, intensive agricultue and a quickly diminishing number of small mammals and birds that dont need another predator

That is the relevant point.

[Old farrier]

12 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Native species perhaps but native to a byegone country of open spaces and forest, nor urban sprawl, intensive agricultue and a quickly diminishing number of small mammals and birds that dont need another predator

I wonder what the population of the UK was when the last beavers wolves bears ect disappeared compared to now 

for any reintroduction to work land management and farming practices have to change in order to provide a habitat and food source all the way down the line 

otherwise the countryside will be full of predators that are starving to death 

[Scully]

50 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Native species perhaps but native to a byegone country of open spaces and forest, nor urban sprawl, intensive agricultue and a quickly diminishing number of small mammals and birds that dont need another predator

Good post.

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

Native species perhaps but native to a byegone country of open spaces and forest, not urban sprawl, intensive agricultue and a quickly diminishing number of small mammals and birds that dont need another predator

I was talking to a fella on the Thames fishing in the summer, he was saying that Red Kites are a big problem around the pheasant pens, keep in mind that as we were talking there were 5 or 6 at least floating around above us, magnificent birds but there numbers have really boomed and they are still spreading with them being seen in Lancashire now. They were scavengers but they'll obviously eat other things as well.

PMs have also been released in Dartmour, personally I'd have done that and gauged how they affected the ecosystem there with no threat to red squirrel numbers.

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, islandgun said:

Native species perhaps but native to a byegone country of open spaces and forest, not urban sprawl, intensive agricultue and a quickly diminishing number of small mammals and birds that dont need another predator

They only have to watch Jurrasic Park to understand the implications of trying to reverse engineer evolution. 

It's a bit of a silly example but the core principle still holds good.

[scolopax]

Goshawks were illegally released to establish our current population so the practice is nothing new. Likewise no doubt for Euro Eagle Owl, although less successfully 

[ditchman]

On 10/12/2024 at 12:22, Mice! said:

I was talking to a fella on the Thames fishing in the summer, he was saying that Red Kites are a big problem around the pheasant pens, keep in mind that as we were talking there were 5 or 6 at least floating around above us, magnificent birds but there numbers have really boomed and they are still spreading with them being seen in Lancashire now. They were scavengers but they'll obviously eat other things as well.

PMs have also been released in Dartmour, personally I'd have done that and gauged how they affected the ecosystem there with no threat to red squirrel numbers.

red kites were known tobe at pest proportions during tudortimes ...flocks of them scaverging in the dirty streets

[old man]

16 hours ago, ditchman said:

red kites were known tobe at pest proportions during tudortimes ...flocks of them scaverging in the dirty streets

Well that's an eco win then, they can mop up all of the oldies who have perished over winter due to lack of heat and food? Saves the council money?

[parivrajaka]

I know a chap geezer who does beaver bomb legally.but it involves tannerite and dams.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Welcome to pigeon Watch.

[parivrajaka]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Welcome to pigeon Watch.

Thank you sir,it's a better welcome than I got from my sibling ditchy.

[ditchman]

9 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Welcome to pigeon Watch.

he 's from the other side.dave.......leave melb3 to deal with him