Why Do Locals Think They Have The Right To Roam

[Windswept]

I've had this several times as a land owner. A couple of times genuine mistakes and a couple of times people knew what they were doing. They were all experienced shotgun users so I don't think its a new thing. 

In your case I would think it was for the land owner to sort. If you can get their name or a pic that would help and I would expect much easier for the landowner to deal with the offender or police?

[old'un]

28 minutes ago, millrace said:

You lost your cool started arguing with another individual who could have recorded you on land you do not own,nowadays that won't end well,unfortunately thats the reality of these situations,  unless you are the actual land owner you will be portrayed as angry unstable firearms owner.

How do game keepers stand in this situation?

[Rim Fire]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, Have you any written Permission from the Land Owner, ?? How did he access the Land ??, With the Owner permission you could put up a sign/s Private Land, No Trespassing etc, Then if he is found to be there with an Air Rifle i would phone the Land Owner and he can phone Police, If they came you can show them your written Permission as the one only allowed to Shoot on said Land

I have written permission which is always carried in my car when i visit this place just in case i get stopped with any Deer or boar in my vehicle on way home   

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

If you had rang the police that chap would have certainly made some allegation against you , you might have got a bit heated and started to swear at him or threatened to do this or that , either way your guns would had been removed for a length of time and we would be talking about months and not weeks , nowadays it is very easy to lose your certificates and very , very hard to get them back . MM

This is what went through my mind when we was arguing 

[Rim Fire]

i have just been contacted by the owner and he said he is putting up more signs saying private land so there will be excuse if he dose it again 

[Red carp]

Might be worth notifying NRW ( don’t give your name ) tell them do you realise that people are shooting on their land they then will have to act on it, as NRW are anti shooting on their land it’s time they policed it.

Edited Thursday at 12:13 by Red carp

[johnphilip]

31 minutes ago, Scully said:

🙂👍

It's  like the wild west up here. 😉

[marsh man]

35 minutes ago, old'un said:

difficult one, some years back I was walking round with the rifle after rabbits when I bumped into two lads with air rifles that did not have permission, after laying the law down and telling them I would phone the police next time, with a few choice words from them they went on their way, two days later I get a phone call from the farmer telling me the father of one of the lads had been to see her and gave her a mouthful, turns out the lad had told his father they were just walking across the fields and someone with a gun had told them to get off but they did not mention they had guns, luckily the farmer just told the him she knew nothing about it.

On my next visit to the farm I went and had a chat with her about it, she was very nice but said she thought it best if I stop shooting on the farm as she did not need the upset.

Just to add, 3 years later I was back on the farm when she phoned me to say there were blacks hitting her newly sown maize and asked me if I could sort them out.

That is the problem nowadays , the farmers and landowners have got enough to contend with without the agro from people in the village or from neighbours , look at the amount of complaints they get when they put gas guns to near a housing estate , they are lumbered , you cannot use a gun without the same people moaning and then if you stuck a gas gun out then they moan even more , private signs means very little as you would never hear about anyone going to court for trespass over farmland , armed trespass yes but not just walking , you only have to look at the thread I put on about the Hare Coursers going over the Fenland farmland without any visit from the police , if the land owner had said he thought one of them might had a gun then things might had been different but then the land owner would have had a lot of sleep ness nights afterwards with visits from the near by C / C .   MM

[ditchman]

i think we are all barking up the wrong tree..........my belief of the real reason this is happeningand other things is .............

because...people now have the belief of they have the power to do anything they want without redress.......this has happened as a result of the woke approach to EVERYTHING over the last few years....THE PEOPLES RIGHTS   

this has continued into the populace and the police are politically aware they are not to persue indesretions.....

society is society because at one time people followed rules ....starting from the 10 commandments  ...unless rules are followed a breakdown in society will happen....as is happening now....

[millrace]

Police do not attend trespass  its a " cival"offence so total waste of time,

Suspected "armed tresspass" now thats a completely different phone call!! ( just sayin 😉)

[millrace]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

How do game keepers stand in this situation?

Exactly the same  lose your cool lose you access to guns! Thats way it is now!

As for the landowner bit, only the landowner can 100% verify if someone has permission no matter what paperwork you have signed, i know of one example where a person believes he has sole access he does as per agreement with owners son, but the actuall older farmer has long let a few good friends of his have access and will continue to untill he passes away nowt written about it,that just how old boys do things!!

[Westley]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

How do game keepers stand in this situation?

I think you may find that most Gamekeepers know the local Police and would therefore have contacted them immediately,  before even approaching the offenders. They would then observe and possibly film the offender, in order to gain evidence for a conviction. 

Edited Thursday at 12:49 by Westley

[Rim Fire]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

I think you may find that most Gamekeepers know the local Police and would therefore have contacted them immediately,  before even approaching the offenders. They would then observe and possibly film the offender, in order to gain evidence for a conviction. 

You probably  would have been  right some years ago as some know I do gamekeeping as well we had the caravan club on the estate back in the autumn the local boby as used to be has closed now they got to come an average  of 6 miles when they got there the gentlemen  was 4 fields off the public  path with terriers  and long dogs all he said was please keep to the path and take you vehicles  off the field after this I spent a week sleeping  in my car at night because  of the feeders and other equipment and the pheasants 

[Westley]

5 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

You probably  would have been  right some years ago as some know I do gamekeeping as well we had the caravan club on the estate back in the autumn the local boby as used to be has closed now they got to come an average  of 6 miles when they got there the gentlemen  was 4 fields off the public  path with terriers  and long dogs all he said was please keep to the path and take you vehicles  off the field after this I spent a week sleeping  in my car at night because  of the feeders and other equipment and the pheasants 

This is something that has happened for years though. I remember a Keeper finding a note pinned to his rearing field shed, "we have poisoned your feed bin". This was after a run in with said CC members and their long dogs. That incident occurred 40 years ago. I know the local Keepers here have a good working relationship with the Police.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

local Police and would therefore have contacted them immediately,  before even approaching the offender

Is the correct answer to this whole thread!!

[Rim Fire]

58 minutes ago, Penelope said:

Is the correct answer to this whole thread!!

He would have been gone long before  they got there at least by me putting  a flea in his ear he might not come back

Edited Thursday at 15:40 by Rim Fire

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, marsh man said:

We had a chap who live near our estate who is a market gardener , he fired his gun from his house one day at some Pigeons that were eating some young crops , he didn't think anymore about it and put his gun back in his kitchen and carried on with his work , a short time later the arms response team arrived and he had to lay out on the floor while they searched his house ,as the gun was still in his kitchen they charged him and he spent most of that day and night in the police station , it ended up his neighbour who lived on the other side of the field reported he had fired his gun towards her house , they even sent the forensics to look for any shot marks on the brickwork which of course they didn't find any , anyhow , I don't think he was ever charged with anything and his partner kept ringing up the law to see when he will get his guns back as it affecting his lively hood , well to cut this long story short , he didn't get them back , he could ,or should had appealed but as he didn't in the time frame he have more or less lost them forever .   MM

What did he expect shooting a shotgun towards someone's house, even if it wasn't at the house, it was in a garden and must have upset or disturbed the neighbour. 

Heavy handed response yes, and a totally different situation to someone wandering on land they don't have permission to be on with a rifle. ( and yes I did it when a kid, but times are very different now)

[marsh man]

13 minutes ago, Mice! said:

What did he expect shooting a shotgun towards someone's house, even if it wasn't at the house, it was in a garden and must have upset or disturbed the neighbour. 

Heavy handed response yes, and a totally different situation to someone wandering on land they don't have permission to be on with a rifle. ( and yes I did it when a kid, but times are very different now)

He never fired his gun anywhere near his neighbours house , he fired at some Pigeons that were on his crops and the house was on the other side of his field , him and his parents have farmed his land for generations and never had any problems in the past , it was simply that his neighbour said he fired a gun towards there house , the police never found any evidence and they never charged him with anything , if you were out Pigeon shooting and someone said you fired a gun towards them which frightened there dog even if they were double the range of a shotgun cartridge you would still more than likely lose your guns until you were proven innocent , which could take months if not a year or so .    MM

[Dougy]

Similar thing happened to me week before last, sat in a high seat watching Muntjac through thermal. Rifle on the rest on the ready, scoped into the area were this Muntjac was and then back on thermal for a quick scan round in case another popped out i hadn't seen. Stuff me 4 mountain bikers coming down the ride, way off the public footpath, as they got close i lifted the rifle off the rest as they road past i just shook my head. 

Nothing said or i would have not held back if they had of mentioned public right of way. 

[marsh man]

50 minutes ago, Dougy said:

Similar thing happened to me week before last, sat in a high seat watching Muntjac through thermal. Rifle on the rest on the ready, scoped into the area were this Muntjac was and then back on thermal for a quick scan round in case another popped out i hadn't seen. Stuff me 4 mountain bikers coming down the ride, way off the public footpath, as they got close i lifted the rifle off the rest as they road past i just shook my head. 

Nothing said or i would have not held back if they had of mentioned public right of way. 

Problems with walkers and the general public at large started in earnest when the pandemic first went into lockdown , the public had loads of time on there hands and the weather was nice , so for exercise they went hiking and if they had a dog then they would take that along as well , most of them didn't know what was on there doorstep and after a while many of then began to wandered off the footpaths , I had a word with a few of them in a friendly manner and after I told them we had Beatle banks , wildflower mix and conservation areas that they didn't want the public and there dogs walking through it , most of them said sorry they didn't realise what was what and I told them and very often showed them where the footpaths were and they could see the wild flower mix along the paths and in the nice weather they should see several Butterflies , now things have settled down a lot and most of stick to the foot paths but you will always get the odd one.    MM

[12gauge82]

I think at the bottom of it all we are over populated. There are other issues already mentioned, but we're a small island running out of space with a far more diverse population all with their own ideas, principles and way of life. Undoubtedly as the country fills up, friction will increase, whether it's fisherman and kayakers, landowners, dog walkers and ramblers, gardeners and cat owners, or motorists and cyclists, to name a few. 

[Red carp]

40 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think at the bottom of it all we are over populated. There are other issues already mentioned, but we're a small island running out of space with a far more diverse population all with their own ideas, principles and way of life. Undoubtedly as the country fills up, friction will increase, whether it's fisherman and kayakers, landowners, dog walkers and ramblers, gardeners and cat owners, or motorists and cyclists, to name a few.

👍

[Wymondley]

45 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think at the bottom of it all we are over populated.

Is pretty much the answer to 90% of all problems.

[Dougy]

59 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think at the bottom of it all we are over populated. There are other issues already mentioned, but we're a small island running out of space with a far more diverse population all with their own ideas, principles and way of life. Undoubtedly as the country fills up, friction will increase, whether it's fisherman and kayakers, landowners, dog walkers and ramblers, gardeners and cat owners, or motorists and cyclists, to name a few. 

I dont agree that this is a good enough excuse for those that should not be where they are not allowed to be. Some of us still know what is and what is not right. That is the difference, some people just don't give a dam. 

[Westley]

34 minutes ago, Dougy said:

I dont agree that this is a good enough excuse for those that should not be where they are not allowed to be. Some of us still know what is and what is not right. That is the difference, some people just don't give a dam. 

How right you are. I fish a reservoir with a dam situated at one end. Clearly displayed at each end of the dam, on the closed gates, are signs stating anglers only on the dam. The public footpath that runs at the base of the dam, on the opposite side is also clearly marked. This is to prevent any injury to people, caused by anglers backcasts,  when fishing off the dam. Needless to say, the signs are completely ignored, and people walk along the top of the dam. Trying to explain why they risk injury, is pointless. Even to the point of being told we should not be backcasting on a footpath. Joe Public........thick as pig manure  !

[Dougy]

Years ago out lamping fox's and just to be different i took my 30.06 as you do, anyway there was a landrover 90 lamping on my perm, we knew it was there but they didn't know we were. I took the mod off and asked my mate to light up the 90 while i shot into the ground to the side. 

Didnt see them after that,