Government responds to 2023 firearms licensing consultation

[HantsRob]

15 hours ago, Smudger687 said:

I have told you on more than one occasion that unless BASC (given that you are the largest shooting org in the UK)

I have told we on more than one occasion that unless BASC (given that we are the largest shooting org in the UK)

 

edit: Fixed from your last post. Changing you to we. First one is silly of course, however Smudger is surely a member of BASC, he's not employed or representing BASC, so "we" wouldn't make sense in either case?

 

2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC's resources depend largely on its membership - are you a member?

Don't you mean "are we a member"?

2 hours ago, Smudger687 said:

You know full well I'm a member.

"We" know full well. Apparently. 

2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Thanks, not sure how I am supposed to know 'full well' that you are a member - not least when you use the language 'you' for BASC rather than 'we'. Furthermore, you are getting same day replies from me on a forum. I'd say that's good service and certainly not 'company man non-responses'. 

Above.

Said mostly for laughs.
However, you represent BASC in every way.
Smudger is "only" a paying member, who also doesn't share the same view as BASC. I am not surprised they wouldn't use "we" when they are not BASC or have their opinions (or ironically what appears to be the voice of the actual shooters) reflected by BASC.

 

For fairness and balance, "we" are getting a same day reply. Granted. 
Is it a good service if a question is not answered? This is the issue with metrics, they suit a purpose, but replying to everyone within 1 day is not as good as giving everyone the information they requested/required in 2 days.

 

 

Conor, I get your game, I understand the rules. This post is light relief for.... we. Non-BASC public forum, non-BASC member, and have an opinion even if it may be right or wrong.

[Penelope]

Martin Daubney on GB News is just about to discuss this in the next few minutes.

[cyberduck]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

All part of the same policy as started by the OP. 
If farmers ( or anyone else for that matter) are prevented from keeping firearms at home then they may as well be banned as what is the point or logic in keeping them anywhere else? 
Totally impractical and irrational. Ridiculous comment by some empty headed loon. 

Indeed.....I'm not sure it's even logistically possible. By last count I think there's around 8m private firearms.  Some will be RFD stock, but there will still be more than 5m stored at home.  I don't think there's anywhere to store 5m firearms.

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, cyberduck said:

Indeed.....I'm not sure it's even logistically possible. By last count I think there's around 8m private firearms.  Some will be RFD stock, but there will still be more than 5m stored at home.  I don't think there's anywhere to store 5m firearms.

I just don’t understand the thinking behind such ludicrous comments! To what end do they think such a policy would satisfy? 🤷‍♂️

[Conor O'Gorman]

1 hour ago, Gas seal said:

Hi Conor thanks for the information. I’ve never known so much going on regarding all types of shooting. When the license changed from the post office to the police licence it was the lady in the post office that told me about it. I got the forms from the police station for myself and my brother, l took them to my doctor ( didn’t need an appointment) got them signed, back to the police station payed two pounds and the receipts were the licences until we got the new license in the post.

 

I don’t think we have ever had a right to own a firearm, or as they are referred to as weapons. More to it now to renew or apply for a licence. Dad always told me after the war that the government didn’t want civilians to own firearms, no change then, we didn’t know what a the internet or a civil rights lawyer was then.

 

Thanks. Yes, things have got very complicated around firearms licensing and it's never been busier with all the battles regarding all types of shooting. That said lots of positives also away from the policy front and easy to forget that.

https://basc.org.uk/2024-a-year-in-basc/

 

 

 

[Smudger687]

3 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Thanks, not sure how I am supposed to know 'full well' that you are a member - not least when you use the language 'you' for BASC rather than 'we'. Furthermore, you are getting same day replies from me on a forum. I'd say that's good service and certainly not 'company man non-responses'. 

You never actually address the points I raise though. You do it all the time. 

Company man responses.

[Conor O'Gorman]

38 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

You never actually address the points I raise though. You do it all the time. 

Company man responses.

I didn't see any questions other than some comments about removing the "good reason" requirement and 'loosening gun laws'. If you would like BASC to consider your comments for the upcoming consultation I can pass that onto colleagues. If you prefer you could also email your comments to firearms@basc.org.uk 

[Dougy]

We all know the ultimate target is to ban all privately owned firearms in an attempt to reduce firearm crime, and 99.9% of us know that this will not have any affect of the intended reason. What i would be interested to know is, is the same time, money, effort and resources being put to control the import of illegal firearms and those already in the country and indeed the gang and drug related crime involving firearms ?

Thats where the problem lies NOT with the law abiding British citizens that currently own firearms in the UK. 

Also have the Firearms department ever been accountable to the return of shotguns to Jake Davidson, or the chief of Police granting Thomas Hamilton his licence after umpteen reports of his Paedophilic activities had been ignored ? 

This is not a bashing post to any shooting org, but for me this needs shouting from the roof tops of UK, support shooting in the UK by defending shooting in the UK every aspect of shooting pellet guns to Trophy shooting, Grouse mores to Muck heap rat shooting. 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Dougy, stop being so damned sensible, please.   

[Dougy]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Dougy, stop being so damned sensible, please.   

Not posting what i put, dogs need a walk. but it just annoys me they dont target the issue

Edited Friday at 18:49 by Dougy

[Smudger687]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I didn't see any questions other than some comments about removing the "good reason" requirement and 'loosening gun laws'. If you would like BASC to consider your comments for the upcoming consultation I can pass that onto colleagues. If you prefer you could also email your comments to firearms@basc.org.uk 

You say it with such disdain...may I remind you that are you (theoretically) a PRO-shooting group, and that removing barriers to shooters SHOULD be something you are in favour of. 

Why does BASC never bother trying to make it easier to get guns? Does BASC not consult with MPs? Why do none of them ever call for looser gun laws? 

Or, does BASC actually never bother making the case for looser gun laws to our MPs? This would explain an awful lot tbqh.

Please can I just have a straight answer for once?

 

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, Dougy said:

Not posting what i put, dogs need a walk. but it just annoys me they dont target the issue

Unfortunately we as the law abiding people are the easy target and seen as an easy win if the legislate more onto us. Too much like hard work to crack down on the illegal firearms in the country, or reprimand the police force in Devon and Cornwall for giving someone with problems their guns back ..

We are at the lint where we ALL need to band together, not sling mud at any org, all offs and all license holders need to push back on these legislations

[Weihrauch17]

20 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Unfortunately we as the law abiding people are the easy target and seen as an easy win if the legislate more onto us. Too much like hard work to crack down on the illegal firearms in the country, or reprimand the police force in Devon and Cornwall for giving someone with problems their guns back ..

We are at the lint where we ALL need to band together, not sling mud at any org, all offs and all license holders need to push back on these legislations

I watched a 3 part documentary on the killing of the young girl Olivia and older girl in Liverpool.  A phone was recovered and hacked by the Police.  A wanted ad for Firearms was placed on the dark web and the list of offers proved that any criminal wanting a gun can get one in hours but no lets not address that and persecute law abiding citizens instead.  BASC should be shouting from the roof tops that virtually every mass shooting in this country has been caused by the Police not enforcing existing legislation and not because the legislation was ineffective.  Legitimate Licence holders are not the problem, the Police are.

[Smudger687]

2 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

I watched a 3 part documentary on the killing of the young girl Olivia and older girl in Liverpool.  A phone was recovered and hacked by the Police.  A wanted ad for Firearms was placed on the dark web and the list of offers proved that any criminal wanting a gun can get one in hours but no lets not address that and persecute law abiding citizens instead.  BASC should be shouting from the roof tops that virtually every mass shooting in this country has been caused by the Police not enforcing existing legislation and not because the legislation was ineffective.  Legitimate Licence holders are not the problem, the Police are.

Last I checked the average UK gun owner has substantially less than a 1 in a million probability of killing someone with their legally held firearm in any given year. By any objective metric this system is not in need of reform. 

@Conor O'Gorman has BASC ever made a case to MPs with some form of statistical analysis?

[Conor O'Gorman]

1 hour ago, Smudger687 said:

You say it with such disdain...may I remind you that are you (theoretically) a PRO-shooting group, and that removing barriers to shooters SHOULD be something you are in favour of. 

Why does BASC never bother trying to make it easier to get guns? Does BASC not consult with MPs? Why do none of them ever call for looser gun laws? 

Or, does BASC actually never bother making the case for looser gun laws to our MPs? This would explain an awful lot tbqh.

Please can I just have a straight answer for once?

 

I am not sure what you mean. A straight answer to what? Do you get the weekly BASC Live newsletter? On the basis of what you are posting you do not seem to be up to speed on BASC's work.

https://basc.org.uk/news/

 

 

57 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

Last I checked the average UK gun owner has substantially less than a 1 in a million probability of killing someone with their legally held firearm in any given year. By any objective metric this system is not in need of reform. 

@Conor O'Gorman has BASC ever made a case to MPs with some form of statistical analysis?

BASC's response to the 2023 firearms licensing consultation is here:

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/BASC-response-to-Home-Office-firearms-consultation-final.pdf

 

[jall25]

21 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

You are correct, I sacked it off probably 20 years ago.   They are woke and clueless and have no interest in shooting sports just their salaries and company cars.

 

Our local BASC rep in fairness is mint

Really helpful - comes to our shoot - even came beating - a proper chap 

[jall25]

4 hours ago, Dougy said:

We all know the ultimate target is to ban all privately owned firearms in an attempt to reduce firearm crime, and 99.9% of us know that this will not have any affect of the intended reason. What i would be interested to know is, is the same time, money, effort and resources being put to control the import of illegal firearms and those already in the country and indeed the gang and drug related crime involving firearms ?

Thats where the problem lies NOT with the law abiding British citizens that currently own firearms in the UK. 

Also have the Firearms department ever been accountable to the return of shotguns to Jake Davidson, or the chief of Police granting Thomas Hamilton his licence after umpteen reports of his Paedophilic activities had been ignored ? 

This is not a bashing post to any shooting org, but for me this needs shouting from the roof tops of UK, support shooting in the UK by defending shooting in the UK every aspect of shooting pellet guns to Trophy shooting, Grouse mores to Muck heap rat shooting. 

 

 

We need the hunters - the ferreters - the hawkers = the fishermen - all who have a life outdoors to stand together - but .....thats the hard part 

[Rock_n_Roll_Outlaw]

2 hours ago, Smudger687 said:

You say it with such disdain...may I remind you that are you (theoretically) a PRO-shooting group, and that removing barriers to shooters SHOULD be something you are in favour of. 

Why does BASC never bother trying to make it easier to get guns? Does BASC not consult with MPs? Why do none of them ever call for looser gun laws? 

Or, does BASC actually never bother making the case for looser gun laws to our MPs? This would explain an awful lot tbqh.

Please can I just have a straight answer for once?

 

Campaigning for looser gun laws is a losing battle, it's never going to happen. As much as all of here don't want to hear it. Coming together and fighting against further restrictions is what is needed from the shooting community right now in response to this consultation. We find ourselves in this situation because of police failings in enforcing the rules already in place which work fine, but it is what it is and a unified response is required, not campaigning for going in the other direction and making it easier for people to obtain firearms. 

[Weihrauch17]

45 minutes ago, jall25 said:

 

Our local BASC rep in fairness is mint

Really helpful - comes to our shoot - even came beating - a proper chap 

Their main job is to protect the future of Shooting and Field Sports and on that front they to me at least seem to be very ineffectual aptly demonstrated by everything that is going on now.  Anyhow you pay your money and take your choice, John Swift ended my membership many moons ago with his stance on Lead that they have continued to the point which we are at now.  To be fair to them none of the organisations are effective and none are vocal about the Police failings that have led us here, they all seem as bad as each other.  They all signed up to a Lead ban with absolutely no evidence of harm which to me was criminal, it was like a Classic Car organisation agreeing to a ban on Petrol.  Their failures will end with their own demise when owning a gun will become so problematic and expensive that the vast majority will throw the towel in.   

Edited Friday at 22:34 by Weihrauch17

[Keith 66]

An aspect of all this firearms control that is not considered is national security. Putin invaded Ukraine & now Trump threatens to pull out of Nato.

At a time when many European countries are of necessity having to increase defence spending our government is still cutting it.

Private firearms ownership should be a cornerstone of defence policy as it is in the nordic countries & Switzerland.

AG Banks once exhorted the British government in the late 1930's to build a rifle range on every golf course in the land. Instead hundreds have been closed.

It is high time that responsible firearms ownership should be seen as a neccessity for national security not something that should be banned by spineless politicians.

[Fil]

On 13/02/2025 at 23:39, Smudger687 said:

 

We have the best politicians that money can buy;  
 

😆😆😆 LMAO The current administration are nothing better than 6th form activists. That's me being kind. In fact I have never in my 56 years seen a group of nasty, vindictive, hateful & out of their depth MP's. I really do worry for our firearms over the next four years. With their majority they can do what they want. 

[Rewulf]

11 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Their failures will end with their own demise when owning a gun will become so problematic and expensive that the vast majority will throw the towel in. 

Its a strategy, not a failure.
Gun ownership and use will end up with those that have very deep pockets, more profit, less hassle for the likes of big shoots, and indeed BASC.

 

1 hour ago, Keith 66 said:

It is high time that responsible firearms ownership should be seen as a neccessity for national security not something that should be banned by spineless politicians.

Absolutely, Poland are going down this route.
Shooting should be encouraged and supported, instead they are trying to kill it off.

2 minutes ago, Fil said:

The current administration are nothing better than 6th form activists.

THAT is a very insightful, and true observation 

[Gas seal]

The only thing that this government understand are human rights lawyers. Shooters need a human rights lawyer who understands or can be advised on the firearms laws and different shooting sports.
Shooting is a way of life for a lot of people, it’s also a traditional, no matter the type of shooting. 
  It’s not just the gun we use it’s what we fire through it and what we shoot with it. Applying for or renewing a licence will deter some from shooting. The use of non lead will deter some and the restrictions on the live quarry we shoot has already stopped some from shooting. 
  It’s a case of move with the times and keep shooting for existing shooters, anyone who wants to come into shooting will have to find somewhere to shoot or join a target shooting club or a wildfowl club before applying for a licence. The harder it’s made the more determined we should be.

[Smudger687]

2 hours ago, Fil said:

😆😆😆 LMAO The current administration are nothing better than 6th form activists. That's me being kind. In fact I have never in my 56 years seen a group of nasty, vindictive, hateful & out of their depth MP's. I really do worry for our firearms over the next four years. With their majority they can do what they want. 

Emphasis on the word "buy". They're all bent, but everyone else seems to be able to get them singing to their hymn book, why can't BASC do likewise?

[Genghis]

On 14/02/2025 at 00:35, Weihrauch17 said:

You are correct, I sacked it off probably 20 years ago.   They are woke and clueless and have no interest in shooting sports just their salaries and company cars.

Who in BASC is ‘woke’? Name them.