Ukraine, Russia, UK and Europe?

[NoBodyImportant]

On 26/02/2025 at 12:10, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, Now if Trump gets his way with the deal getting the  Minerals from Ukraine , How will Putin react to that ??

He is begging the USA to take a share of Russian minerals also.  The art of the deal.  

[oldypigeonpopper]

10 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

He is begging the USA to take a share of Russian minerals also.  The art of the deal.  

Hello, All the while he is still Bombing Ukraine and killing many citizens, Why are most Countries so scared of Putin ??  Bomb the Kremlin i say 👍

[Newbie to this]

25 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, All the while he is still Bombing Ukraine and killing many citizens, Why are most Countries so scared of Putin ??  Bomb the Kremlin i say 👍

Oh dear

[oldypigeonpopper]

7 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Oh dear

Hello, Well something has to be done, What do you suggest ?? 

[Newbie to this]

Maybe not starting a nuclear war.

As Trump has said, up until him, no one has even talked about peace.

Peace starts with conversation.

Unfortunately that requires talking to the aggressor as well as the invaded. It also means compromise. 

Understandably Ukraine may not be happy with that, but I don't think they have a choice. They cannot win this war, especially if the US stops funding it.

[Dave-G]

7 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, All the while he is still Bombing Ukraine and killing many citizens, Why are most Countries so scared of Putin ??  Bomb the Kremlin i say 👍

The Kremlin has the same self protection first strike nuclear policy as us: If UK is attacked we will respond with the ultimate deterrent. Something some past Labour leaders and traitors failed to comprehend.

 

we have at least one nuclear armed sub permanently at sea for that very reason.

Edited Friday at 16:09 by Dave-G

[Rewulf]

19 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

we have at least one nuclear armed sub permanently at sea for that very reason

I thought we couldnt launch without American permission/codes ?

Not saying they wouldnt give it, but I was always under the impression we didnt have total control over our nuclear deterrent ?

[Dave-G]

Just now, Rewulf said:

I thought we couldnt launch without American permission/codes ?

Not saying they wouldnt give it, but I was always under the impression we didnt have total control over our nuclear deterrent ?

I don't know TBH but wouldn't be surprised, I expect we'd at least alert them for our own safety.

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I thought we couldnt launch without American permission/codes ?

Not so - they are USA built and (I think owned, but 'leased'?) but we have independent control over use.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/no-america-doesnt-control-britains-nuclear-weapons/

[ditchman]

looks as if the Ukraine minerals deal has gone TOTALLY tits up....

whats next ..eh............i wonder if this was by design...by Trump to put pressure on Zelensky to either resign or go to election...so the people will put pressure on the govt to accept a Trump / Putin deal...to end the war.......

i rekon this is wheels within wheels...

Zelensky left Whitehouse with lot of bad blood....

[semi-auto]

According to the news on TV, Zelensky was expelled from the White House. From the pictures, he couldn't leave fast enough!

[old man]

17 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I thought we couldnt launch without American permission/codes ?

Not saying they wouldnt give it, but I was always under the impression we didnt have total control over our nuclear deterrent ?

Wouldn't be surprised, we don't seem to have control of anything these days? A nice easy fob of if something goes wrong in being able to blame someone else?

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, Why call this a War ?? It was an Invasion by the Russians on Putins Orders, Did Putin go on State TV to declare War on Ukraine ? No , They just amassed a huge Army on the Russian / Ukraine border and proceeded to murder Ukraine Citizens and destroy Cities and Towns taking over a whole Area of Eastern Ukraine and still going on with 1000s of Dead on both sides, Russia are still Bombing Ukraine while Trump accuses Zelenski of starting WW3 

[Stonepark]

The war started in 2014 when the Ukranian government was overtaken by a coup and certain areas of the country legitimately resisted this and were attacked by the new Nazi Ukranian Government (the next likely president and current ambassador to London Zaluzhnyi being a good example) and held on for the next 8 years with 14,000 civilians killed, even through all the time the West arming the Ukranian army with modern weapons and western training with plans to invade the resisting regions and annihilate them.

Putin gave them warning, after warning, they negotiated and signed treaties which the Ukranians then broke, the Duma held votes and authorised Putin to take action.

It is quite clear that the West instigated the war, people might be upset that Russia expanded it, but that is the risk you take when you play regime change for real, rather than on a Risk board.

The major issue that all those elites (who are generally rich) in support of regime change ignored was the downsides, some 1.5% of our GDP (equivalent of £40B per annum) is being drained each year from the UK in aid to Ukraine, higher energy prices, inflation etc and as such every working person (and returmed etc) is being punished financially because of this.

The fact that some people can't get there head around this, does not make everyone who can appeasers, just sensible practical folk, who see that their governments overstepped (which is going to be corrected through elections in future) and created a mess, when there need not have been one.

[NoBodyImportant]

4 hours ago, Stonepark said:

The war started in 2014 when the Ukranian government was overtaken by a coup and certain areas of the country legitimately resisted this and were attacked by the new Nazi Ukranian Government (the next likely president and current ambassador to London Zaluzhnyi being a good example) and held on for the next 8 years with 14,000 civilians killed, even through all the time the West arming the Ukranian army with modern weapons and western training with plans to invade the resisting regions and annihilate them.

Putin gave them warning, after warning, they negotiated and signed treaties which the Ukranians then broke, the Duma held votes and authorised Putin to take action.

It is quite clear that the West instigated the war, people might be upset that Russia expanded it, but that is the risk you take when you play regime change for real, rather than on a Risk board.

The major issue that all those elites (who are generally rich) in support of regime change ignored was the downsides, some 1.5% of our GDP (equivalent of £40B per annum) is being drained each year from the UK in aid to Ukraine, higher energy prices, inflation etc and as such every working person (and returmed etc) is being punished financially because of this.

The fact that some people can't get there head around this, does not make everyone who can appeasers, just sensible practical folk, who see that their governments overstepped (which is going to be corrected through elections in future) and created a mess, when there need not have been one.

Nailed it, but would like to point out that they held the vote in a legal manner according to their own constitution.  They have the legal right to vote to leave the Ukraine with a 3/4 vote and they got something like 90% every thing the separatists did was legal under Ukrainian law.  

[Newbie to this]

2 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Nailed it, but would like to point out that they held the vote in a legal manner according to their own constitution.  They have the legal right to vote to leave the Ukraine with a 3/4 vote and they got something like 90% every thing the separatists did was legal under Ukrainian law.  

Similar happened in Spain, without the bombings etc. Spain just used the police, and everyone just turned a blind eye. Not sure if the referendum was legal though.

People were just rying to have a vote and were getting battered and arrested by the Spanish police. I believe they locked up the politicians that organised the referendum.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Catalan_independence_referendum#:~:text=Due to alleged irregularities during,minimum international standards for elections.

 

[semi-auto]

My apologies - should have read £115b.

[holloway]

On 01/03/2025 at 11:56, Stonepark said:

The war started in 2014 when the Ukranian government was overtaken by a coup and certain areas of the country legitimately resisted this and were attacked by the new Nazi Ukranian Government (the next likely president and current ambassador to London Zaluzhnyi being a good example) and held on for the next 8 years with 14,000 civilians killed, even through all the time the West arming the Ukranian army with modern weapons and western training with plans to invade the resisting regions and annihilate them.

Putin gave them warning, after warning, they negotiated and signed treaties which the Ukranians then broke, the Duma held votes and authorised Putin to take action.

It is quite clear that the West instigated the war, people might be upset that Russia expanded it, but that is the risk you take when you play regime change for real, rather than on a Risk board.

The major issue that all those elites (who are generally rich) in support of regime change ignored was the downsides, some 1.5% of our GDP (equivalent of £40B per annum) is being drained each year from the UK in aid to Ukraine, higher energy prices, inflation etc and as such every working person (and returmed etc) is being punished financially because of this.

The fact that some people can't get there head around this, does not make everyone who can appeasers, just sensible practical folk, who see that their governments overstepped (which is going to be corrected through elections in future) and created a mess, when there need not have been one.

who funded the new coup leaders in 2014 the new nazi Ukraine government as you describe them ? 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, holloway said:

who funded the new coup leaders in 2014 the new nazi Ukraine government as you describe them ? 

If you have any doubts about the huge part the extreme right (nazis) played in the 2014 coup, just have a browse through the multitude of reports the BBC put on Youtube during and after 2014.

Who funded them ? Well Im sure there wont be a paper trail leading back to them, but its established fact that during Maidan, USAID was pumping $1 million A DAY into the protesters, and I would hazard a guess that at least a portion of that went into the 'nazi' element, who did the brunt of the more violent actions.

Once the coup was over, and the Donbas tried to separate, that same element formed heavily armed militias, often using nazi symbolism, to 'quell' what they termed, the insurrection.
There is no doubt extreme far right elements went on to form part of the government, at least for a while.

Its telling that the Donbas civil war went on for 8 years before the Russian invasion, mainly because Kyiv couldnt control the militias, as their ideology was so extreme, and quite possibly because elements with the Kyiv government didnt want hem to stop, despite knowing this antagonised Russia.

Throw into the mix that the west were starting to arm Ukraine, carried out joint NATO/Ukraine military exercises on Ukraine soil, and  seemed very receptive to their NATO application, and banning of Russian language and books.
War was inevitable, and the west did nothing to stop it, they actively encouraged it.

[Gordon R]

Despite Joe Biden and the west antagonising Russia, I am less than convinced about Putin's altruistic motives. Just an opportunist thug. 

It makes me smile that anyone thinks Zelensky is a great leader.

When peace does come and it will - don't be surprised if Zelensky leaves Ukraine for foreign parts, with a chunk of money or gets arrested for embezzlement.

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, holloway said:

who funded the new coup leaders in 2014 the new nazi Ukraine government as you describe them ? 

USAid is down for 5 Billion alone.... Musk has recently shone a light on it..... 

You can organise a lot of riots, pay journalists, pay demonstrators, arrange snipers, control the narrative and stage a coup with that sort of money, which is what they did.

CIA is reckoned for another 5 billion mainly in arms and training to the Neo Nazi militas

Soros and EU another couple of billion.

The list goes on.

Though nothing compares to the 500 billion since then, of what according to Zekensky, less than 20% has reached Ukraine.....

 

[Rewulf]

36 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

It makes me smile that anyone thinks Zelensky is a great leader.

IF he was a great leader, he would step down, so someone a little more moderate could restart negotiations.

Zelensky has modelled himself as BEING Ukraine, his voice alone dictates the direction of policy, this is egotistical, and the mark of a dictator.
Trump has stated he clearly doesnt want peace, he wants victory. How can anyone argue with that assessment ?

13 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Though nothing compares to the 500 billion since then, of what according to Zekensky, less than 20% has reached Ukraine.....

Thats what happens when you pour that kind of money into one of the most corrupt countries on the planet.

The ridiculous thing is, there are those in the EU who think we should pour more in, including our very own Starlin, a very easy promise to make when its not your money.
Meanwhile, every day, every hour, while these idiots try to drag it on, hoping to increase their own wealth, people are being shot and blown apart.
Put Zelensky on the front line for an hour, Im sure his mindset will alter somewhat.