Laird Lugton Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Hoorah Rioting arsonist could be shot. The use of firearms could be justified given the ''immediacy of the risk and the gravity of the consequences'', legal advice published in the review said.Plastic bullets and water cannon could also be used by officers facing riots similar to those seen this summer, the review by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC) added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I completely agree. As for the petrol bombs being thrown! A good shot with some size 6s a la 12g would make a rather nice firework display Perhaps even better if the scum still had it in his hand when it goes POP. A clear signal needs to be sent and SOON that it's the Cockrell running the Hen house not the Hen's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Thank god somebody has finally seen sence! This should have been the rule anyway! I thought you already had the right to stop/kill somebody if you fully beleive either yours or somebody else's life is in immediate danger? Maybe they could bring out a course SSC level 1 (scum stalking certificate) I'm more than happy to go on it even of I had to pay! Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemicky Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Cant imagine being hit by a petrol bomb and the potential horrific injuries , doesn't bare thinking about , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I completely agree. As for the petrol bombs being thrown! A good shot with some size 6s a la 12g would make a rather nice firework display Im sure its south Africa that uses old Lee Enfield rifles which have been converted to fire 410 cartridges at rioters.Gets my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yates Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I agree totally. They should be able to shoot anyone wearing traccy bottoms and a hoodie. Even better shoot anyone who speaks 'gangsta' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I agree totally. They should be able to shoot anyone wearing traccy bottoms and a hoodie. Even better shoot anyone who speaks 'gangsta' I is wiv ya blood / homie / ****** / Dwayne / Leroy init safe like brrap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yates Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I is wiv ya blood / homie / ****** / Dwayne / Leroy init safe like brrap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) SO what happens when they do something to upset you and you want to protest and even riot depending on the seriousness of the incident ? ... oh yes, they can legally shoot you ... well thats just great :unsure: No body minds them doing it aslong as it doesn't effect them , then when it does its too late! Edited December 20, 2011 by Bigthug87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 The HMIC review also called for a "central information 'all source' hub", drawing together all information, including that from direct contact with the public and social networking sites, to be developed. There a few Billion in useless IT all they need is 20 teenagers with mobile phones/blackberries, fast broadband and an unlimited supply junk food! I am sure that the Police always had the choice to use more force but they were worried/scared of not being backed up. also if police need to outnumber rioters 3/5-1 as report suggests they need a lot more police! I wonder how the 680,000 SGC holders would feel about having to do public order training and being on call to assist the police in public order situations? Home Guard style govt issued ammo...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 SO what happens when they do something to upset you and you want to protest and even riot depending on the seriousness of the incident ? ... oh yes, they can legally shoot you ... well thats just great :unsure: No body minds them doing it aslong as it doesn't effect them , then when it does its too late! Protesting and rioting are two very different things. I personally will never be rioting so don't have any fear of being shot at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) SO what happens when they do something to upset you and you want to protest and even riot depending on the seriousness of the incident ? ... oh yes, they can legally shoot you ... well thats just great :unsure: No body minds them doing it aslong as it doesn't effect them , then when it does its too late! You have mis-read, mis-interpreted or simply not read the review recommendations... What they have said is that arsonists targetting commercial property which is linked to a domestic property should be legitimate targets and the police should be allowed to use lethal force against such people... The point being, if you decide to throw a petrol bomb into a furniture store that my house is attached to, then you are immediately and severely threatening mine and my family's lives and the police should have the same lethal powers they do should you stick a shotgun in my face and threaten to pull the trigger. At the end of the day though, when you look at how the whole Moat debarcle unfolded, I find it hard to believe any commanding officer would authorise his men on the ground to use lethal force in any situation unless fired upon EVEN IF the legislation existed to allow it... The Moat situation could have and should have been ended much more swiftly and decicively and gives an incling into the way plod's mind works... avoid using lethal force at all costs, no matter whether it's goodie, baddie orwhatever... not a bad way to be really but sometimes... just sometimes !!!! Edited December 20, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 good idea in principle, but after seing plod with weapons and the debacles such as menezes, waldorf and saunders etc, I would not trust them with a catapult,still maybe they will practice with these! KW http://www.letargets.com/estylez_ps.aspx?searchmode=category&searchcatcontext=~010000~010100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waitesy Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 good idea in principle, but after seing plod with weapons and the debacles such as menezes, waldorf and saunders etc, I would not trust them with a catapult,still maybe they will practice with these! KW http://www.letargets.com/estylez_ps.aspx?searchmode=category&searchcatcontext=~010000~010100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricko Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Why they never used baton rounds/water cannon is beyond belief. Growing up in the 70's every night riots were being put down on the news; NI, S Africa, Paris student riots etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waitesy Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Yardy Yarda,bitterness and bias but no substance. When the brown ansd smelly stuff hit the fan.Someone has to step up to the plate and deal with it. If the response is proportionate and necessary then 'put em down'. Its easy to make snide comments from the comfort of your own home or in the bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 You have mis-read, mis-interpreted or simply not read the review recommendations... What they have said is that arsonists targetting commercial property which is linked to a domestic property should be legitimate targets and the police should be allowed to use lethal force against such people... The point being, if you decide to throw a petrol bomb into a furniture store that my house is attached to, then you are immediately and severely threatening mine and my family's lives and the police should have the same lethal powers they do should you stick a shotgun in my face and threaten to pull the trigger. At the end of the day though, when you look at how the whole Moat debarcle unfolded, I find it hard to believe any commanding officer would authorise his men on the ground to use lethal force in any situation unless fired upon EVEN IF the legislation existed to allow it... The Moat situation could have and should have been ended much more swiftly and decicively and gives an incling into the way plod's mind works... avoid using lethal force at all costs, no matter whether it's goodie, baddie orwhatever... not a bad way to be really but sometimes... just sometimes !!!! Like said, good idea in principal... what happens when some wana be super cop hero starts shooting into a group of protesters though then claims he thought they were about to attack him I got no pity for the people out petrol bombing people's houses but ALOT of Coppers I've come across are jumped up lil power mongers, some are ok to be fair but what happens when one of the bad ones gets behind a gun in a riot ? be like a re enactment of scar face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderdude Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 So another legitimate post commenting on a government report turns into a "let's slag off the cops" I know many firearms officer including ones that have shot people, what's more an officer involved in the final seconds of Moats worthless life. I would trust my life in anyone of these people's hands and I would trust them to make very difficult decisions at the right time. Mistakes get made, but very rarely when you know how many times weapons are discharged or drawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygreengrass Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I completely agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatstand Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Okay in principal but I fear if they did shoot rioters and kill some then you would just see the rioters step up a gear and as was proved earlier in the year a mass outbreak of looting and rioting can not be controlled by any uk police force. After watching the rioters chase the police down this year I would be worried that their firearms would end up in the law breakers hands. Maybe the police should plan to get out on the streets a bit earlier next time as there was times when there wasn't any police presence for hours whilst looting and burning of premises was happening,or are they pretending that never happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) So another legitimate post commenting on a government report turns into a "let's slag off the cops" I know many firearms officer including ones that have shot people, what's more an officer involved in the final seconds of Moats worthless life. I would trust my life in anyone of these people's hands and I would trust them to make very difficult decisions at the right time. Mistakes get made, but very rarely when you know how many times weapons are discharged or drawn. not cop bashing just a reality check, like I said good idea in principle, same as hanging, but far far to many opportunities for a rogue cop to play his game or a mistake to be made, sadly past events show us that rogues and mistakes come along all to often, still it is the right time of year for Narnia hope you enjoy it. KW Edited December 20, 2011 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 as was proved earlier in the year a mass outbreak of looting and rioting can not be controlled by any uk police force. Were the police on the ground given free reign to control them, or were their commanders too scared they'd be accused of heavy handed tactics? If you read Inspector Gadget's blog at the time there was a lot of anger from the police on the ground who felt the top brass didn't have the balls to stand up to the rioters. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I agree with Vipa. I would also add that plod are sensible enough not to deploy armed cops on foot unless they were fully prepared to use them if necessary. Also, it would take a special kind of rioter to try chasing a copper with a loaded firearm. My only niggling concern is that my experience of SO19 cops at Lippets Hill (used to be a Met Police firearms training ground and helicopter base) in the late 90's was that a few of them were a bit too Clint Eastwood for my liking but it has to be remembered this was behind closed doors and not in view of Joe public. I suspect they don't act like that any more. I was also an "acquaintance" of that SO19 cop by the name of Hodgson who got in a spot of bother - a thoroughly decent chap in my dealings with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Look, no Gold commander will ever authorise the carriage of firearms in a riot unless there is intel to suggest rioters possess or have access to them. For use against petrol bombers get real, they didn't have the balls to deploy something that sprays water let alone bullets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Were the police on the ground given free reign to control them, or were their commanders too scared they'd be accused of heavy handed tactics? If you read Inspector Gadget's blog at the time there was a lot of anger from the police on the ground who felt the top brass didn't have the balls to stand up to the rioters. Nial. commanders to scared? in all probability yes! keeping in mind the actions of the likes of Pc Simon Harwood at the 2009 G20 protests, all it takes is one bad apple and all that, perhaps those on inspector gadget should look a bit closer to home as to the reason it took days to take appropriate action at tottenham,as due to rogue cops like Harwood like it or not the police will be damned if they do damned if they dont. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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