Do you know someone who has a gun licence who shouldn't?

[Catweazle]

Everyone has gone off topic.

 

The original question was "do you know someone with a ticket who you think shouldn't?" (or words to that effect).

 

 

No.

[pat g]

Let us hope that is the case. We have a culture in this country of piling legislation on top of legislation without properly enforcing existing law. Whether that's down to fear of litigation or the ECHR I don't know, but whatever it is it needs to be addressed.

In the most notorious incidents of murder committed with legally held firearms since and including Hungerford there had been the gravest doubts about the fitness of the person responsible to hold firearms expressed both informally within that person's community and formally to the police, repeatedly so in the case of Thomas Hamilton.

Police already have powers of confiscation if doubts about a person's suitabilty come to light, without necessarily revoking the ticket.

It is too early to judge in the Durham case, and its always easy to be wise after the event, but in the past police would seem not always to have exercised the powers available to them. The reasons for that need to be established. Throwing bad law on top of bad law doesn't solve anything.

Well said,in a nutshell

ATB,

Pat

[HDAV]

I too went off track

 

So how come my SGC, albeit called a Gun Licence, is dated:- 09:26hrs 25 Aug 1958?

Wasnt that pay 2 bob at the post office along with your dog licence? and wasnt as we know it now until 1968 ( I wasnt born so can only go on what I read prehistoric times :yp: )

 

As for "no control" thats the point no one thinks they flip no matter how stressed or depressed they become until they do, mental illness can strike for many different reasons and for some it is like catching the flu they get over it, for others it becomes terminal.

 

Just to say no i dont know of anyone i think is unfit at present a couple i would be wary of (some on here spring to mind TBH). I would like to think that i could report it and the appropriate action would be taken and if my amatuer concerns were unfounded then there would be no repercussions. It's a fine line between "concern" and "interference"

Edited January 3, 2012 by HDAV

[Kes]

My answer would have to be yes, probably one.

 

There are a number of people I refused taxi licences to as well, and one I revoked.

All of these (taxi licences) have been tested in the court - it is often easier to 'let it happen'.

Some of us give a damn though.

 

WRT the 'one' above, how do you prove it ? How could you tell if I had an axe to grind?

He's been an SGC/FAC holder for a long time without incident - am I therefore being objective?

I would never act as ref for SGC/FAC for anyone I doubted, and the 'one' would be a no-no. Is there more I could or should do?

I dont think so.

What do those who knew RM feel about 'naming and end gaming'?

[masterzone2]

One Personally

Them attempted to kill themselves are being abused just got their FAC after having an SGC for a year.

Firearms where brought within hours of the ticket hitting the door mat They do have many many acres

Over 50 in family ownership all joined the other god knows how much they have FULL written permission for.

 

Interesting I have been told the abuser is due for release.

 

The other knows who they are don't you?

[mossy835]

no i dont know any body.

[Davyo]

On Jeremy Vine on BBC 2 in the next two hours.

 

Do you know someone who has a gun licence who shouldn't? Well this should be interesting. So anyone who has a grudge against someone is going to be queuing up to phone in..........

 

Trashy journalism akin to Jeremy Kyle.....

 

Used to be member of local shoot. 1 member had his licence rewmoved by the police. The shoot captain wouldnt tell me why so i left taking my son with me as this guy was still shooting by lending another members spare gun??

[poontang]

One Personally

Them attempted to kill themselves are being abused just got their FAC after having an SGC for a year.

Firearms where brought within hours of the ticket hitting the door mat They do have many many acres

Over 50 in family ownership all joined the other god knows how much they have FULL written permission for.

 

Interesting I have been told the abuser is due for release.

 

The other knows who they are don't you?

 

I can't make head nor tail of that :blink:

 

 

In answer to the original question, no I don't think I do.

 

Edit to say Yes, yes I think I do now :yp:

Edited January 3, 2012 by poontang

[wymberley]

I too went off track

 

 

Wasnt that pay 2 bob at the post office along with your dog licence? and wasnt as we know it now until 1968 ( I wasnt born so can only go on what I read prehistoric times :yp: )

 

As for "no control" thats the point no one thinks they flip no matter how stressed or depressed they become until they do, mental illness can strike for many different reasons and for some it is like catching the flu they get over it, for others it becomes terminal.

 

Just to say no i dont know of anyone i think is unfit at present a couple i would be wary of (some on here spring to mind TBH). I would like to think that i could report it and the appropriate action would be taken and if my amatuer concerns were unfounded then there would be no repercussions. It's a fine line between "concern" and "interference"

Yep, PO, 10/- by the time I got mine. Originally, shotguns not firearms were specified in the relevant post and even though you weren't born and have to rely on what you've read of prehistorical times, this did not prevent you producing the firearms act of that era which is correct as is the reference made to and reason for, the gun licence as explained. This enabled the "authorities" to keep an approximate eye on the guns (including airguns) held. I say approximate as it is known that gun owners in various outlying areas, notably, North Devon ( ), didn't play by the rules.

[masterzone2]

Sorry guys got a broken right hand ATM trying to do all this with my left one.

Basically Someone from my past has a FAC and SGC They were abused some time back.

I am told the person who abused them is due for release.

[Vince Green]

 

 

yes i would have a word with my fao if i had serious concerns about someone i knew personally .

 

 

 

I have, several times as secretary of a big club. It doesn't win you any popularity contests. One in particular was a good mate of many years standing. He never spoke to me till the day he died (of drink). Another made threats and false allegations about me to the police resulting in my house getting searched. They were just doing their job and I didn't make a complaint. What I did get annoyed about was there was no come back on him for the false allegations. He just said he believed they were true. And they let it go at that.

 

You have to do it. but don't think its easy.

 

If I had to do it again I would

Edited January 3, 2012 by Vince Green

[Blunderbuss]

I have, several times as secretary of a big club. It doesn't win you any popularity contests. One in particular was a good mate of many years standing. He never spoke to me till the day he died (of drink). Another made threats and false allegations about me to the police resulting in my house getting searched. They were just doing their job and I didn't make a complaint. What I did get annoyed about was there was no come back on him for the false allegations. He just said he believed they were true. And they let it go at that.

 

You have to do it. but don't think its easy.

 

If I had to do it again I would

 

It's called integrity, it seems you have it to spare. Good on you

Edited January 3, 2012 by Blunderbuss

[libs]

Loads of people who shoot, in all disciplines (maybe more so in target shooting) are full-on raving weirdos.

 

If you are sat there thinking "I've never met one!" Then you are probably a weirdo. Also if you can quote model numbers of moderators and swivel stud screws you will probably fall into that category...

 

Do I know anyone who shouldn't hold an FAC/SGC? I couldn't comment because people who are suspect weirdos are only ever acquaintances to me, so I don't know them well enough to comment.

 

Happy shooting.

[HDAV]

Yep, PO, 10/- by the time I got mine. Originally, shotguns not firearms were specified in the relevant post and even though you weren't born and have to rely on what you've read of prehistorical times, this did not prevent you producing the firearms act of that era which is correct as is the reference made to and reason for, the gun licence as explained. This enabled the "authorities" to keep an approximate eye on the guns (including airguns) held. I say approximate as it is known that gun owners in various outlying areas, notably, North Devon ( ), didn't play by the rules.

but that was "how many guns are where" not "you are suitable to have one" IIRC I know when the 1968 law came in many got stashed in attics and alike and have been appearing ever since.

 

I really think we need Munglers "nut nut" button tho..........

[Scully]

I'm sure you can imagine just how complex the system must be when you consider the niche areas like veterinary humane killing, deer stalking on national trust land etc. none of which I have any experience with, so I can't have a full picture of how to improve licensing.

 

I do think however that evidence of "good cause" should be shown for owning a shotgun. I know of more than one person who lives in an inner-city flat with shotguns and have never used them for any purpose, sporting or otherwise. I also think that a Canadian style licensing system would help, where an individual has to attend a course and prove safe proficiency with a firearm before they're allowed to walk into a shop and take one home. Currently, any simpleton who is uncapable of even operating their TV remote can get a SGC, a gun and some carts, head home and then try to work out how to use the thing. I'm amazed more new shotgun owners don't have ND's.

 

Just an observation about the criminal records criteria - Not having one just means you haven't been caught. Some of the most prolific criminals have never been caught. I don't have any bright ideas about this one though and their proposed phsyc profile from a GP is just as useless.

 

Hypothetically; a chief FEO who conducted an interview made someone out to be an idiot for enquiring about reloading shotgun carts. They were told unequivocally that you can't reload ammunition. Don't ask me how I know this. So maybe making sure firearms officers are actually informed might be a good place to start!

Fair enough,but I fail to see how any of the points you have raised would have prevented that which happened in Peterlee,which is the entire purpose of firearms legislation isn't it?The licensing system exists and is intended for the benefit of the safety of the general public,not for the benefit of the shooter.

Licensing/legislation for the sheer hell of it benefits no-one.

According to someone I know in Canada,the registration of centre-fire rifles has just recently been scrapped in that country following a massive campaign by law abiding firearms holders,including many police officers.

As for the op question,I know of one or two people who I am surprised have been granted SGC's,but as long as they meet the criteria by which I am judged,then who am I to decide who should and shouldn't have one?

Edited January 3, 2012 by Scully

[wymberley]

but that was "how many guns are where" not "you are suitable to have one" IIRC I know when the 1968 law came in many got stashed in attics and alike and have been appearing ever since.

 

I really think we need Munglers "nut nut" button tho..........

Exactly, "how many guns are where" is what that post was about but you disagreed and it now looks as though you were not right in doing so

You're right about that button though.

FIN

[PWD]

I would imagine we are more at risk of an accidental shooting...or being killed in or by a taxi than actually getting shot deliberately by a ticket holder ...so leave it as it is , it works well enough ,people flip occasionally its a fact of life we have to accept.

That said a safe handling course and a proven ability to hit a moving target may be a good add on for live game shooters.

[HDAV]

Exactly, "how many guns are where" is what that post was about but you disagreed and it now looks as though you were not right in doing so

You're right about that button though.

FIN

Sorry I've managed to loose myself somewhere in the conversation (while listening to the drivel on the Jeremy Vine show......

 

Edited January 3, 2012 by HDAV

[Bazooka Joe]

Not exactly. What he did (allegedly) is put those who were going to hand in their firearms for destruction in touch with someone who would pay good money for the gun. He made nothing, both parties benefited, but it is against policy.

 

 

Rubbish...where did you hear that from..?

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/159254-outcome-of-the-police-officers-selling-guns/page__view__findpost__p__1352774__fromsearch__1

 

Be a one for the book if he was involved in this, he would cover this patch, & I'm sure he was FEO then aswell...no doubt I'll be corrected..

 

 

Back on topic....a couple who used to be members of our club, when the handguns were legal, no interest in shooting, just the Rambo side of it.

 

Never shot before, just wanted to join to get a handgun..

[kdubya]

Rubbish...where did you hear that from..?

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/159254-outcome-of-the-police-officers-selling-guns/page__view__findpost__p__1352774__fromsearch__1

 

Be a one for the book if he was involved in this, he would cover this patch, & I'm sure he was FEO then aswell...no doubt I'll be corrected..

 

 

 

 

It had crossed my mind mate

 

KW

Edited January 3, 2012 by kdubya

[Blunderbust]

On Jeremy Vine on BBC 2 in the next two hours.

 

Do you know someone who has a gun licence who shouldn't? Well this should be interesting. So anyone who has a grudge against someone is going to be queuing up to phone in..........

 

Trashy journalism akin to Jeremy Kyle.....

 

Sadly, I do know of such a person. after reading the original post again I don't hold any grudge and who am I to judge anyone in the first place? He may think the same about me.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Blunderbust

[caeser]

Now I'm not sure on this, but, I reckon statistically,

if you looked at the amount of people killed by guns from people with firearms licences,as a percentage,

then compared it to the amount of people killed by cars from people with driving licences, as a percentage,

I would be very surprised if the cars drivers didn't come out on top.

There are thousands of irresponsible people out there driving around in, what amounts to , a lethal weapon.

 

I think this needs to be pointed out to the people who are anti guns.

 

I hope you understand my point.

[Mungler]

Now I'm not sure on this, but, I reckon statistically,

if you looked at the amount of people killed by guns from people with firearms licences,as a percentage,

then compared it to the amount of people killed by cars from people with driving licences, as a percentage,

I would be very surprised if the cars drivers didn't come out on top.

There are thousands of irresponsible people out there driving around in, what amounts to , a lethal weapon.

 

I think this needs to be pointed out to the people who are anti guns.

 

I hope you understand my point.

 

It's always worth bearing in mind the comparative statistics, but they are nothing more than that.

 

On a "comparative argument" the police should actually go and arrest all the main board directors of the tobacco companies if we are looking at annual body count....

[JR1960]

With regards the original thread, yes I did know someone like that. I reported him, he lost his licences and thus his job.

Do I feel guilty? Yes, even now several years later. Even after the chap died a few years ago.

Do I think I did the right thing and would I do it again? Yes. I would have felt far worse if I had done nothing and someone had got hurt.

 

With regards the rest, whatever legislation/testing is in place you won't stop tragic events like this. Even if you outlawed guns altogether they would merely chose another form of weapon, we all know that. But whilst we have governments that will follow a hysterical media whipping up every anti campaign they can think of (and don't think its just shooting, i did a lot of off-roading and occasionally a bit of green laning before they quietly closed most of them a few years ago) and a public hungry for the next cause to pillory and that is happy to ignore fact and believe, ill informed at best and lying at worst, activists, sadly common sense will have little to do with it.

[Floating Chamber]

Was it in the Durham area that there was a FEO who was selling guns that had been handed in?

 

Mmmmm... true?

Edited January 4, 2012 by Floating Chamber