Guest stevo Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) first off im sorry if this has been covered before ! BUT if there was a ban on lead , many of us all already aware of how this would impact our shooting , but what about the use of full bore ammo and rimfire , what would be the replacement ?? stevo Edited December 15, 2013 by stevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrshiretaxidermy Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 How would it impact your shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 the fact that I would have to use a lead free alternative for my shotguns ,i.e. non-toxic . which in turn will no doubt mean at a higher cost . I would also like to ask for this NOT to be a debate on the pro's and cons or ballistic difference's . as has been shown many people have there own views on what's better steel verses lead . that's not what im asking . just what alternatives will be on offer to the CF and rimfire community , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 My O/U would become redundant due to not being proofed for steel and too tightly choked for specialist steel cartridges.I know i could have the choking reamed out a little,but since it patterns well it would be a shame. Not sure about rimfire though.Is it even possible to make a 'lead' round from non toxic??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 There would be an up turn in re-loading for starters.....and how you would police the contents of the reloaded rounds I have no idea... TEH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAsh Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 They cannot check now on wildfowlers if they use home loads, with lead reloads in one pocket and steel in another apart from checking the dead birds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 They cannot check now on wildfowlers if they use home loads, with lead reloads in one pocket and steel in another apart from checking the dead birdsThey can confiscate birds if they think an offence has been committed. However there is no law against carrying lead shells. I will teach everyone to reload if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 What about airgun pellets and subsonic shotgun cartridges, I can't see there being an effective reasonably priced alternative for them because light projectiles just wouldn't work at the lower velocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 When lead gets banned, the time, money and effort needed to produce alternatives will be spent. Lead free ammo/cartridges will be mass produced bringing it down in price and world order will be restored. Bullet heads will become an alloy, possibly even along the lines of where they went with plumbers lead (a tin/antimony alloy). It will be resolved if there is a will to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rem708 Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) Metallic Lead is inert but the salts of are very toxic. Bright lead oxidises when brought into contact with air and this oxidisation forms a thin protective layer stopping any further deterioration. Does lead dissolve in water? If it did then we would have had a lot of leaky pipes years ago! I was raised in a lead pipe house. No doubt my cot was painted with lead based paint. I started shooting 35 years ago and developed into an avid pistol shooter who would think nothing of firing off 1000 rounds - week after week. My range had no air conditioning worth talking about. The end of the range was covered in a grey dust. I used to dig the lead out of the butts every 6 months, without using a mask, and would have a black hanky for days afterwards. The lead taken from the range smelted down to cast my own bullets and sell to others. Around the time of the pistol ban I had private medical insurance so I thought I would have my lead level tested. The results came back at 18 whereas the average was 20 micrograms/dl. I was excessively exposed to lead vapour and metallic dust and yet my test results were below average. I’m sorry but I just don’t believe the hype about metallic lead being a health issue. Edited December 15, 2013 by rem708 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) yeah I can see what your all saying , the only reason I ask is yesterday I was sitting in my pigeon hide waiting , when I starting thinking about how a ban would be a bit of a pain in the bottom for us pigeon shooters , however it would be overcome , but then I started to think about the C/F and rimfire lot and how it could ( in my opinion ) affect them the most , apart from the obvious ,finding a replacement that would or should I say could give anything near similar ballistic coefficients as traditional bullet heads , it would also mean that ALL of the current data on reloading that has been developed over the past decades would all become null and void surly ? to be fair the more I think about it the knock on effects could just go on and on . I also agree with the previous post to an extent , we are exposed to lead in one shape or another on a massive scale on a daily basis , far more than the humble wildfowl in our countryside . Edited December 15, 2013 by stevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 They cannot check now on wildfowlers if they use home loads, with lead reloads in one pocket and steel in another apart from checking the dead birds Given that wildfowling is the area with a very high level of compliance i doubt that would happen. Plus most clubs have a rule about not carrying lead on club grounds and people just wouldnt risk it. If they thought you where shooting lead they would check easily enough, just open a cartridge and have a look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 Metallic Lead is inert but the salts of are very toxic. Bright lead oxidises when brought into contact with air and this oxidisation forms a thin protective layer stopping any further deterioration. Does lead dissolve in water? If it did then we would have had a lot of leaky pipes years ago! I was raised in a lead pipe house. No doubt my cot was painted with lead based paint. I started shooting 35 years ago and developed into an avid pistol shooter who would think nothing of firing off 1000 rounds - week after week. My range had no air conditioning worth talking about. The end of the range was covered in a grey dust. I used to dig the lead out of the butts every 6 months, without using a mask, and would have a black hanky for days afterwards. The lead taken from the range smelted down to cast my own bullets and sell to others. Around the time of the pistol ban I had private medical insurance so I thought I would have my lead level tested. The results came back at 18 whereas the average was 20 micrograms/dl. I was excessively exposed to lead vapour and metallic dust and yet my test results were below average. I’m sorry but I just don’t believe the hype about metallic lead being a health issue. Well said...I quit BASC when they sided with the politicians years ago! I don't see any increase in duck numbers since it was banned and in Scotland where duck are shot with lead there is no shortage of duck Oxidised lead is the baddie. Any way what about us muzzleloaders? The usual I suppose....`your the minority so tough` approach! U. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 A good selection of lead free bullets for the reloader are allready available as is ammo loaded with such projectiles, i do believe the CCI Segmented 22LR ammo is lead free, all down to the banning of lead in California. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 No brainer ... lead ban !! ... use alternative ... thats it .... "nitro proof gun can use standard steel" ... doesnt matter how many debating societies choose to use the "lead ban as their chief topic" .. its futile living with resentment and what might of been .. .. the answer is .. go shooting with alternatives and be happy !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) For most shotgun shooters a ban on lead would make little difference. Only those who use old English style guns would not be able to use steel. I use steel for pigeon shooting and find it almost as good as lead - only at long range pigeon roost shooting do i notice a drop in performance , but with standard 32 gr loads through a game gun up to 45 yards steel will do the job fine as long as you step up to no 3 or 4 shot size. Edited December 15, 2013 by anser2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 For most shotgun shooters a ban on lead would make little difference. Only those who use old English style guns would not be able to use steel. I use steel for pigeon shooting and find it almost as good as lead - only at long range pigeon roost shooting do i notice a drop in performance , but with standard 32 gr loads through a game gun up to 45 yards steel will do the job fine as long as you step up to no 3 or 4 shot size. For small gauges and moderated guns it would render them worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 How would it affect cf shooters we already have fibreglass ballistic tips a variation on that would work for vermin some Europeans already use copper the possibilities for ammo are there but a absolute nightmare if it happened Good food for thought though All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I am working on some non lead bullets for both my .243 ( Hornady 80gr GMX and 85 gr Barnes TSX) and my 300 win mag (180gr Barnes TTSX). Up to now I have not completed my tests but the load development has been going well and I find that the loads being tested in both calibres are very accurate. Once I get the accuracy how I want it (OCW), I will then start looking at the performance/effect on the quarry. Unfortunately, no matter what we think, eventualy we will have to bow to the ones in the know . I at least will be in the know when the inevitable happens, admittedly hopefully it will not happen in my time but at least my son will be able to refer to my notes and work from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Depleted Uranium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Depleted Uranium? T-19 is tungsten 19g/ cm3 its apparently awsome stuff. i have even heard of americans loading up "00" buckshot and piercing 1/2" steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Yeah great stuff . However the cost will be ££££ we pay two sometimes three times what they pay in the states . Still I spose were just have to wait and see . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 I'd use the alternative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 the only alternative in volume would mean steel. from some research i have done with another member. the recommendation would be for under 20yard shots use +2 shotsizes (@1400fps) for beyond 20yards upto 40yards +3 shotsizes (@1400fps) for 40yards + use a minimum of "big shotsizes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Where's all the scientific evidence that shooting with lead is causing issues? There is more lead contamination caused in other ways than by shooting lead. What's being done about this? In my book lead kills better than steel that's why i will carry on using it where It's allowed. Edited December 16, 2013 by Whitebridges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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