Bum, Belly, Beak bang method?

[Oli383]

I have had my shotgun for about a month or so now and am struggling with pigeon and crow shooting down at the farm and am pretty sure im not getting the lead right. I have had 2 lessons at south worcester shooting club and was taught to lock on then add the lead, how ever after doing some research I have seen that everyone recommends and uses the bum, belly, beak bang method, I know this sounds really stupid but how do you use it regarding the lead, do you speed up the swing or pull the trigger later?. I keep getting the lead wrong with the pigeons and crows and am wondering with the B.B.B.B method do you have to add the lead when using it? With the really slow crows I have tried a touch in front and aiming at them but to no success.

Also I know people can't say how much lead to give but I work in feet if that does help. When doing clays I will not say I am an amazing shot but I hit a decent amount. Sorry its a hard question to answer.

Thanks in return Oli

Edited February 19, 2014 by Oli383

[fenboy]

Bum , belly, beak,bang works very well until you want to shoot a rabbit , they do not have a beak so then what are you going to do ?

 

Seriously though BBBB will only work well if you get the swing really going and keep swinging as and after you pull the trigger , your pulling the trigger as you get to the beak but the momentum of swing gives you the lead.

[OddJob]

You need more clay practice before getting on the live stuff for 2 reasons. 1) You risk wounding too many animals 2) The lack of success will become massively frustrating.

There are 3 main methods you can use depending on the target: sustained leaf, swing through (essentially your BBBB method) and the lock on and pull ahead. Each is used in different circumstances but this comes with practice and analysis, something clays allows you to do.

[fenboy]

Whats the sustained LEAF method Oddjob is that the one you teach your kids

[welshwarrior]

As odd job said more time on the clays will help and understand of more methods will help you have been taught the CPSAmethod it's ok works better for good shots.

 

Swing through will give you lead as you overtake the bird the barrels moving faster than the bird add lead not all but some lead range then comes into effect.

[Mentalmac]

As redicilous as it sounds, and I am no coach by any stretch of the imagination, but I was having a bad time and I was told to concentrate on the bird.

I was concentrating on the bead to much, thinking about it too much etc... Got to relax a bit concentrate on the bird and keep the swing going and I improved a lot.

[motty]

You need more clay practice before getting on the live stuff for 2 reasons. 1) You risk wounding too many animals 2) The lack of success will become massively frustrating.

There are 3 main methods you can use depending on the target: sustained leaf, swing through (essentially your BBBB method) and the lock on and pull ahead. Each is used in different circumstances but this comes with practice and analysis, something clays allows you to do.

I agree. Practice on clays is the way forward. I posted elsewhere that skeet is great for getting sight (lead) pictures for typical decoying type birds. Keep going at skeet until proficient and you will be in a far better position to kill live quarry.

[parapilot]

Practice mate, we all been there, it will just click one day. Go out with someone more experienced and get a few pointers. May be its your mount etc and not lead that's wrong.

 

Clays are good but I disagree they help you pigeon shooting, it's a different discipline, I find my live quarry shooting suffers when iv been shooting clays takes a few shots to get back into it.

 

Each to there own, but an experienced shot sharing your hide is worth their weight in gold.

[Oli383]

So when using BBBB you never have to give lead?

[Oli383]

I think when I next shoot clays I will try the swing through method as I currently use the lock on but that does work for clays. I think like everyone say practice is key here.

Thanks Oli

[pontbeck]

People see lead differently, if you can find an appropriate analogy that you understand your shooting will improve. I don't see lead, I see the gun as a bat and the clay ,or pigeon, as a ball and I bat it out of the sky. Works for me.

[poontang]

So when using BBBB you never have to give lead?

 

Unless the bird's sitting still you're going to have to give some sort of lead.

 

Don't get hung up on a particular method at the moment, you'll probably end up using more than one anyway. Concentrate on the clays, and as Motty has said, skeet would be a good starting point.

 

The rest will come in time.

[kent]

The trick is to not think too much about it, when you think you miss just look at the bird keep your head on the stock swing and shoot. Clays are predictable real birds like crows are likely to see you and flair to the side sharply, anticipate. Forget what others tell you about being behind 95 time out of 100 they never saw the shot in flight, I miss mostly in front or over the top every time I have lessons the coach will say too much or over the top but then people still pap on about me being behind birds. Very, very rarely do I put shot in the tail end of a bird yet still even in the half light they say "you were behind that one"

[Old farrier]

Hi

Don't be confused all methods work

Do you shoot gun or gun down ?

Practice on clays is good as I'm guessing your a young shooter

Find a group at your local club and shoot skeet gun down best practice for sporting targets IMO

Enjoy your gun

All the best

Of

[malantone]

An old guy told me to try and miss them in front, when I remember it works, swing through the bird and when you think you`ve swung to far squeeze the trigger.

[welshwarrior]

So when using BBBB you never have to give lead?

Impossible to say as we all see it differently we had a play on a massive crosser 85 yards out. We where discussing how much lead one guy gave it a 57 seater coach one lad 2 minis a girl judged it by trees behind the target.

 

As you can see that's massive variation most of use where mounting in front of the clay and then adding lead. Most of these guys and girls are top shots shooting FITAS for GB or England or retired from top level shooting as an A class I was the poorest shot there still the ****** mind eventually.

[fenboy]

So when using BBBB you never have to give lead?

Not lead that you are consciously thinking about , its purely the momentum of swing that gives you the lead .

 

Personally I mount on the bird then get ahead , but different styles suit different people.

[shootgun]

have a look at this mate, it may give you an roughly idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlAS8SWLd6M

[Whitebridges]

Oli383 'tis very early days. You can shoot anything using different techniques. BBBB is a popular method as is get on the target and pull through in front. Once you've mastered it there is maintained lead. John Bidwell at High Lodge in Suffolk is an advocate and he is a sublime shot. I use this method most of the time but you do know how to read a target.

Practice hard. Don't use the gun pre-mounted all the time get used to mounting it time and time again. You won't notice the bead, barrels or gun after a while and your target will break or be dead in the air and you'll wonder how it happened.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Whitebridges

[remmyman]

Hi Oli

 

The problem here as I see it is the that 'old chestnut' of establishing your own 'sight pictures' as regards perceived lead for all the various target presentations that you will encounter throughout your shooting career.

 

It's all very well, people offering their own take on lead /method etc but the fundamental problem with this is simply one of personal interpretation.

For example my 3-4 feet lead at the target won't be the same as yours(likely as not)

 

Speed of swing is crucial to perceived lead in any swing through method for example.

 

Maintained lead is great for 'buying' you time on fast targets but takes a lot of experience on long crossers as regards staying on 'line'

 

'pull away' is a great way of establishing 'line and speed 'of a target.

 

'Move, Mount, Shoot' is excellent for 'instinctive' shots.

 

Which is the right one for you? Only you will know after a lot of experimenting and practice. You will probably end up using all of them on any given day 'over the 'coys' or when shooting a 100 reg sporting or s'trap(I certainly do)

 

If you are truly lost as regards sight pictures and/or method, my advice would be to start at the target and gradually add lead untill you start connecting with a few.

 

As to well meaning shots telling you that you're behind, there are numerous reasons as to why this could be. Stopping the swing,overleading then stopping(a real problem 'cos the brain sees loads of lead but stopping loses it), head lifting etc

 

Best advice as always, see a reputable coach, trust him and work with him, it will be time and money well spent.

 

Regards remmyman

[demonwolf444]

I get lazy with my shooting and stop swinging through, miss everything. My shooting improved when i set the trap up really close with midi's screaming over me in a gully, got to hitting them and then the rest of my shooting in the season improved.

[Scully]

Never, ever , ever look at the bead, unless dry mounting in a mirror. You never look at your hand when catching a ball so don't look at your gun when shooting.Concentrate 100% on the target, and 'sweeeeep' it out of the sky. Sweep right through the target and rely on natural instinct to do the rest. You have more time than you think.

Saying all this, it wont mean a thing if your gun isn't mounted in the correct place each and every time you mount it. Get the mount right and you're more than halfway there. It all comes with time and a **** load of practise.

[bostonmick]

Are you maintaining your lead.it is al to easy to pull through the bird only to stop the swing as you pull the trigger.many a seasoned shooter can fall to this from time to time.atb

[spinach]

I like the batting out of the sky analogy, a friend of mine an artist likened it to drawing a line , " once you know where to stop drawings easy"

John.

[JDog]

So that's where I have been going wrong all of these years. I too use the BBBB method but I have had it the wrong way round and I have an extra B. My method is Beak, Belly, Bum, Bang and ******.