chrisjh Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-29743897 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I see no reason why it should. After all it had nothing to do with the licensing laws, but the gross ineptitude of the particular licensing officers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Following the shootings, Surrey Police said it was reviewing the return of the licence and had referred the matter to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC). The IPCC has since said it is independently investigating the decision of Surrey Police to return the guns. It revealed misconduct notices had been issued to three Surrey Police staff members. That sums it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Over the last 25-30 years almost every serious shooting incident has involved idiots who should never have been allowed near a water pistol let alone a firearm. Check out Bird (Whitehaven), Ryan (Hungerford), Hamilton (Dunblane), etc etc and there have been police failings in all cases and of course who ultimately suffers - US, the law abiding gun owners who face more and more scrutiny and restrictions. Even poor old Tony Martin, who shot one of our itinerant friends (but didn't get a reward possibly because he only injured the second) had an illegal shotgun. This is partly why I feel we should not pay a penny for our licences - if the police do their job properly and efficiently costs should be minimal. Plus the licence isn't for us but for the non-shooting members of the public so it is they who should pay!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 A complete and utter cock-up by the police so no, it shouldn't affect any gun laws. But then again ............................................ ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 There's certainly a sense that the admin system is not being run properly so lets save time by targetting the gun owners instead - He should never have had them back, as someone posted above, a little diligence in these matters would have prevented several of the spree killings that have tarnished all gun owners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Yup. The case last year in Newport, South Wales is another one. He was known to be suffering from depression, multiple DV callouts to the address before she moved out, and yet was allowed to retain SGC. I posted a thread a month or 2 back, on the other side of things though - North Wales Police being pro-active in revoking, the person took the matter to the courts, and his appeal was rejected. I've been known to gripe in the past about NWP taking forever with grants, variations, etc. But their approach in revocations seems pretty good, compared with other forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Another case of the police returning guns to somebody who shouldn't have them. Of course us legal gun owners will somehow get the blame. It will not be the police's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) It must be difficult for the police. The accusations against him may well have been untrue and malicious, and if so we'd all be in arms saying his guns should be returned. But how are they to know? Unless there were other mitigating factors not reported in the article. What may come of this is revocations on anything - even small or unproven, with little chance of getting your license back. Edited October 29, 2014 by aris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 This is the same as the Atherton shootings in Horden,again guns where confiscated and then returned.Another failing of the licensing authorities.I would like to see a zero tolerance on any licence holders who threatens anybody with any sort of violance.The guns should never be returned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will2490 Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 agree with zero tolerance . if you're seen as unfit to have them, and get them taken off you. why even consider giving them back when nothing will have changed?.. obviously this doesn't bring into account things like malicious rumours etc etc.. but come on.. if youre seen as too dangerous to hold a firearm why create a ticking time bomb and put them back in their hands again?.... agree also it'll be us law abiding gun owners who pay the price.... what with us all being clinically insane, psychopathic Oscar Pistorius/ Anders Brevik wannabes. if the Mirror is to be believed... think you need to be insane to believe the Mirror.. but that a different story altogether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I hate to say it but I can for see, a complete gun ban in the UK within 10 yrs .Licensing authorities are covering up mistake after mistake, our shooting organisations are not acting and fighting our corner,but hey they enter me into a free gun draw every now and again and sent me a glossy mag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 From what I've seen on the bbc he only had his guns removed because of an allegation of making threats to kill. This complaint was then withdrawn and therefore there was no reason to keep his guns. Put yourself in that situation. No complaint against you. Would you want your guns back? Should the police keep them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HW682 Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Yvette Cooper was on the news earlier saying that the gun laws need overhauling........ (again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Yvette Cooper was on the news earlier saying that the gun laws need overhauling........ (again) That's a key word for gun ban. It's I think what people call an euthemism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fielddweller Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 That's a key word for gun ban. It's I think what people call an euthemism.Vote labour next year and we will be all dismantling our cabinetsAtb Fielddweller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) There is nothing on the parliamentary table to tighten the licencing system. The fact is that if the police stick to the law, and follow the HO guidance we would all be in a better place! If , for example, the police did not enforce the speed limit and more people were speeding, and as a consequence more people were being killed on the roads,would reducing the speed limit in towns, on duel carriage ways or the motorway make any difference? No of course not. In my view, playing to the audience saying gun licencing needs to be tightened is a classic example of not bothering to look at what the real issue is, failing spectacularly to do anything to correct the problem and making proposals that will not help the situation one bit... David Edited October 29, 2014 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12boreblue Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 A very emotive subject is it not. but licensing laws are more than adequate in my opinion. The issue revolves around the allegation and (if true) the withdrawal of said allegation. If this is the case, then one must consider that their is no allegation to answer. Ergo no reason to withhold his licence. Perhaps the answer as commented on earlier, before handing back the firearms, the person should undergo a psychological assessment, and a 3 month monitoring period. But then he could of bought an illegal firearm and still committed the crime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 David based on what you have seen about this case do you think the police are at fault? Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 It gets potato heads (politicians) air time and the biased broadcasting company (BBC) something to fill up airtime with real cheap. Been happening for years David based on what you have seen about this case do you think the police are at fault? Harry Well I think it gives us chance to have a pop back at them but likely their hands wee tied by the Potato heads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat g Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Vote labour next year and we will be all dismantling our cabinets Atb Fielddweller Absolutely spot on there. Could'nt agree more. Everyone involved in any form of shooting should think long and hard before casting their vote at the next election. ATB, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 From what I've seen on the bbc he only had his guns removed because of an allegation of making threats to kill. This complaint was then withdrawn and therefore there was no reason to keep his guns. Put yourself in that situation. No complaint against you. Would you want your guns back? Should the police keep them? A very emotive subject is it not. but licensing laws are more than adequate in my opinion. The issue revolves around the allegation and (if true) the withdrawal of said allegation. If this is the case, then one must consider that their is no allegation to answer. Ergo no reason to withhold his licence. Perhaps the answer as commented on earlier, before handing back the firearms, the person should undergo a psychological assessment, and a 3 month monitoring period. But then he could of bought an illegal firearm and still committed the crime! What did the police do about the complainant who retracted the complaint? How could they keep his guns when there was not complaint? Yvette Cooper was on the news earlier saying that the gun laws need overhauling........ (again) What is being done to enquire from her the reasons that she has made this statement in light of the retracted complaint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxfordfowler Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 The Police Commissioner being interviewed on the BBC this afternoon threw into the discussion the true cost of issuing a Firearm/Shotgun licence as £200+. Then helpfully added that the general public (taxes) are subsidising the shooting fraternity. Here we go again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 There is nothing on the parliamentary table to tighten the licencing system. The fact is that if the police stick to the law, and follow the HO guidance we would all be in a better place! If , for example, the police did not enforce the speed limit and more people were speeding, and as a consequence more people were being killed on the roads,would reducing the speed limit in towns, on duel carriage ways or the motorway make any difference? No of course not. In my view, playing to the audience saying gun licencing needs to be tightened is a classic example of not bothering to look at what the real issue is, failing spectacularly to do anything to correct the problem and making proposals that will not help the situation one bit... David Then should not basc and other representative bodies be pushing for recording and traceability of all duck sold to game dealers and enforcement of the law as it already stands, resulting in the prosecution of the idiots still selling lead shot duck! Then the antis would not be able to press for a complete ban on lead shot citing "non-compliance" as they are presently! And why are our representative bodies supporting an increase in gun certificate fees? I don't want or need a certificate, what use or benefit is a certificate to me? The public and police benefit from requiring me to hold a certificate for "public safety" reasons or to exercise "control" over me so why should the public purse not pay for the police to administer certification? we should not be required to pay at all let alone support an unjustified increase in fees bought about by unaccountable incompetence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuddster Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 hold on, wasnt there a thread about police doing ad hoc security visits lately that was royally shot down on PW? I have an anti-gun/shooting/me/everyone neighbour who I know would happily allege anything to cause me trouble-so I tread carefully and have little or no contact with them. however.supposing she does make a complaint, say me shouting a threat over the garden fence-I get my guns seized and being a family man in full time employment,without so much as a speeding ticket to my name and a host of character references-I instruct BASC of which I have been a member of for some 20 years to act on my behalf to get my guns back. happy days now I've got my guns back but wait up I want to kill her next door right now-who's going to stop me? The Police? My FEO? how many PW posters have been on here bleating as they'd had their guns taken? as we're playing the blame game-sorry to be odd one out but I blame the murderer. f. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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