Anyone still use no.7 shot for pigeons?

[evo]

have to say , personally don't care what distance they are as long as they hit the floor and don't move once they do ,,fed up legging after them through fields :lol:

 

the only 7s I used on pigeons where the blue eley Olympics, I had 500 of those and have to say I was very impressed with them so much so I went to buy some more , well until I saw the price,

 

on the pigeons I use whatever is the cheapest so buy 28 7 1/2s clay loads and they work fine no problem at all, I certainly don't use them on the crows though as they have amour plating on

 

I,ve been using proper carts in 4.5s and 5.5s 32g on the crows and all I can say is if I hit them they stay hit, I,ve also had some cracking long shots with these carts so will be sticking with them from now on as they are cheap as chips

 

atb Evo

[ditchman]

on of the best ways in judging distance is (as i have said before).........cut a few hazel wands and stick them in your area of field of fire....at 10-25-35yds...and proberly 40 yds............you will be quite surprised at the outcome...........

[Guest cookoff013]

have to say , personally don't care what distance they are as long as they hit the floor and don't move once they do ,,fed up legging after them through fields :lol:

 

the only 7s I used on pigeons where the blue eley Olympics, I had 500 of those and have to say I was very impressed with them so much so I went to buy some more , well until I saw the price,

 

on the pigeons I use whatever is the cheapest so buy 28 7 1/2s clay loads and they work fine no problem at all, I certainly don't use them on the crows though as they have amour plating on

 

I,ve been using proper carts in 4.5s and 5.5s 32g on the crows and all I can say is if I hit them they stay hit, I,ve also had some cracking long shots with these carts so will be sticking with them from now on as they are cheap as chips

 

atb Evo

 

this is a fantastic post, highlighting more than a few issues for the "sporting shooter".

 

#1, Money is king, cheaper the better. how many times have we heard "i use clay cartridges, because they are cheap"?

#2 cheap cartridges can be effective.... there was a NSI distributor selling 1oz #5 for £160/k they got snapped up. a far cry from the £180/k-28g-#7.5

#3 it seems this poster has found a good cartridge thats value for money., (thats proper cartridges business model. make good shells cheaper.)

#4 see #1.

[supershot243]

Still ? Have shot 7's out of preference for ever, Archie Coates recommended them too and I bet he'd have used 5's if they were better.

sorry to say this pigeon shooting was easy then i use 5 32 gr

[RossEM]

I use Hull Imperial 28g 6s through 1/4 & 3/4 choke for everything except wildfowl.My gun likes them. They're fast and hit hard.

 

Having had several bad experiences of high wounding rates with 7s on 35 yard decoyed pigeons, I don't go near them anymore.

 

Cheap cartridges are a false economy - pattern test your gun with a decent all round cartridge for your discipline and stick to it.

[motty]

sorry to say this pigeon shooting was easy then i use 5 32 gr

Eh?

 

I use Hull Imperial 28g 6s through 1/4 & 3/4 choke for everything except wildfowl.My gun likes them. They're fast and hit hard.

 

Having had several bad experiences of high wounding rates with 7s on 35 yard decoyed pigeons, I don't go near them anymore.

 

Cheap cartridges are a false economy - pattern test your gun with a decent all round cartridge for your discipline and stick to it.

I suspect poor shooting was at fault here - nothing else. A no.7 shot cartridge will kill a pigeon every time if place correctly.

Cheap cartridges are not false economy. I usually use the cheapest shells i can get. When i'm shooting well i expect at least a 75% success rate.

[fortune]

4,5,6,7,8 >> 25, 29, 29, 30, 32 Personal preferences, technical reasons or sheep. Are we getting into a gun fashion era? Recently I've read post about how short barrels, double triggers, side by side versus over and under are seeming to be getting more and more prevalent. I have all sorts of guns from pump to sbs to o/u to single barrel with all sorts of barrel length and chokes and I just take what I fancy and go shoot. Back in the 80’s I invited a friend to come out shooting over some fallen wheat. I put him under a flight line in field and then set myself under another line in the adjacent field. He was soon shooting a lot. I had hardly any birds using my field and after about an hour and a half I walked over to see how he was doing. I observed from a distance to notice that he was dropping birds at hell of a distance from his hide. I joined him in his hide and asked what cartridges he was using and he said that he was using Maionchi (anyone remember them) 1. 1/8 oz of No 8’s. If I hadn’t seen it I wouldn’t have believed it. The standard pigeon cartridge years ago was Eley grand prix 1. 1/16 or if you wanted a bit more punch it was Eley Maximum. And for the extreme shot there was the Alphamax 1. ¼ oz. Personally I don’t think about it too much and the cartridge that I shoot is what my fingers touch in the bag and the choke is what the barrel has in it because most of my guns are fixed choke.

[the hitman]

Last year I started using Trust trap 28g 7.5 cartridges , which I guess is a UK 7 ( Trust are Spanish ) , and have used them on pigeons ever since . Yes they are cheap £ 154 per 1000 from Bywell , however they kill pigeons very well indeed .

I have tried heavier loads on pigeons , but experience has taught me that 28 g 7 s are more than adequate .

[flycoy]

Hi all,

As we all know, the woodie is our most challenging of quarry and we owe it respect, killing it quickly and cleanly.

would respectfully suggest patterning your guns to see which size, load and choke performs the best at a given range.

we should be looking at 147 ish pellets in a 30 inch circle to cleanly kill a pigeon, so well over 50% of the load in a 5.

we might drop a 60 yarder with one pellet in the right place but how many birds take the shot and expire a long time after.

had pattern plates on show at the BSS they got a lot of interest and discussion. well worth doing if you've got the space to do it.

 

Flycoy

[matty*]

Any body still use no.7 shot for pigeons? Ive said it befor and ill say it again my best load for pigeons is rio target 28g 7. In my xtrema me the gun and that load seem to go together very well.

[RossEM]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[motty]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good point, well made!

[Jack9494]

The modern trend seems to be heavier cartridges, bigger shot (ie 5s), and more open chokes. Just wondered if anyone uses 7s with a tight choke still.?

I usually use 28g for decoying close in and i wider choke but when i am shooting high birds i'll go up to 30g with a tighter choke.

(Note) The type of cartridge will effect your pattern.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Jack9494

[Hamster]

Good point, well made!

[Berettacocker]

32gram 6s clear pigeon. I like to feel confident that everything ( in range ) I shoot at will be dead. I used to shoot 7 1/2 clay shells all the time, with good results and big bags, but as you become a more proficient shot, you start thinking, that's a bit stretchy with an ounce of 7 1/2, so don't shoot. Fair play, very sportsmanlike, but if your good enough to kill long birds consistently, why under arm yourself ?

[RossEM]

Dunno what happened there!

 

My reply was something about poor shooting being not to blame, as on each occasion I switched to 6's and starting getting clean kills. But I won't claim to be an expert shot!! Neither am I a ballistics expert - but I know what works for me.

[ditchman]

I changed to 6's from 7's about 7 years ago .....i had a good day with some cartridges someone gave me...and i stuck with them......due to the type of decoying i do...(fairly close in stuff....15-30yds)....i think im going to change back to 7's....my hit rate will increase but my kill rate might go down......but thats what i have dogs for......i will stick to 28gm...

[Davyo]

haha like it

Stevo,you'd bring them down throwing custard pies,but the technical question is,light crust or a heavier crust?

Edited March 4, 2015 by Davyo

[oliver90owner]

I entirely agree with fortune - apart from missing out hymax at an ounce and a quarter. As I recall alphamax was heavier loads including the magnum varieties of 1 1/2 ounces? Back in the 1960s we simply reloaded with 1 1/4 oz of 5 shot as lead was considerably cheaper than powder per cartridge. What we did find was that the right barrel of my old magnum sbs threw a lousy pattern with pellets all around the edge of the pattern. Taking that choke out to improved, from about half choke, made it a much better pattern and much more effective.

 

RAB

[mossy835]

trust 28grm #7 I don't have a plastic ban

 

 

these are very good, thats all i use.

[wymberley]

Hi all,

As we all know, the woodie is our most challenging of quarry and we owe it respect, killing it quickly and cleanly.

would respectfully suggest patterning your guns to see which size, load and choke performs the best at a given range.

we should be looking at 147 ish pellets in a 30 inch circle to cleanly kill a pigeon, so well over 50% of the load in a 5.

we might drop a 60 yarder with one pellet in the right place but how many birds take the shot and expire a long time after.

had pattern plates on show at the BSS they got a lot of interest and discussion. well worth doing if you've got the space to do it.

 

Flycoy

Good post although the figures aren't quite right (but I note the "ish"). The vital area of 44 pigeons will fit in a 30" circle and it needs 3 pellets to kill. Therefore, the 147 is about right (44x3= 132). I would imagine that if anyone can get their hands on an old Eley Diary and look at the maximum effective ranges for various loads (weight and shot size) and chokes, they'd be very surprised. It is for good reason that this table has been omitted for many years. Things have changed but the vital area of the pigeon remains the same size. Other studies at the University College London while the Ballistic Research Laboratory (BRL) was doing its work revealed that a shotgun pattern conforms to the Theory of Probability (ToP). This was not included in the BRL Report, being outside of its remit. Anyone doing a 6 shot (count not size) pattern test will be aware that they probably got 6 different pellet counts and then rightly took the average figure to obtain the result. Obviously, some will have less strikes than the average figure and some more. Our problem is that we need 3 strikes with every shot - the ToP indicates that if we settled for the 3 strike count, we'd only be successful some 58% of the time. The ToP reflects that to achieve this with every shot is in practical terms a no chance possibility. An average of 5 will give a 85% chance, 5.5 a 90% and 6, 95% in round figures. We have to rely on a best possible performance based on sound reasoning. Let's go with the 5.5 at 90% as an example.

 

The next problem is that within the 30 yard circle, excluding TC choke, sufficient pellet density is never achieved throughout the whole area once choke is introduced as the spread is concentrated into the pattern centre (Gauss), the extent of which increases in line with the degree of choke applied. This has been known for over 100 years, but we in the UK missed that fact for the majority of that time span. What this means is that rarely, if ever, an effective pattern spread exceeds a 25" diameter circle. Flycoy's 147 is more than sufficient to do the job if we consider just a 20" circle but would need an extra 20 if this were raised to 25".

 

Much of this is only relevant at maximum range.

 

So what does this all matter to the guy who's shooting 1oz of No7 through a gun which which actually shoots IC RH and 1/2 LH barrels for his chosen max' ranges of 35 and 40 yards respectively or another whose gun shoots 1/2 and Full for his chosen 40 and 45 yards? It matters not a jot as provided they can both shoot reasonably well they've both utilised the pattern spread to its maximum effectiveness and have also ensured a sufficient pellet strike to obtain a clean kill as far as is reasonably possible.

 

In short, they've got it cracked. Yep, OK, that's the theory but it's a pretty fair starter for ten.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Phil as far as I am concerned the Eley table you elude to is to be treated like the governments vehicle stopping distances figures.

 

 

 

Both are well out of date!

[grahamch]

Used to use 7/8 no 7 hull high pheasant out of my Alex Martin sxs for years with no problems.

 

Have been using eley firsts on pheasants with good results

[flycoy]

Good post although the figures aren't quite right (but I note the "ish"). The vital area of 44 pigeons will fit in a 30" circle and it needs 3 pellets to kill. Therefore, the 147 is about right (44x3= 132). I would imagine that if anyone can get their hands on an old Eley Diary and look at the maximum effective ranges for various loads (weight and shot size) and chokes, they'd be very surprised. It is for good reason that this table has been omitted for many years. Things have changed but the vital area of the pigeon remains the same size. Other studies at the University College London while the Ballistic Research Laboratory (BRL) was doing its work revealed that a shotgun pattern conforms to the Theory of Probability (ToP). This was not included in the BRL Report, being outside of its remit. Anyone doing a 6 shot (count not size) pattern test will be aware that they probably got 6 different pellet counts and then rightly took the average figure to obtain the result. Obviously, some will have less strikes than the average figure and some more. Our problem is that we need 3 strikes with every shot - the ToP indicates that if we settled for the 3 strike count, we'd only be successful some 58% of the time. The ToP reflects that to achieve this with every shot is in practical terms a no chance possibility. An average of 5 will give a 85% chance, 5.5 a 90% and 6, 95% in round figures. We have to rely on a best possible performance based on sound reasoning. Let's go with the 5.5 at 90% as an example.

 

The next problem is that within the 30 yard circle, excluding TC choke, sufficient pellet density is never achieved throughout the whole area once choke is introduced as the spread is concentrated into the pattern centre (Gauss), the extent of which increases in line with the degree of choke applied. This has been known for over 100 years, but we in the UK missed that fact for the majority of that time span. What this means is that rarely, if ever, an effective pattern spread exceeds a 25" diameter circle. Flycoy's 147 is more than sufficient to do the job if we consider just a 20" circle but would need an extra 20 if this were raised to 25".

 

Much of this is only relevant at maximum range.

 

So what does this all matter to the guy who's shooting 1oz of No7 through a gun which which actually shoots IC RH and 1/2 LH barrels for his chosen max' ranges of 35 and 40 yards respectively or another whose gun shoots 1/2 and Full for his chosen 40 and 45 yards? It matters not a jot as provided they can both shoot reasonably well they've both utilised the pattern spread to its maximum effectiveness and have also ensured a sufficient pellet strike to obtain a clean kill as far as is reasonably possible.

 

In short, they've got it cracked. Yep, OK, that's the theory but it's a pretty fair starter for ten.

[flycoy]

Wymberley

Thanks for the very educated reply , know who to talk to on pattern plate technical spec now.

Be good to see more pattening to prove performance in lethality.

Flycoy