Lunatic in east London

[Liamey]

They doint trust the police to be armed.

I thought that they were arming some officers? Witnesses reported a delay of 10-15 minutes which seems awful long, given of what I remember of London where there seemed to be an officer on every street corner. Having said that, it was quite some time ago.

[shaun4860]

One warning has been given

 

There won't be anymore

 

[Doc Holliday]

Ooh! I do love a good handbags session :-)

 

It sounds to me though that the perp didn't have much of clue of what he was shouting about anyway. His love for a destabilised country that is teeming with radical islamists and other ne'erdowells?

 

I know Assad was accused of crimes against his own people but it seems to me that people of the middle east do better when they have a hard nosed bustard in charge. Look at the country before all that Arab spring uprising kicked off, any one could go there and there was none of this **** with ISIS and terrorists.

[ordnance]

 

I thought that they were arming some officers? Witnesses reported a delay of 10-15 minutes which seems awful long, given of what I remember of London where there seemed to be an officer on every street corner. Having said that, it was quite some time ago.

Arming some officers is not good enough, they all need to be armed so the first officers on the scene can respond and not have to wait for armed response times have changed.

Edited December 6, 2015 by ordnance

[amateur]

It looks as though the level of armed response was spot on in this instance, the guy was tasered, not shot dead, so, as said earlier, can at least now be interrogated to see if he was a one-off nutter or part of a plan.

[Liamey]

Arming some officers is not good enough, they all need to be armed so the first officers on the scene can respond and not have to wait for armed response times have changed.

I agree with you, however to do so will be quite the undertaking in a time where we hear of spending cuts etc. let alone time is pressing and the threat is present now. On top of equipping all police officers with firearms there would no doubt be refresher training, psychological testing etc. Maybe this is what it will come to if there are any more terrible incidents like this.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Liamey

[TIGHTCHOKE]

It appears that two tasers were used.

[fortune]

It looks as though the level of armed response was spot on in this instance, the guy was tasered, not shot dead, so, as said earlier, can at least now be interrogated to see if he was a one-off nutter or part of a plan.

I think that this is about the right level to deal with this sort of event. As we all know,when the police are armed they almost inevitability start shooting the wrong person. There was the bloke who was a furniture repairer and who had a chair leg tied to his crossbar that they shoot because they thought it was a gun. There was a bloke in a mini, Blair peach, I think who was shot because they thought he was a terrorist. There was the Brazilian bloke on the tube. There was a bloke in Hastings who was thought to be a drug dealer. He was naked in his bed with his girlfriend and when they burst in on him they said that they thought he was armed. I get like that some mornings. It would take a long time and a lot of training to get an effective armed force that didn't shoot more people than the terrorists. You've only got to see what it is like out in America when there are so many armed officers that get into fire mode. Very difficult to get the balance right.

Edited December 6, 2015 by fortune

[secretagentmole]

Ooh! I do love a good handbags session :-)

 

It sounds to me though that the perp didn't have much of clue of what he was shouting about anyway. His love for a destabilised country that is teeming with radical islamists and other ne'erdowells?

 

I know Assad was accused of crimes against his own people but it seems to me that people of the middle east do better when they have a hard nosed bustard in charge. Look at the country before all that Arab spring uprising kicked off, any one could go there and there was none of this **** with ISIS and terrorists.

Yes sometimes the best glue to keep a country together seems to be the blood of the populace that live there!

[winnie&bezza]

Referring to all police should be armed, we did a extension/kitchen refurb for an armed response officer in the MET who did 2 years on streets and then 2 years teaching vice versa. At the time of working there the Charlie hebdo Attacks happened so I got talking to him about it and the idea of all uk officers being armed and his words were 'you must be joking! Some of the idiots I get coming through I wouldn't trust them with a car. Really hung Ho *****. He also said costings would be too much, not so much in buying guns but training etc. He was a nice fella as I arrived at his house one morning and he said it got something for you (he knew I was a shooting man) and he handed me a accuracy international cap and catalogue as he had to take a rifle back to them that they borrowed.

[Scully]

There's is footage of it on FB. It was apparently filmed by a Muslim shouting at him 'You're no Muslim' and clobbered by a Muslim copper.

He went as quietly as a lamb following the taser.

Meanwhile, other people will have been stabbed in other parts of the country yesterday, but no mention of them on the news at all, let alone as terrorist attacks. Strange really.

[fortune]

Referring to all police should be armed, we did a extension/kitchen refurb for an armed response officer in the MET who did 2 years on streets and then 2 years teaching vice versa. At the time of working there the Charlie hebdo Attacks happened so I got talking to him about it and the idea of all uk officers being armed and his words were 'you must be joking! Some of the idiots I get coming through I wouldn't trust them with a car. Really hung Ho t**ts. He also said costings would be too much, not so much in buying guns but training etc. He was a nice fella as I arrived at his house one morning and he said it got something for you (he knew I was a shooting man) and he handed me a accuracy international cap and catalogue as he had to take a rifle back to them that they borrowed.

I've been on a military range after the police had been on their training and there were so many live rounds that they had left lying about on the ground it was unbelievable. And there was the incident of the handguns left on a vehicle roof that drove off and the guns fell off along the road somewhere. A member of the public handed them in o only to be arrested for being in illegal possession of firearms. When they worked out that they were police firearms it was all hushed up to cover it all up. I don't understand why the police are such a load of cowboys when they get near guns. You'd think that there were a few brain cells in amongst them somewhere out there but I don't see much evidence of it.

[winnie&bezza]

I've been on a military range after the police had been on their training and there were so many live rounds that they had left lying about on the ground it was unbelievable. And there was the incident of the handguns left on a vehicle roof that drove off and the guns fell off along the road somewhere. A member of the public handed them in o only to be arrested for being in illegal possession of firearms. When they worked out that they were police firearms it was all hushed up to cover it all up. I don't understand why the police are such a load of cowboys when they get near guns. You'd think that there were a few brain cells in amongst them somewhere out there but I don't see much evidence of it.

Yeah I can imagine there is some idiots in there for sure. Just because they're police doesn't mean they are all perfect citizens. The chap I worked for was a straight to the point kind of guy and I can imagine being very professional in his job but who knows.

[walshie]

I don't understand why we have to label everyone. Whether the attacker was a full-blown terrorist, a sympathiser, or care in the community, is pretty irrelevant. The end result is the same. People being stabbed for no reason.

 

Why does every thread have to turn into a police bashing thread?

[poontang]

I think that this is about the right level to deal with this sort of event. As we all know,when the police are armed they almost inevitability start shooting the wrong person. There was the bloke who was a furniture repairer and who had a chair leg tied to his crossbar that they shoot because they thought it was a gun. There was a bloke in a mini, Blair peach, I think who was shot because they thought he was a terrorist. There was the Brazilian bloke on the tube.

 

What a load of codswallop.

 

Blair Peach died after being beaten with a cosh. He wasn't shot.

Harry Stanley was shot after the public had contacted police saying they had seen 'an Irishman carrying a gun wrapped in a bag'. Stanley was well known to police with convictions for armed robbery, drug dealing and GBH. He was a violent man who refused a command to stand still, instead turning towards the police and raising the package in his hands. What would you have done? Waited for him to fire?

De Menezes was shot by police acting on information received. They can't be held responsible for the actions of their superiors who passed on that information.

[jonny thomas]

I don't understand why we have to label everyone. Whether the attacker was a full-blown terrorist, a sympathiser, or care in the community, is pretty irrelevant. The end result is the same. People being stabbed for no reason.

 

Why does every thread have to turn into a police bashing thread?

Bang on sir

Why do people de humanise police officers?

I've played rugby with a copper he was no different than the rest of us proper shorts on brains out sort of bloke

Don't agree with arming all police but more should be armed

On another point if there was a shoot to kill policy on terror suspects I should think there would be far fewer

[Dougy]

Bang on sir

Why do people de humanise police officers?

I've played rugby with a copper he was no different than the rest of us proper shorts on brains out sort of bloke

Don't agree with arming all police but more should be armed

On another point if there was a shoot to kill policy on terror suspects I should think there would be far fewer

 

The "suspects" bit after being shot and killed ? would that be changed by any chance.

 

After the event ?

[ph5172]

To get back on topic, do i think he was a 'terrorist'? ..... No

 

Do i think he has Mental Health issues.... Yes

 

I think the Syria comment was his catalyst and i doubt he has any affiliations aside from just having issues. He went equipped to do indiscriminate damage to people but equipped like many people in gangs you walk past on the street (from what i am led to believe it was a kitchen / hobby / fishing knife)

 

 

But then again 2 people armed with Machetes and cleavers did what they did............. the world is a strange strange place

[STOTTO]

Yes too bad only a taser was used. In an ideal world the scum who did this would have been thrown onto the live rail, save you all the expense of do gooder legal aid lawyers. Hope the victim makes it through ok.

 

I bet a surge Pigeon Watch crowd-funding would put a few shillings in the meter!

[ordnance]

 

It would take a long time and a lot of training to get an effective armed force that didn't shoot more people than the terrorists. You've only got to see what it is like out in America when there are so many armed officers that get into fire mode. Very difficult to get the balance right.

Every time this question comes up i ask the same question and raely rarely get a sensible answer. I will try again, how do they manage to arm the police on and off duty aready in the UK / Northern Ireland, none of the things that people talk about happen. They doint go around shooting people, they doint leave firearms and ammo lying around etc. ? As for cost, all training costs money firearms training seems reasonable to me. This time he had a knife and unarmed police were first on the scene it took time for armed police to arrive, next time it could be an AK/47 lots of people could die before armed police arrive.

 

 

PSNI.

The total cost of the

2 week initial firearm course

is

£ 582.94

 

 

 

Attacks happened so I got talking to him about it and the idea of all uk officers being armed and his words were 'you must be joking! Some of the idiots I get coming through I wouldn't trust them with a car. Really hung Ho ******. He also said costings would be too much, not so much in buying guns but training etc

All that shows is he hasn't a clue what he is talking about.

[malkiserow]

To get back on topic, do i think he was a 'terrorist'? ..... No

 

Do i think he has Mental Health issues.... Yes

 

I think the Syria comment was his catalyst and i doubt he has any affiliations aside from just having issues. He went equipped to do indiscriminate damage to people but equipped like many people in gangs you walk past on the street (from what i am led to believe it was a kitchen / hobby / fishing knife)

 

 

But then again 2 people armed with Machetes and cleavers did what they did............. the world is a strange strange place

 

The world is NOT strange but some people are right queer ...... as they say in Yorkshire.

 

maybe we need a new saying..... "a nutter without a cause"

[welsh1]

Every time this question comes up i ask the same question and raely rarely get a sensible answer. I will try again, how do they manage to arm the police on and off duty aready in the UK / Northern Ireland, none of the things that people talk about happen. They doint go around shooting people, they doint leave firearms and ammo lying around etc. ? As for cost, all training costs money firearms training seems reasonable to me. This time he had a knife and unarmed police were first on the scene it took time for armed police to arrive, next time it could be an AK/47 lots of people could die before armed police arrive.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/officer-wrong-to-shoot-suspect-31292904.html

[winnie&bezza]

Every time this question comes up i ask the same question and raely rarely get a sensible answer. I will try again, how do they manage to arm the police on and off duty aready in the UK / Northern Ireland, none of the things that people talk about happen. They doint go around shooting people, they doint leave firearms and ammo lying around etc. ? As for cost, all training costs money firearms training seems reasonable to me. This time he had a knife and unarmed police were first on the scene it took time for armed police to arrive, next time it could be an AK/47 lots of people could die before armed police arrive.

 

 

 

All that shows is he hasn't a clue what he is talking about.

Well maybe thats true but with the amount of officers in the uk (all I can find is from 2013) and that's 132,235 then times taut by the figures quoted, then that's over £77 million. I haven't a clue if they would dandy ion that but in the schemes of things compared to the billions pledged to our arms then I couldn't see why.

[longspoon]

Given you derailed things by attacking a hard working group of individuals (i.e. Legal aid soliciors) with a pointless political slur it is somewhat rich to try and 'get things back on track'. Is it not possible to discuss a serious incident without putting the boot in?

I thought you had left the forum !

[ordnance]

 

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/officer-wrong-to-shoot-suspect-31292904.html

One incident 6 years ago. Do you see that as a good reason not to arm the police.