Junior Doctors - Strike Action

[Vince Green]

 

 

Those "bye bye doctors" can move elsewhere to more lucrative jobs......

I don't think so, British doctors are among the best paid in the world, that's why so many foreign doctors want to come here. You can't just take it on pay though, they get tens of thousands of pounds in allowances on top.

 

This strike is about who holds the upper hand, the doctors don't like being dictated to, that's the real issue at the heart of this.

[toontastic]

Fantastic.

Fantastic, you don't want the lawfully elected government so key workers go on strike to get them out and sod the voters.

[norfolk dumpling]

Having listened to both sides putting forward their arguements on virtually every news programme over the past year or so none of them has explained in simple terms their differences. They seem to have lost the wood in the trees. Hunt worries me as there is no doubt in my mind he lied about weekend death rates. In fact this, for me, was the only clear fact which he stated time an time again incorrectly. I've got a feeling these two sides couldn't agree if was night or day. Get rid of Hunt and iron out their differences. I don't buy into the theory Tories are privatising NHS and having 'enjoyed' some truly horrible experiences over the past 36mths with our disabled son I can say change is needed. A real test for our new PM.

[Medic1281]

Hunt wants a 7 day service, and rightly so. However, he wants to enforce a 7 day service without increasing staffing levels. So basically wants everyone who works 5 days to work 7. So with no extra staff this will either mean a reduced service during the week (no gains achieved) or the doctors, nurses, admin, support staff etc to work extra hours. It also highlights that almost all community based services are only weekdays too. So there will need to be further investment into district nurses, social workers, care agencies, out of hours gp's to make weekend discharges possible and safe. I'm not saying these things don't happen at weekends, but weekend staff is minimum.

It is not possible to do what he wants with the existing resources. The nhs needs a massive injection of funds to get it operating a truly 7 day service. It needs an investment in staff both in hospital and community based.

I feel hunt is only trying to set the nhs up to fail to enable privatisation. I agree with his 7 day working but he wants it for the wrong reasons.

I generally support the doctors in their stance, but I don't think striking is the correct way to go. Unfortunately I'm not sure how they can get there voice across.

[Laird Lugton]

I don't think so, British doctors are among the best paid in the world, that's why so many foreign doctors want to come here. You can't just take it on pay though, they get tens of thousands of pounds in allowances on top.

 

This strike is about who holds the upper hand, the doctors don't like being dictated to, that's the real issue at the heart of this.

But life isn't all about money, a lot of Doctors move for a better lifestyle, however if you are going to be flogged to death you might as well be remunerated for it. I earn a good amount a year but am knackered. I would happily trade a third of it to have a better lifestyle.

 

 

But

Fantastic, you don't want the lawfully elected government so key workers go on strike to get them out and sod the voters.

I like the lawfully elected government but I also believe a bit of chaos every now and then shakes up the establishment, hence why I think brexit was a fantastic opportunity to give the establishment a kicking. Personally my share options in my company since brexit have lost a third, but so what? It's only money......

 

Crack on Doctors and see what you can achieve.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Laird Lugton

[Vince Green]

Hunt wants a 7 day service, and rightly so. However, he wants to enforce a 7 day service without increasing staffing levels. So basically wants everyone who works 5 days to work 7. So with no extra staff this will either mean a reduced service during the week (no gains achieved) or the doctors, nurses, admin, support staff etc to work extra hours. It also highlights that almost all community based services are only weekdays too. So there will need to be further investment into district nurses, social workers, care agencies, out of hours gp's to make weekend discharges possible and safe. I'm not saying these things don't happen at weekends, but weekend staff is minimum.

It is not possible to do what he wants with the existing resources. The nhs needs a massive injection of funds to get it operating a truly 7 day service. It needs an investment in staff both in hospital and community based.

I feel hunt is only trying to set the nhs up to fail to enable privatisation. I agree with his 7 day working but he wants it for the wrong reasons.

I generally support the doctors in their stance, but I don't think striking is the correct way to go. Unfortunately I'm not sure how they can get there voice across.

How about a slightly different point of view on this? to achieve a 7 day service is going to take time and "Rome wasn't built in a day". The doctors have to be part of the plan and they were given a 13% pay increase to accept the new contracts. The rest will follow later once the first stage has been agreed.

To go on TV rejecting the whole thing citing all sorts of things that are not in place yet is just either politically nieve or blatant stirring the brown stuff.

 

The NHS will never be privatised, its too big and too complicated. That's just a scare scenario dreamed up by the socialist left to frighten the public in election campaigns since the 80s. There is no evidence it has ever been a proposition. However, as technology moves forward the NHS will have to get more into partnership with the private sector because they don't have the skills or the resources.

[Scully]

But life isn't all about money, a lot of Doctors move for a better lifestyle, however if you are going to be flogged to death you might as well be remunerated for it. I earn a good amount a year but am knackered. I would happily trade a third of it to have a better lifestyle.

 

 

But I like the lawfully elected government but I also believe a bit of chaos every now and then shakes up the establishment, hence why I think brexit was a fantastic opportunity to give the establishment a kicking. Personally my share options in my company since brexit have lost a third, but so what? It's only money......

 

Crack on Doctors and see what you can achieve.

 

I think that's a good post, and would agree with it entirely. I like a bit of anarchy now and then; lets the establishment know they're there to govern, not control.

[Medic1281]

How about a slightly different point of view on this? to achieve a 7 day service is going to take time and "Rome wasn't built in a day". The doctors have to be part of the plan and they were given a 13% pay increase to accept the new contracts. The rest will follow later once the first stage has been agreed.

To go on TV rejecting the whole thing citing all sorts of things that are not in place yet is just either politically nieve or blatant stirring the brown stuff.

 

The NHS will never be privatised, its too big and too complicated. That's just a scare scenario dreamed up by the socialist left to frighten the public in election campaigns since the 80s. There is no evidence it has ever been a proposition. However, as technology moves forward the NHS will have to get more into partnership with the private sector because they don't have the skills or the resources.

I see where your coming from, however the 13% pay rise isn't real, it's an increase in basic wages but is taken away by the changes in unsocial hours payment. It certainly makes a nice sound bite for hunt, but not a true reflection of take home pay.

The profitable parts of the NHS Is already being privatised, cancer screening in Staffordshire is private, out of hours GP services in some areas are now private companies. Urgent care centres and mi or injuries units are already privatised in some areas. It's already happening!

[BrowningB525]

I see where your coming from, however the 13% pay rise isn't real, it's an increase in basic wages but is taken away by the changes in unsocial hours payment. It certainly makes a nice sound bite for hunt, but not a true reflection of take home pay.

The profitable parts of the NHS Is already being privatised, cancer screening in Staffordshire is private, out of hours GP services in some areas are now private companies. Urgent care centres and mi or injuries units are already privatised in some areas. It's already happening!

I am not completely opposed to private companies offering services to the nhs as long as it remains free at the point of use.

 

Private companies would struggle to cream off much more money than gps. In my old home town there is now a surgery where multiple practices work out of one building. This is hardly good value for the tax payer. Multiple sets of admin staff, doctors and partners.

[Medic1281]

But who mops up the non profitable work? We are paying the private companies similar rates to what the NHS are paid, but they cherry pick the profitable work. Leaving the rest for the NHS. The NHS did everything for that price.

[old man]

I don't buy into the theory Tories are privatising NHS A real test for our new PM.

"Do you not," as we say here.

 

I know of at least 4 areas here that have gone already. Hearing, Dermatology and two different world players into Hospitals and Nursing?

I am not saying they are all bad, but, they and we are then subject to the market to be sold on like cattle for a profit?

The problem as i see it personally is that the NHS has become victim of it's own success? Trying to keep up with technology and ever increasing demand for such treatments is impossible but who would like the task of refusing someone a potential lifesaver?

Couple this scenario with us trying to provide free health care to half of the world who have not contributed and 75% of our population who have no feeling of personal responsibility for their own health leads us to where we are today?

 

The solution? some very hard common sense decisions taken by politico's who have only gravitated to their own positions by selling their own heady myths of good news to voters who don't want to hear any bad news?

Sadly I don't think so?

We are in a real mess?

 

I just remember that a lot of the structures we enjoy today were not freely given by the so called upper class but negotiated by the withdrawal of labour by the so called lower class?

 

Think on, maybe?

 

Off out now to wreak havoc in a field.

[four-wheel-drive]

Just a note to all of this thing about people going on strike I should add that I am in no way a Tory but years ago people used to look up to doctors and teachers they was respected by most people as being above the rest of us people who just work to get money for food etc but it seems that today there is little difference all that matters in the end is money all very sad really.

 

 

It all sort of fits in with giving knighthoods to politicians friends and pop singers actors sports people etc etc.

Edited September 3, 2016 by four-wheel-drive

[Vince Green]

I see where your coming from, however the 13% pay rise isn't real, it's an increase in basic wages but is taken away by the changes in unsocial hours payment. It certainly makes a nice sound bite for hunt, but not a true reflection of take home pay.

The profitable parts of the NHS Is already being privatised, cancer screening in Staffordshire is private, out of hours GP services in some areas are now private companies. Urgent care centres and mi or injuries units are already privatised in some areas. It's already happening!

GPs have been 'private' for about twenty years. That's not been a problem. The NHS cant be all things to all people and why should they be when they do some things so inefficiently and at such a cost?

 

The business model for all businesses is outsourcing in this modern age, why not the NHS? This great doomsday scenario called privatisation is a good thing in my opinion. Anything to make it leaner and fitter and (dare I say) more efficient.

 

With an aging demographic and so many new, but usually very expensive, drugs and treatments the NHS is just a beached whale at the moment. Something has to change

[BrowningB525]

GPs have been 'private' for about twenty years. That's not been a problem. The NHS cant be all things to all people and why should they be when they do some things so inefficiently and at such a cost?

 

The business model for all businesses is outsourcing in this modern age, why not the NHS? This great doomsday scenario called privatisation is a good thing in my opinion. Anything to make it leaner and fitter and (dare I say) more efficient.

 

With an aging demographic and so many new, but usually very expensive, drugs and treatments the NHS is just a beached whale at the moment. Something has to change

I'd say gps being private is a problem. The current situation is hardly good value for the tax payer.

[Vince Green]

But who mops up the non profitable work? We are paying the private companies similar rates to what the NHS are paid, but they cherry pick the profitable work. Leaving the rest for the NHS. The NHS did everything for that price.

That's another one of these socialist red herrings that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. "The private companies will cherry pick all the profitable work" you often hear that said and it does sound plausible. Until you think about it.

 

The NHS will be in the driving seat, they will put the contracts out for tender, they specify the terms and they pay. What's there to cherry pick?

 

If the NHS cant get a better deal than doing it in house there is something wrong (and there may well be because the NHS's ability to issue contracts is appalling but that's something to be addressed, not an excuse for not doing it)

Edited September 3, 2016 by Vince Green

[BRYAN3]

The NHS may well be in the driving seat but,who dictates the terms. Is it friends of wealthy Tory MPs and donors lining their pockets.

I am always suspicious.

I go for an operation next week,if it go's ahead. I have been instructed to wash with Octenisan(spelling) for five days prior.

Who owns Octenisan and who made that ruling. Do Dave and his chums own the company? Do the NHS managers get a free holiday or some other bribe? Are other products available to do the same job.

[Yellow Bear]

The NHS may well be in the driving seat but,who dictates the terms. Is it friends of MPs and donors lining their pockets.

I am always suspicious.

I go for an operation next week,if it go's ahead. I have been instructed to wash with Octenisan(spelling) for five days prior.

Who owns Octenisan and who made that ruling. Do Dave and his chums own the company? Do the NHS managers get a free holiday or some other bribe? Are other products available to do the same job.

There I have corrected it for you - and would point out that the unions are just as bad in putting their own requirements first.

[Vince Green]

They have now backed down on the first strike, officially because of concerns about patient safety, unofficially because support from within had collapsed.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

The NHS may well be in the driving seat but,who dictates the terms. Is it friends of wealthy Tory MPs and donors lining their pockets.

I am always suspicious.

I go for an operation next week,if it go's ahead. I have been instructed to wash with Octenisan(spelling) for five days prior.

Who owns Octenisan and who made that ruling. Do Dave and his chums own the company? Do the NHS managers get a free holiday or some other bribe? Are other products available to do the same job.

 

Surely that would have been a question for your doctor!

 

If you really feel that badly about using what is recommended, go without, personally I seek medical advice from professionals and follow it, much the same as I seek motor vehicle mechanical advice from professionals.

 

Your choice.................................................

[bostonmick]

Maybe the doctors should be offered the same hours and pay as the politicians who are telling everyone what a great deal this is being offered to doctors.after all you don't need to spend years in university training and come out with massive debt to be an mp.the next move in the pipe is for student nurses to fund their own training no bursary.

[7daysinaweek]

hi mick student nurse will be funding there own training from 2017, bursaries now scrapped.

[scutt]

I don't work for the NHS my observations are from being in and around hospitals over the last year , in our area we have a new hospital (partnership built ) with all the bells and whistles looks good and very good media reports but to staff this place they draw from other hospitals (nurses turning up for work at one hospital and the told to get a taxi to the new one as they are required there) and to fill the wards they have closed many in the other hospitals (having ops in one place then only to be told that this hospital no longer has this department so your follow up op to take place at the new place then after op transferred back to original hospital for after care) the amount of ambulance miles between this hospital and others must be staggering .this to me is managing by robbing peter to pay paul is this not what hunt is doing if he wants to deliver a 7 day service with 5 days worth of staff ?? or this is the way we want it done now go out and make it happen cos it will make it look like we are making progress and justifies we the management /gov policy rightly or wrongly just my rant folks.

[Yellow Bear]

Maybe the doctors should be offered the same hours and pay as the politicians who are telling everyone what a great deal this is being offered to doctors.after all you don't need to spend years in university training and come out with massive debt to be an mp.the next move in the pipe is for student nurses to fund their own training no bursary.

No - make the politicians work the same hours as the doctors are expected to, with the same payment contract and requirements - and an overall cut in pay for doing it.

[shaun4860]

I don't work for the NHS my observations are from being in and around hospitals over the last year , in our area we have a new hospital (partnership built ) with all the bells and whistles looks good and very good media reports but to staff this place they draw from other hospitals (nurses turning up for work at one hospital and the told to get a taxi to the new one as they are required there) and to fill the wards they have closed many in the other hospitals (having ops in one place then only to be told that this hospital no longer has this department so your follow up op to take place at the new place then after op transferred back to original hospital for after care) the amount of ambulance miles between this hospital and others must be staggering .this to me is managing by robbing peter to pay paul is this not what hunt is doing if he wants to deliver a 7 day service with 5 days worth of staff ?? or this is the way we want it done now go out and make it happen cos it will make it look like we are making progress and justifies we the management /gov policy rightly or wrongly just my rant folks.

This new one is also in my area,

 

2 things that really astound me about this new Hospital,

 

1, They spent however many hundreds of thousands of pounds on a Heli -Pad to service this place, baring in mind it's a critical care centre, Only to be told AFTER construction that they can't use it as it's in the flight path for Newcastle International Airport, Would love to have been at the planning meeting when that came to light

 

2, More importantly it has NO Pharmacy, Again, it's a critical care centre, any medications or dressings they need in a hurry have to be Taxied in from North Tyneside General, found this out whilst my sister was in waiting to have dressings changed and then told this info by the nurse

 

You really couldn't make it up

 

[Lloyd90]

This new one is also in my area,

 

2 things that really astound me about this new Hospital,

 

1, They spent however many hundreds of thousands of pounds on a Heli -Pad to service this place, baring in mind it's a critical care centre, Only to be told AFTER construction that they can't use it as it's in the flight path for Newcastle International Airport, Would love to have been at the planning meeting when that came to light

 

2, More importantly it has NO Pharmacy, Again, it's a critical care centre, any medications or dressings they need in a hurry have to be Taxied in from North Tyneside General, found this out whilst my sister was in waiting to have dressings changed and then told this info by the nurse

 

You really couldn't make it up

 

That's the thing see, who is ACCOUNTABLE for these massive mess ups ?