shoot and be safe Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 Sadly I have to agree, although a report to the police has to be investigated, especially if there is more than one person reporting. It will leave a gray Mark on his file which will come up on his next renewal. Then again it might not show up on his record but it's humbling to think it might and cause him (the keeper) a little extra inconvenience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 I'm shocked that such a dirty deed should happen. I hope you recover your money. In the meantime buyers need to beware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Don't forget the chap is unwell. At this time of year we should be thinking good will to all men. Edited December 7, 2016 by B25Modelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 The email states a few reasons as to why its gone wrong for the bloke, makes it tricky to know exactly what has happened. But If he has been running for over 7 years then I doubt he has purposely thought its going south so Take money and run. To keep the business running he would have to take deposits etc. I believe You are not legally allowed to run a company when its insolvent.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and be safe Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Don't forget the chap is unwell. At this time of year we should be thinking good will to all men.Yes he says in his statement that he is unwell, but that doesn't give him the right to take monies of unsuspecting victims. He was/isn't thinking good will towards men when he has no intention to refund any or part of the monies laid out for the services he was offering. It doesn't matter if he has been running the shoot for 20 days or 20 years, he has taken people's money and can't deliver what he was offering. The only chance to get any monies back is legal action. In fairness to the shoot, at least they have told you about the situation and you didn't get to find out when you turned up to shoot. It still leaves a sickening feeling though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) I am afraid to say if you do not use safe payment methods i.e. Credit Card, Paypal etc, you are open to all sorts of problems with any purchase be it large or small amounts. In reality cash, cheque and ET are all no go these days. This said I have just made an ET payment to someone I do not know, never met, are 150 miles away, no contact details other than through the internet sale site. Sometimes you gotta stick yer neck out. Edited December 7, 2016 by B25Modelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 There will be more to this than meets the eye. Anyone who takes a lease of land from a landowner, whether private or Forestry Commission, should have been made aware of any likely felling operations well in advance of the shooting season. If this was not the case in this instance I suggest that the relationship between the owner and the Lessee had already broken down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) A lesson for us all here maybe....ALWAYS...pay at least a deposit by credit card. Edited December 7, 2016 by bruno22rf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba_the_greek Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) With 2,000 acres and 30,000 birds down that the shoot has always boasted i still struggle to understand how it can suddenly just all stop. There must be parts of the shoot that can be shot. There must be the Game keepers 2nd in command that could take over due to Owners ill health. For sure i will be alot more cautious when it comes to booking any future game days. However with game shooting so traditional and based very much on trust i cant see many options for payment methods or the mentality changing too much. Asking a shoot Owner for his Paypal details if he doesn't even know how to use a mobile phone or has limited knowledge on how to work the internet, might be a struggle. It has always been the case that alot of shoots need capital way up front in order to make the season even happen. Being able to pay on the day in full or getting away with a small deposit is not that common. This shoot in question was VAT registered, not sure if that gives it any credibility or ability to seek any kind of action for better chances of seeking some sort of refund/compensation. Edited December 7, 2016 by zorba_the_greek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 You can be VAT registered as an individual and it makes no difference really. It seems odd he says he's filing for bankruptcy, that's a major step that would ruin him personally and seems made up to put you off pursuing it. The debts can't be that massive surely? He'd lose his bank accounts and mortgage for a start. To run up the kind of debts for that to be an option he must have known about it failing for years. Get to the small claims court quick - you can do it online or just grab a sheet at your local court. The syndicate I'm on leases Forestry Commission land and it's up for renewal next year - I hope it doesn't go the same way as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 With 2,000 acres and 30,000 birds down that the shoot has always boasted i still struggle to understand how it can suddenly just all stop. There must be parts of the shoot that can be shot. There must be the Game keepers 2nd in command that could take over due to Owners ill health. For sure i will be alot more cautious when it comes to booking any future game days. However with game shooting so traditional and based very much on trust i cant see many options for payment methods or the mentality changing too much. Asking a shoot Owner for his Paypal details if he doesn't even know how to use a mobile phone or has limited knowledge on how to work the internet, might be a struggle. It has always been the case that alot of shoots need capital way up front in order to make the season even happen. Being able to pay on the day in full or getting away with a small deposit is not that common. This shoot in question was VAT registered, not sure if that gives it any credibility or ability to seek any kind of action for better chances of seeking some sort of refund/compensation. HM Gov will have the first call then on any money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 HM Gov will have the first call then on any money. It depends if there's any tax/VAT outstanding. If VAT returns are up to date there might not be much they are owed, if anything. Impossible to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 A few things. Are there no forum members that are in the shoots immediate vicinity that might be able to find out when the score is or know any of the shoot personnel that could be contacted? >> Is it not feasible to get in the car and go down to the shoot to find out the truth? Do mature shoot woods get chopped down overnight in the middle of the season? Have they actually been cut down? Surely if the shoot had sporting rights then the shoot should be able to claim damages. If this bloke took money for something that he knew wasn't going to exist then surely this is fraud. Lastly would it be possible to get you money back from your house insurance? Most insurances cover all sorts of things that wouldn't come to mind such as buying faulty goods and it might be worth taking a claim to get your money back somehow. Without being nosy it depends on how much money you paid as to whether it is worth pursuing it >> BUT you have suffered a loss of enjoyment and stress, inconvenience in booking and or not having any shooting or having to find an alternative. I'm not legal but I'm sure someone will advise you on whether it is a total loss but it is a downer. haven't you got any link with anyone else who was going on the shoot or pegs on guns ect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) If this IS the shoot, don't you think the vendor would have placed a NOTE or taken it down. You sure it's not Guns on Pegs that have done a runner with your dosh and the shoot is still running. Who did you book with ? Edited December 7, 2016 by B25Modelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 By that info ,he hadn`t filled approx 50% of his syndicate places ,so there`s a cash flow problen straight away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 If this IS the shoot, don't you think the vendor would have placed a NOTE or taken it down. You sure it's not Guns on Pegs that have done a runner with your dosh and the shoot is still running. Who did you book with ? The chaps who runnguns on pegs aren't short of a couple of quid so running off with a few hundred would probably just fill their Range Rover up a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 How much have you lost if is couple hundred you will just have to right it of but if its a couple of grand then i would be looking at small claims court Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba_the_greek Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Just to be clear, my day was NOT booked via Guns on Pegs. I booked direct with the shoot Owner, as i have done twice before over the course of 6 years. I simply approached GOP to ask if they had any info on the matter as i remember seeing the shoot in the past advertised through them also. It seems GOP were advised about 24hrs before i was by one of their clients that had been told that his game day (scheduled for this coming Friday) would not going happen and the shoot was now closed. Regarding money paid for the peg, it was just over £700. Have no idea why the shoot Owners has not bothered to remove the website which is still live. Think its taking the ****. I am trying to get hold of a friend of a friend that shot there regulatory to see if he could shed any light. So far i have not been successful in getting hold of him. Edited December 7, 2016 by zorba_the_greek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 That's not small money so worth a small claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba_the_greek Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 That's not small money so worth a small claim. Absolutely. I will try with small claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 You can't get blood out of a stone and if the bloke has lost everything then going through a small claims court is just throwing more money into a pit. 700 quid is enough. Surely someone on here must know what the score is. Someone must either have shot there recently or beats there. Again if it were me and I didn't have event fail insurance to cover the loss I would be looking at my house insurance policy. Most have a legal help and advice line to assist you but in all of these things they will want to have more than a 51% chance of recovery to take the case to court. So you might be able to make a claim against your insurance for non service and take the hit of a raised premium next year but that would be a small amount. Again I would get in the car and get down there and find out what is going on,on the ground. It ain't that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I would get in the car and get down there and find out what is going on,on the ground. It ain't that far. If it's not a silly distance this would be my option just to see if it has been destroyed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I look forward to an update and hopefully a favourable outcome for the O.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymondley Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 If you google the shoot address it brings up a recent (2015) planning application for an underground pipeline. May explain the tree felling/disturbance. Whilst none of us know all the facts, I can't help thinking this will be more a case of bad management than a desire to defraud. Unfortunate as it is that the op has lost money, this is what cancellation insurance is for. This litigious attitude does not sit well with me. It certainly wont encourage keepers on small shoots if they risk being sued into bankruptcy should things go belly up. I think the op needs to get down there and get the facts from the horses mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 If the person running the shoot had written out, setting out all the relevant dates when he found out the shoot was being disrupted, when it last ran, the dates he took the last bookings, the financial status at that point etc. etc. I might be more forgiving. The letter gives no real information other than forget your money or trying to recover any. As for going to see him, just what do people expect, but more of the same. The OP might be able to see disruptive work, but a quick glance will hardly show that all birds have left. I fear it will merely add to the frustration, but am happy to be wrong. The legal route sits well with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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