Nicola Sturgeon Referendum News

[Flashman]

Much of the animosity directed at the SNP - not Scotland - is that we did all this a couple of years ago, the timing is meant to derail Brexit and finally, the tail doesn't wag the dog.

[AULD YIN]

That petition is going up fast another hundred while I read it.

Now thats one the english/welsh/irish CAN vote on

[Piebob]

You still don't get it.

 

Scotland is not an EU member the UK is. If Scotland left the UK they would also be leaving the EU, that is what was said, the only way to remain in the EU was to remain in the UK, I don't see a promise there at all just a statement of fact.

 

As for not continuing reading, I didn't see the point when FACT NO 1 was complete rubbish.

 

Once again just hearing what is wanted to be heard.

Don't be so condescending.

 

What you need to bear in mind is that, in the run up to IndyRef there were many, many televised and radio broadcast head-to-heads debating the issues. Some of these would have aired across the UK, but others were only broadcast in Scotland. As a bit of an undecided voter I watched, listened and read intently to try and make some decision based on solid data. What you also need to bear in mind is that both the Better Together and the Pro-Indy camps both talked of being in the EU as being a good thing. The SNP were adamant that Scotland would be allowed into the EU, as they would negotiate the way in during the independence process, and the Better Together counter argument was that the only way to stay in Europe was to vote No (to Indepedence). Have a look here for the verbatim quote from the leader of the Scottish Conservatives at the time. https://stv.tv/news/politics/1359352-dossier-of-no-campaign-broken-promises-published-by-snp/

 

I watched that debate - did you ?

 

Did you watch this only-broadcast-in-Scotland debate? http://www.dw.com/en/yes-scotland-versus-better-together-in-tv-debate/a-17833586

 

Don't answer - I already know.

[islandgun]

Much of the animosity directed at the SNP - not Scotland - is that we did all this a couple of years ago, the timing is meant to derail Brexit and finally, the tail doesn't wag the dog.

 

So whats the tail and whats the dog

[Newbie to this]

Don't be so condescending.

 

What you need to bear in mind is that, in the run up to IndyRef there were many, many televised and radio broadcast head-to-heads debating the issues. Some of these would have aired across the UK, but others were only broadcast in Scotland. As a bit of an undecided voter I watched, listened and read intently to try and make some decision based on solid data. What you also need to bear in mind is that both the Better Together and the Pro-Indy camps both talked of being in the EU as being a good thing. The SNP were adamant that Scotland would be allowed into the EU, as they would negotiate the way in during the independence process, and the Better Together counter argument was that the only way to stay in Europe was to vote No (to Indepedence). Have a look here for the verbatim quote from the leader of the Scottish Conservatives at the time. https://stv.tv/news/politics/1359352-dossier-of-no-campaign-broken-promises-published-by-snp/

 

I watched that debate - did you ?

 

Did you watch this only-broadcast-in-Scotland debate? http://www.dw.com/en/yes-scotland-versus-better-together-in-tv-debate/a-17833586

 

Don't answer - I already know.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Flashman]

 

So whats the tail and whats the dog

Is that the best you can do? You're desperate to find insult in the face of common sense.

 

Converts make the worst zealots.

[islandgun]

Is that the best you can do? You're desperate to find insult in the face of common sense.

 

Converts make the worst zealots.

 

like i said earlier, "trolls about" the only thing I'm zealous about is truth and i dont like sneaky people who hide behind words, and i'm certainly no convert to the snp, I really cant be bothered to listen to any more of this err... stuff!

[LeadWasp]

Saddler - "& the injustice of non-Scots owning bits of Scotland covered by the Scottish BBC" I bet they didn't cover the injustice of non-Scots voting over Scottish Independence. But hey, the Nats just pick a chose what gives someone a right and what makes someone a Scot. Nationalism is vile and does nothing more than metastasize.

 

 

So whats the tail and whats the dog

 

The 'tail' is a political party, representing a segment of the voting population of Scotland that is smaller in size than say West Yorkshire, having the conceit to try to hold the rest of the Union to account over what they claim is an unfair anti-democratic process. Talk about hypocritical.

 

If Sturgeon wants to roll Scotland back about 400 years I have start for her - the Sedition Act of 1661/1708.

[Flashman]

 

like i said earlier, "trolls about" the only thing I'm zealous about is truth and i dont like sneaky people who hide behind words, and i'm certainly no convert to the snp, I really cant be bothered to listen to any more of this err... stuff!

 

Storming off in a blob strop is the perfect exit.

[islandgun]

Saddler - "& the injustice of non-Scots owning bits of Scotland covered by the Scottish BBC" I bet they didn't cover the injustice of non-Scots voting over Scottish Independence. But hey, the Nats just pick a chose what gives someone a right and what makes someone a Scot. Nationalism is vile and does nothing more than metastasize.

 

 

The 'tail' is a political party, representing a segment of the voting population of Scotland that is smaller in size than say West Yorkshire, having the conceit to try to hold the rest of the Union to account over what they claim is an unfair anti-democratic process. Talk about hypocritical.

 

If Sturgeon wants to roll Scotland back about 400 years I have start for her - the Sedition Act of 1661/1708.

ah thanks for that.. and there was me thinking the gentleman meant the tail was Scotland and the dog was England, apologies to all ..

 

Storming off in a blob strop is the perfect exit.

 

you would know best..

[islandgun]

for the record (or what ever,) I hate people bad mouthing Scotland, I also hate people bad mouthing England, both deserve contempt.. I will leave you to your ponderings

[wandringstar]

I am not whining, I don't even care, its just a forum where people say any old thing like down the pub, if Scotland want to go, which I don't think they actually do, then just go, all I know for sure is, the snp are just hard left activists who are really not the people to be looking to for leadership.

 

None of you jocks will answer my question though, I will ask it again,

 

Why did Scotland feel the need to buddy up with England in the first place 300 years ago, and what has happened in he last 30 years or so that things are so dreadful that you would like to be an independent country like you were 300 years ago?

 

This question applies to pro-independence scots.

 

from the Sassenach, wandringstar. lol.

[scolopax]

I am very worried that any border fence would impede the spread of the Peebleshire Sika south into England.

 

On that basis alone we should send a couple of gunboats up the Firth Of Forth and shell the bejesus out of the pretendy Parliament before all this independence twaddle gets out of hand.

[panoma1]

Perhaps the whole U.K. Should have a referendum............on repealing the devolution legislation?

[saddler]

Saddler - "& the injustice of non-Scots owning bits of Scotland covered by the Scottish BBC" I bet they didn't cover the injustice of non-Scots voting over Scottish Independence. But hey, the Nats just pick a chose what gives someone a right and what makes someone a Scot. Nationalism is vile and does nothing more than metastasize.

....wot, like the recent immigrants from non-European shores?

Anyone that lived here got a vote.

 

No mention of the "Scots" spokespeople, of now foreign passports of convenience (for tax reasons, etc.) rolled out as sound-bite merchants for the SNP cause.

Will these chaps be made to renounce foreign citizenship, and return to a domicile in Scotland, post-Independence?

 

Nope?

They do more harm than good...

Given rules about non-residents making political donations, a similar rule should exist to make such "soundbite peddlars" wind their necks in. They cannot have it both ways....live here & get involved, or stay in your foreign shagpad & keep yer gob closed

[LeadWasp]

I meant more in the sense...or rather what I had in mind is this ironic example.

 

I have aquaintances from the south, who are not Scots or of Scottish descent, who have taken jobs with a government science body with the word "British" in the title (largely because there are no private sectors jobs for them only public sector ones because they do obscure things that will never make any money for anyone) yet have voted 'Yes' before. I find it perverse.

 

I know they are only there for the job and will go back to other parts of the UK when they're done. Yet they get to meddle. Now all of a sudden I start to sound like a Nationalist and this is why the SNP's antics are such a ******* mindbend. I don't think there is any way to make the eligibility to vote fair so we just shouldn't go there. It's a filthy nasty business.

 

I guess anything with Alan Cumming in it is off your DVD list? - he was so good as Lord Rochester but **** as Boris.

Edited March 15, 2017 by LeadWasp

[Gordon R]

EU membership only guaranteed with a No vote” in the run up to IndyRef. That sound pretty much much like a promise to me.

 

 

He probably wasn't sincere, but he was honest. EU membership guaranteed if Scotland remained in UK, as long as UK were in the EU.

 

If Scotland left the UK, they left the EU automatically and wouldn't get back in. Minimum is 4 years - having a better financial position than they have now and accepting the Euro. That is if Spain don't block them - which they will do.

 

Realistically, it was Scotland's only hope of remaining in the EU, albeit for a shorter period than either Sturgeon or Cameron believed.

 

Cameron - a man of his word - almost accidentally.

[oowee]

Perhaps the whole U.K. Should have a referendum............on repealing the devolution legislation?

I think we should have one on English devolution, separating English and British government.

[harkom]

Wandring Star at 99 has hit the nail on the head. He has put it within the correct context of this day and age. Have Sturgeon, Slippery and co. "forgotten" the number of major financial institutions which suggested relocation south of the "border" in the event of separation? What has changed since then??

[poontang]

 

Have you heard of a thing called Trident? And the billions it would take to relocate it from Scotland?

 

If the Scots voted for independence Trident would have to be relocated south of the border irrespective of cost.

Why would the UK risk their nuclear assets in a foreign country?

Unless of course Sturgeon and co are happy to have a foreign military base with nukes on Scottish territory?

[saddler]

Unless of course Sturgeon and co are happy to have a foreign military base with nukes on Scottish territory?

...they may not have a choice if Putin fancies setting up near a distillery with some nice fishing on the doorstep.

[scotslad]

Wandring Star at 99 has hit the nail on the head. He has put it within the correct context of this day and age. Have Sturgeon, Slippery and co. "forgotten" the number of major financial institutions which suggested relocation south of the "border" in the event of separation? What has changed since then??

 

The reason some/many financial instutions talked about this was the whole prospect of being out of the euro zone and any unkowns that could hold. As it stands thats now happening anyway. They're could still be the chance of them moving to europe but that wouldn't suit many newspapers agendas for a good scare story

So even if scotland did become independent they're wouldn't be an awfull lot of point in them moving.

[scotslad]

I am not whining, I don't even care, its just a forum where people say any old thing like down the pub, if Scotland want to go, which I don't think they actually do, then just go, all I know for sure is, the snp are just hard left activists who are really not the people to be looking to for leadership.

 

None of you jocks will answer my question though, I will ask it again,

 

Why did Scotland feel the need to buddy up with England in the first place 300 years ago, and what has happened in he last 30 years or so that things are so dreadful that you would like to be an independent country like you were 300 years ago?

 

This question applies to pro-independence scots.

 

from the Sassenach, wandringstar. lol.

 

So wot ur saying is because the fuedal rich land owning/ruling classes signed a treaty 300 years ago its not allowed to be contested by the mere common folk who now live there and they should just suck it and get on with it.

 

Yet it is perfectly acceptable for UK to have a refernendum on something it actually held a refernendum to go into only 40 yrs ago.

So something voted by the people onlly 40yrs ago u don't have to put up with it but something the rich toffs/ruling classes (probably involving quite a bit of land/money changing hands which nowadays would be called corruption) signed up for 300 years ago should just be sucked up and taken on the chin.

 

 

Also seems to be quite a few build the wall/ screw them out of every penny type posters if we have the cheek to go on our own

.I do find it rather strnge considering many will have voted for brexit and i'm sure are hoping the final deal will involve not too much changing really (still go ur cheap hols to spain and hgv's can travel freely to europe) yet when it cme to the jocks they want to shaft us.

Just seems a bit hypcritcal really. How would u feel if the french were wanting to bloc the tunnel in and close all the ferry crossing to Eng? Or impose very high taxes on them? I bet u'd be raging at the french but many on here would happily do it to the scots?

 

 

A few of scots papers had results of a poll in 72% of under 25's in favour of leaving now, and around 46-50% total, when the last indyref started in 2012 it was only around 26% in favour of leaving. Pretty much as high a % as they've ever had, and thats with nhs/schools, polis all in a complete shambles. Imagine wot the % would be like if snp were any good at there job

I'm also pretty sure the uder 20's actually mainly voted to stay in union in last ref, widely thought to be because of EU/travel etc, so if now EU's gone and there 72% in favour that is a massive swing.

Only 25% of over 65's want to leave thou, but that is probably also be the demographic with the most english ex pats in.

As they die its almost invetiable independeance WILL come like it or not.

 

To me the really scary thing is salmond got a 45% vote with no real economics policy, absolutely no idea on either EU or pound, and figures for oil revinues that walt disney couldn't imagine.

Yet he almost got half the population to vote for it.

Out of the 55%, how many folk do u think just bottled it big time and went for the easy option? I bet quite a few, i know a few who regretted it at the time.

How many believe in independence but are scared ****less by the snp? Bet it could be quite a few again.

Even how many english voted NO? And i know not every english person voted no but chances are a lot would have.

 

It only needed a 5% swing, was only 400k votes not a massive marign really, with the prospect of decades of english tory rule it may well be enough to swing the vote

[scotslad]

 

If the Scots voted for independence Trident would have to be relocated south of the border irrespective of cost.

Why would the UK risk their nuclear assets in a foreign country?

Unless of course Sturgeon and co are happy to have a foreign military base with nukes on Scottish territory?

 

Is it not against some law (anti profilation?) for 1 country to store nukes for another country? Think they must be allowed to visit thou as i think the americains come in there

If the had to move them dunno how'd u'd cope, most of ur deep water harbours will be busy ports so every tom **** and harry would know wot subs are where

 

Must admit i'd be more than happy to keep the base open for all the jobs it creates but Snp have always been dead against nukes and nuclear power

[LeadWasp]

I bet even the most fervent sandal wearing anti-nuclear protester would love a bit of cobalt 60 when they need a gamma knife. Not going to get that from wind power.

 

It's funny to note that the Scottish Government is now probably the single largest owner of intellectual property concerning marine energy - certainly wave power. Rather than mining this rich seam to turn it into gold, marine energy in Scotland is festering.

 

There are virtually the same number of X berths in the rest of the UK compared to Scotland and 17 Z berths elsewhere - no problem with the subs.

Edited March 15, 2017 by LeadWasp