wandringstar Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Why not? St Patrick is an English Saint after all. He only went to Ireland because he was sent there to convert the Irish to Christianity. oh, so everybody who thought it was an irish thing, has been wrong for all these years, st patricks day was an English celebration all along, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 oh, so everybody who thought it was an irish thing, has been wrong for all these years, st patricks day was an English celebration all along, sorry. Not at all, I think its wonderful the way the Irish honour an English Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Very pleased that the PM has decided to rebuff the request, although it isn't as yet a formal request, for a referendum in 2018/19. I think her reasoning is perfectly valid, it would be unfair, if not irresponsible to have a referendum on such a critical constitutional issue whilst the Brexit process is still being undertaken. It is remarkable how polarised people can become when discussing this issue and that is part of the problem, as people start to take on an ever increasing entrenched position then the further away reason becomes. I can understand the points raised by those on both sides of this thread (the sensible points anyway), but there is a gross over simplification of some of the issues and it all becomes very one dimensional. There is also a whole lot of arrogance on display of people choosing to speak for an entire nation, i.e. the Scot's don't like it when...... or the English feel such and such. One of the major issues is populism. There are an awful lot of people who have hitched their own populist bandwagon cause to the SNP machine and that is also what happened with UKIP to a large extent. A significant amount of the underlying narrative in Scotland just now in relation to the referendum is a naive sort of socialism, more akin to Trotskyism really. If you look at things critically the SNP are not actually a socialist party, they were smart enough to capture some of the left leaning narrative and that has carried sway with the hard of thinking. Lots of the arguments that the nat's present is how Scotland would move to a fairer and more inclusive society, without the SNP having any substantive policy to demonstrate this. In fact the SNP have no genuinely redistributive policies at all, they are not socialist in the least. I'm more socialist than they are and i am a card carrying Tory. Thanks to the economic crisis in 2007/8 and the actions in Iraq & Afghanistan there is a huge backlash against politicians in general and populism has grown, this is fuelled by a lack in critical journalism, the collapse in sales for traditional print media, exponential growth and sophistry of social media and a really hefty dose of confirmation bias. All of this has contributed to the rise of the SNP and there is a large false positive in terms of their support. This is true all across the developed western world.The pendulum will swing back again and i think that when that happens the appetite for independence, aside from the fundamentalists and terminally stupid, will wain considerably. I very much hope so at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) A significant amount of the underlying narrative in Scotland just now in relation to the referendum is a naive sort of socialism, more akin to Trotskyism really. If you look at things critically the SNP are not actually a socialist party, they were smart enough to capture some of the left leaning narrative and that has carried sway with the hard of thinking. Lots of the arguments that the nat's present is how Scotland would move to a fairer and more inclusive society, without the SNP having any substantive policy to demonstrate this. In fact the SNP have no genuinely redistributive policies at all, they are not socialist in the least. This.....Most of the SNP aren't socialist at all,all they did was try on old labours clothes knowing that would be fairly popular up here.They have in the process attracted a few socialist fans who are likely to be disappointed at the end of the day. Edited March 16, 2017 by mr smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 the snp are trying to say that Teresa may is terrified of the scots voting for independence, no, she is just sick to death of hearing about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 The simple fact is this refeendum if it happens is too soon after the last BUT the last 1 was based on a lie You keep saying this - just what was the lie? Your point about remaining in the EU has been shown to be totally wide of the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Mrs May has strapped them on and said no ..... good on her ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 if brexit turns out to be massively beneficial to us all including Scotland, will the snp still want independence? it cuts both ways you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 i think we ought to go for our independance....had enough of this ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 if brexit turns out to be massively beneficial to us all including Scotland, will the snp still want independence? it cuts both ways you know. It was in the paper yesterday what a fool she's making of herself, as after finding out a lot of scots are now Euro skeptics she is saying they won't join, but have a system similar to the scandies etc, so they'll have all the benefits but none of the shortfalls! Literally just makes it up as she goes along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 It was in the paper yesterday what a fool she's making of herself, as after finding out a lot of scots are now Euro skeptics she is saying they won't join, but have a system similar to the scandies etc, so they'll have all the benefits but none of the shortfalls! Literally just makes it up as she goes along. Shortfall is .... this what happens when she trips up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 i think we ought to go for our independance....had enough of this ... I am with you there an independant England what do we need all of these hangers on for anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 I am with you there an independant England what do we need all of these hangers on for anyway Now wait for the "hangers on" to start shouting "Racist" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 I am with you there an independant England what do we need all of these hangers on for anyway I thought he was asking for an independent Norfolk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 i think we ought to go for our independance....had enough of this ... everyone has had enough. stirgeon is like a spoilt child shouting can i have can i have over and over until everyone gives in for a bit of peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 everyone has had enough. stirgeon is like a spoilt child shouting can i have can i have over and over until everyone gives in for a bit of peace I think Sturgeon is trying to divert attention away from problems at home. She knew May would say no, she was banking on it. Because now she can bleat about how unfair it all is and not talk about what a bad job the SNP are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Tribalism is a bad thing just look at the third world countries always in conflict with the ordinary people suffering. If the lass gets her way what will she want next anyone have the answer .Hope Scotland stays in the uk mainly cos most of my permissions are over the border and half the syndicate are canny scots . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 I think Sturgeon is trying to divert attention away from problems at home. She knew May would say no, she was banking on it. Because now she can bleat about how unfair it all is and not talk about what a bad job the SNP are doing. that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Hope Scotland stays in UK as in general I like Scots although I cannot say I like their(or any other UK)politicians.All this posturing & juggling for political advantage/attention/power gets tiresome to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 I thought he was asking for an independent Norfolk. im a fully paid up member of the NLF...(norfolk liberation front)...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Hope Scotland stays in UK as in general I like Scots although I cannot say I like their(or any other UK)politicians.All this posturing & juggling for political advantage/attention/power gets tiresome to watch.+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 After Teresa may turned down a referendum, She says she is 'determined', 'will consider her options' if the 'will of the Scottish parliament is not respected' Why doesn't she go away and concentrate on the important everyday issues in scotland, a normal reasonable person knows when its over, if 90 per cent of scots agreed with her, then she would have more credibility, but its done and dusted, get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 After Teresa may turned down a referendum, She says she is 'determined', 'will consider her options' if the 'will of the Scottish parliament is not respected' Why doesn't she go away and concentrate on the important everyday issues in scotland, a normal reasonable person knows when its over, if 90 per cent of scots agreed with her, then she would have more credibility, but its done and dusted, get over it. She had her brief moment of success when she managed to steal the spotlight from the Article 50 Bill being passed. However the last couple of days have not been good for her. The possibility of another referendum being turned down by May. Polls revealing heightened levels of eurosceptiscism in Scotland, and the online petition to stop her calling a referendum piling up signatures from every constituency in Scotland and reaching debate level in almost record time. Now she's had to U-turn on joining the EU as a direct member faster than the Tories U-turned on the NI increase for the self-employed. You could almost feel sorry for her . . . . . . ah ok, you got me, the last statement was definitely a lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) After Teresa may turned down a referendum, She says she is 'determined', 'will consider her options' if the 'will of the Scottish parliament is not respected' Why doesn't she go away and concentrate on the important everyday issues in scotland, a normal reasonable person knows when its over, if 90 per cent of scots agreed with her, then she would have more credibility, but its done and dusted, get over it. Scottish Parliament??? I thought it was the Scottish Assembly. Like a sort of parish council only covering more area. These 'grievence' parties are never good at running the day to day stuff. because they are not really interested. They are 100% political but haven't a clue when it comes to running schools hospitals councils etc. UKIP would be exactly the same. Its hard for me to say it but for heaven sake bring back the Scottish Labour Party because the SNP are failing badly and they know it. So what do they do? they start an argument, WELL REALLY? do they think we are that stupid? Yes I think they do Edited March 16, 2017 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AULD YIN Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 I am with you there an independant England what do we need all of these hangers on for anyway Oh yes, please go for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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