Where are they?

[pinfireman]

I have been decoying pigeons since 1976, and had some really good years, but recently numbers bagged have been falling......after a quiet winter I looked forwards to the Spring drillings. Still very quiet. 100 acres of beans drilled, and not a pigeon in 6 days! Something seriously wrong....so I contacted a shooting pal who was a service engineer for a multi-national agricultural machinery manufacturer....he is on very good terms with farmers around the country, and he has spoken to some of them,as well as asking fellow service engineers to do the same.....it,s not like the RSPB Big Bird Day, but it,s good enough for me.....pigeon numbers are DOWN, and seem to have been falling for the last couple of years! Whilst there are still some "hotspots" across the country, overall things don,t look too good! If this really is the case, what has caused the drop in numbers? Any ideas?

[ditchman]

we still have the same numbers of pigeons around here.................but they are very skitish.....one bang and off they go for the rest of the day......the most i can expect for an outing is five or six birds......i find putting a flapper on a flightline is the only way i can pull them in........

 

8 or 9 years ago i could go out 3 or 4 times a week and expect 15-20 birds.......as i said the numbers are still here but very wary................i dont think the numbers are down ...i still think they are on the up.....but their habits are changing....maybe something to do with the weather....crops (type of)....

[motty]

I don't believe numbers are down.

 

I have had maybe 800 acres of beans drilled that I can shoot, but I haven't seen much pigeon activity on most of it. The pigeons are around. I have seen them mostly on grassland over the past week or two.

[lakeside1000]

A friend and I have spent the last few weeks looking for the flocks that used to be very visible around Great Yarmouth, particularly out on the marshes where large areas of rape and peas are grown every year, they are not here, where they are is a mystery ,

We have seen small groups of maybe 20 birds ,particularly around allotments, horse paddocks etc, but out over the crops almost nothing.

If we do get under a small number they are very nervous and will fly over observing decoys but not coming in to feed , I know its the breeding season and every second bird will be sitting eggs, but we would expect to see a lot more than there are at the moment.

We have never found dead birds on the ground and no other evidence of sick or dying birds.

There is a belief that the large flocks spend the winter 'moving' from area to area in search of easy feeding but if this were the case surely once in a while we would see some of them,

In my younger years through the late 70's and early 80's I lived near Melton Mobray and shot pigeon over large areas on the Notts Leicester borders, the sky would be blue with birds, more recently I have spent time shooting around Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire and although there were large numbers there was no guarantee that you would get birds in to the decoys, it was pot luck whether you found them or not.

I spent yesterday guarding a large pea field against an invisible foe, only 4 pigeons passed by, not one interested or in range, sport was only on the corvids that regularly visit the field but sadly they are not my target of choice, only necessity as the farm owner expects some results,

Ever the optimist I turn out twice a week without fail to set out my decoys drink my coffee and contemplate what might be, My missus thinks I'm a bit sad but I cant help myself.hey ho !!

[Wilksy II]

I've certainly noticed there hasn't been many write ups of pigeon decoying days apart from the regular contributors that is, I've seen big numbers earlier this year in a few different places but as said they have spread out, they're not social nesters like sparrows and corvids it seems so that would go some way to explaining how scattered they are.

I've certainly noticed there hasn't been many write ups of pigeon decoying days apart from the regular contributors that is, I've seen big numbers earlier this year in a few different places but as said they have spread out, they're not social nesters like sparrows and corvids it seems so that would go some way to explaining how scattered they are.

[decoy1979]

I personally don't feel that there has been a dramatic reduction in pigeon numbers, I do however feel that with climate change and changes to farming methods and crops grown that it may be more difficult to achieve a decent bag.

For example back in the 70s & 80s did you see young immature birds throughout the year? I don't believe so.

What you may have seen was more severe winters with a reduction in available food leading to concentrating pigeon numbers and allowing for better shooting opportunities?

 

Farming methods these days are so intensive and technology so advanced that the volume of seed/feed left on the surface is next to nothing, why therefore would pigeons be interested in blank fields, this is where you'll see Mr Rook merrily following the row pecking out seed from below the surface. Combine that with alternative food sources available from buds to clover/grassland, beech mast, nuts, garden bird feeders etc and Mr Pigeon perhaps doesn't have to work as hard to find food stuff anymore?

 

That's my opinion anyway.

[pinfireman]

OK guys, I,ve read your observations....I,m determined to get to the bottom of this.....I,ve contacted several people I,ve shot pigeons with in the past, across the country from Aberdeenshire to the Midlands...Plus a couple of old-time gamekeepers I know, and they have given me their thoughts on this, which I will rationalise over the next few days, plus what you have contributed..Then I,ll post again....

[matone]

Hugely increased predation of nests by corvids and Grey Squirrels would seem most likely to me.Also the main winter roosting woods in my area no longer seem to hold many.They do however hold a fair population of Buzzards which have only really taken hold in the last 10 yrs.

All these things must have an effect !

[oowee]

I personally don't feel that there has been a dramatic reduction in pigeon numbers, I do however feel that with climate change and changes to farming methods and crops grown that it may be more difficult to achieve a decent bag.

For example back in the 70s & 80s did you see young immature birds throughout the year? I don't believe so.

What you may have seen was more severe winters with a reduction in available food leading to concentrating pigeon numbers and allowing for better shooting opportunities?

 

Farming methods these days are so intensive and technology so advanced that the volume of seed/feed left on the surface is next to nothing, why therefore would pigeons be interested in blank fields, this is where you'll see Mr Rook merrily following the row pecking out seed from below the surface. Combine that with alternative food sources available from buds to clover/grassland, beech mast, nuts, garden bird feeders etc and Mr Pigeon perhaps doesn't have to work as hard to find food stuff anymore?

 

That's my opinion anyway.

This plus anti bird coatings on seeds.

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, a friend checked out and it seems due to the weather they are over in france by the 1000s

Edited April 20, 2017 by oldypigeonpopper

[aga man]

To my mind pigeon numbers are increasing and in most parts of the country young pigeons are shot all year round indicating continuous breeding.

Having said that this is definitely a regional thing and some counties have very few pigeons.

Pigeon habits have certainly changed to mind and they are much more a town and city bird now, and that is where most of them are i reckon.

They will still come out to feed in the countryside when the crops they want are there.

Edited April 20, 2017 by aga man

[HIDENSEEK]

I shot a smallish field of drilled barley today with a friend after seeing numbers build over the last couple of days. Plenty of seed on top (untreated, at least not coloured) but the birds didn't return as expected. We don't get big bags on this farm but I was hoping to get a good do after a long lean spell. total bag 32 pigeon & 11 black 'uns. The pigeon that came to the field were not keen on decoying despite dead birds only, on the flight line, and a floater. No whirly and even the flapper was turned off to see if that was making them twitchy.Hopefully it was just one of those days when they didn't want to play. I don't know where the pigeon are, but there's not many round here.Probably have to eat my words tomorrow (I hope!)

[Wilksy II]

I recently looked into pigeon numbers for a basc young shots day at humberside shooting ground and and figures that came back (estimated only) were 15-17million currently as apossed to 11-13 million in 2009, consecutive mild winters since 2010 and oil seed rape have given the wood pigeon perfect conditions to thrive on such conditions one pair can knock out between three and six broods (two eggs a nest) a year. there's no way pigeons are in decline, maybe regionally as agaman says due to farming numbers are varying, but that's all.

[bunny_blaster]

To my mind pigeon numbers are increasing and in most parts of the country young pigeons are shot all year round indicating continuous breeding.

Having said that this is definitely a regional thing and some counties have very few pigeons.

Pigeon habits have certainly changed to mind and they are much more a town and city bird now, and that is where most of them are i reckon.

They will still come out to feed in the countryside when the crops they want are there.

What he said

[anser2]

Pigeon numbers are well down in my area of N Norfolk. 10 years ago I would expect at least 20-30 pigeons most days decoying , with a dozen 100+ birds days every year and some of them would be big 100s. I used to shoot between 2000 and 3000 every year. Then we had a severe winter around 2011-12 and the numbers dropped sharply and have not recovered. Over the last few years 20 has been a red letter day. There is no change in the crops grown over the 4000 acers of farm I shoot over. Lots of rape, wheat, barley and sugar beet, plus a fair bit of grass with clover. Abundant woods with the biggest one around 1000 acres. Few birds seem to be worrying about rape over the last few years and its been some years since I had a decent bag over rape. I spend 3 hours this morning checking 4 fresh sown fields of peas and just a single pigeon was seen on the peas and about 30 flew high over heading elsewhere. Never even bothered to get the gun out. The huge flocks of a decade ago are a thing of the past , though there seems to be plenty of pigeons a dozen miles away on the coast , but inland they are becoming scarce. Numbers get higher in the summer and surveys show pigeons to be a common breeding species in the big wood ( an oak wood ) with around a couple of hundred breeding pairs, but fledging success is poor with no gamekeeper corvids abound , once harvest is over many birds vanish. There are times when reasonable flocks can appear in winter , but within a week or two they move on not to be replaced. Shooting pressure on the farms is light ( I am the sole gun out weekdays , though a couple of the farm workers will shoot sometimes weekends ) and unless asked to by the farmer I usually give the pigeons a break from shooting between April and harvest to give them a chance to breed.

 

Population Data from the BTO shows the UK population has declined in recent years. The area graphs show that they are increasing as a breeding species only in Scotland and North West England , stable in four areas and declining in 7 areas. Seemes to be doing well in the north , but the decline increases the further south east .

 

Woodpigeon - England

Download image (GIF, 17.31 KB)

Woodpigeon - London

Download image (GIF, 18.15 KB)

Woodpigeon - North East England

Download image (GIF, 19.06 KB)

Woodpigeon - Northern Ireland

Download image (GIF, 17.42 KB)

Woodpigeon - Scotland

Download image (GIF, 18.72 KB)

Woodpigeon - East Midlands

Download image (GIF, 19.17 KB)

Woodpigeon - East England

Download image (GIF, 18.37 KB)

Woodpigeon - South East England

Download image (GIF, 18.83 KB)

Woodpigeon - UK

Download image (GIF, 17.66 KB)

Woodpigeon - West Midlands

Download image (GIF, 17.61 KB)

Woodpigeon - Wales

Download image (GIF, 17.4 KB)

Woodpigeon- Yorkshire and Humber

Download image (GIF, 17.98 KB)

Woodpigeon - South West England

Download image (GIF, 17.7 KB)

Woodpigeon - North West England

Edited April 20, 2017 by anser2

[motty]

 

Pigeon numbers are well down in my area of N Norfolk. 10 years ago I would expect at least 20-30 pigeons most days decoying , with a dozen 100+ birds days every year and some of them would be big 100s. I used to shoot between 2000 and 3000 every year. Then we had a severe winter around 2011-12 and the numbers dropped sharply and have not recovered. Over the last few years 20 has been a red letter day. There is no change in the crops grown over the 4000 acers of farm I shoot over. Lots of rape, wheat, barley and sugar beet, plus a fair bit of grass with clover. Abundant woods with the biggest one around 1000 acres. Few birds seem to be worrying about rape over the last few years and its been some years since I had a decent bag over rape. I spend 3 hours this morning checking 4 fresh sown fields of peas and just a single pigeon was seen on the peas and about 30 flew high over heading elsewhere. Never even bothered to get the gun out. The huge flocks of a decade ago are a thing of the past , though there seems to be plenty of pigeons a dozen miles away on the coast , but inland they are becoming scarce. Numbers get higher in the summer and surveys show pigeons to be a common breeding species in the big wood ( an oak wood ) with around a couple of hundred breeding pairs, but fledging success is poor with no gamekeeper corvids abound , once harvest is over many birds vanish. There are times when reasonable flocks can appear in winter , but within a week or two they move on not to be replaced. Shooting pressure on the farms is light ( I am the sole gun out weekdays , though a couple of the farm workers will shoot sometimes weekends ) and unless asked to by the farmer I usually give the pigeons a break from shooting between April and harvest to give them a chance to breed.

 

Population Data from the BTO shows the UK population has declined in recent years. The area graphs show that they are increasing as a breeding species only in Scotland and North West England , stable in four areas and declining in 7 areas. Seemes to be doing well in the north , but the decline increases the further south east .

 

Woodpigeon - England

Download image (GIF, 17.31 KB)

Woodpigeon - London

Download image (GIF, 18.15 KB)

Woodpigeon - North East England

Download image (GIF, 19.06 KB)

Woodpigeon - Northern Ireland

Download image (GIF, 17.42 KB)

Woodpigeon - Scotland

Download image (GIF, 18.72 KB)

Woodpigeon - East Midlands

Download image (GIF, 19.17 KB)

Woodpigeon - East England

Download image (GIF, 18.37 KB)

Woodpigeon - South East England

Download image (GIF, 18.83 KB)

Woodpigeon - UK

Download image (GIF, 17.66 KB)

Woodpigeon - West Midlands

Download image (GIF, 17.61 KB)

Woodpigeon - Wales

Download image (GIF, 17.4 KB)

Woodpigeon- Yorkshire and Humber

Download image (GIF, 17.98 KB)

Woodpigeon - South West England

Download image (GIF, 17.7 KB)

Woodpigeon - North West England

 

I'm not sure I would trust those figures too much. As you have said, pigeons move a hell of a lot, meaning a good count is very difficult.

I'm not sure exactly what part of the county you shoot, but I see good numbers all over North Norfolk when I drive around at work.

Ps, I doubt the harsh (ish) winter a few years back accounted for many dead pigeons. Far too much available food to sustain them.

[matone]

The graph for our area shows a steady decline in population since 2005 which does correlate with my thoughts on the situation .

[Mightymariner]

I am not sure how anyone, even the BTO, could do any sort of survey with a level of accuracy on the numbers of woodpigeon - especially given the locations they are found. Short answer is no one really knows what the numbers are.

[pigeon controller]

What he said

+1

[pinfireman]

Hugely increased predation of nests by corvids and Grey Squirrels would seem most likely to me.Also the main winter roosting woods in my area no longer seem to hold many.They do however hold a fair population of Buzzards which have only really taken hold in the last 10 yrs.

All these things must have an effect !

A Buzzard has no chance in taking a pigeon on the wing, I know, as years ago I had a couple of buzzards, lazy *******, only wanted carrion!

[pinfireman]

Hugely increased predation of nests by corvids and Grey Squirrels would seem most likely to me.Also the main winter roosting woods in my area no longer seem to hold many.They do however hold a fair population of Buzzards which have only really taken hold in the last 10 yrs.

All these things must have an effect !

Apart from the buzzard observation, you are partly correct, but the cause of the depletion in numbers seen (and shot) is ba much bigger picture than that!

[pinfireman]

To my mind pigeon numbers are increasing and in most parts of the country young pigeons are shot all year round indicating continuous breeding.

Having said that this is definitely a regional thing and some counties have very few pigeons.

Pigeon habits have certainly changed to mind and they are much more a town and city bird now, and that is where most of them are i reckon.

They will still come out to feed in the countryside when the crops they want are there.

My sources are farmers, shooters, gamekeepers, and even the RSPB (Ugh!)....but numbers are falling, they are definitely NOT on the increase. As I said before, there are still hotspots across the Midlands and South East, but that is all.

I recently looked into pigeon numbers for a basc young shots day at humberside shooting ground and and figures that came back (estimated only) were 15-17million currently as apossed to 11-13 million in 2009, consecutive mild winters since 2010 and oil seed rape have given the wood pigeon perfect conditions to thrive on such conditions one pair can knock out between three and six broods (two eggs a nest) a year. there's no way pigeons are in decline, maybe regionally as agaman says due to farming numbers are varying, but that's all.

And your numbers came from.....where? Not Defra, not RSPB,

[pinfireman]

 

Pigeon numbers are well down in my area of N Norfolk. 10 years ago I would expect at least 20-30 pigeons most days decoying , with a dozen 100+ birds days every year and some of them would be big 100s. I used to shoot between 2000 and 3000 every year. Then we had a severe winter around 2011-12 and the numbers dropped sharply and have not recovered. Over the last few years 20 has been a red letter day. There is no change in the crops grown over the 4000 acers of farm I shoot over. Lots of rape, wheat, barley and sugar beet, plus a fair bit of grass with clover. Abundant woods with the biggest one around 1000 acres. Few birds seem to be worrying about rape over the last few years and its been some years since I had a decent bag over rape. I spend 3 hours this morning checking 4 fresh sown fields of peas and just a single pigeon was seen on the peas and about 30 flew high over heading elsewhere. Never even bothered to get the gun out. The huge flocks of a decade ago are a thing of the past , though there seems to be plenty of pigeons a dozen miles away on the coast , but inland they are becoming scarce. Numbers get higher in the summer and surveys show pigeons to be a common breeding species in the big wood ( an oak wood ) with around a couple of hundred breeding pairs, but fledging success is poor with no gamekeeper corvids abound , once harvest is over many birds vanish. There are times when reasonable flocks can appear in winter , but within a week or two they move on not to be replaced. Shooting pressure on the farms is light ( I am the sole gun out weekdays , though a couple of the farm workers will shoot sometimes weekends ) and unless asked to by the farmer I usually give the pigeons a break from shooting between April and harvest to give them a chance to breed.

 

Population Data from the BTO shows the UK population has declined in recent years. The area graphs show that they are increasing as a breeding species only in Scotland and North West England , stable in four areas and declining in 7 areas. Seemes to be doing well in the north , but the decline increases the further south east .

 

Woodpigeon - England

Download image (GIF, 17.31 KB)

Woodpigeon - London

Download image (GIF, 18.15 KB)

Woodpigeon - North East England

Download image (GIF, 19.06 KB)

Woodpigeon - Northern Ireland

Download image (GIF, 17.42 KB)

Woodpigeon - Scotland

Download image (GIF, 18.72 KB)

Woodpigeon - East Midlands

Download image (GIF, 19.17 KB)

Woodpigeon - East England

Download image (GIF, 18.37 KB)

Woodpigeon - South East England

Download image (GIF, 18.83 KB)

Woodpigeon - UK

Download image (GIF, 17.66 KB)

Woodpigeon - West Midlands

Download image (GIF, 17.61 KB)

Woodpigeon - Wales

Download image (GIF, 17.4 KB)

Woodpigeon- Yorkshire and Humber

Download image (GIF, 17.98 KB)

Woodpigeon - South West England

Download image (GIF, 17.7 KB)

Woodpigeon - North West England

 

Good post! Numbers ARE down....

I'm not sure I would trust those figures too much. As you have said, pigeons move a hell of a lot, meaning a good count is very difficult.

I'm not sure exactly what part of the county you shoot, but I see good numbers all over North Norfolk when I drive around at work.

Ps, I doubt the harsh (ish) winter a few years back accounted for many dead pigeons. Far too much available food to sustain them.

Seeing some, and decoying and succesfully shooting good bags are 2 entirely different things...

[Wilksy II]

My sources are farmers, shooters, gamekeepers, and even the RSPB (Ugh!)....but numbers are falling, they are definitely NOT on the increase. As I said before, there are still hotspots across the Midlands and South East, but that is all.

 

And your numbers came from.....where? Not Defra, not RSPB,

Basc! It was a basc young shots day but As i mentioned it's all estimates no one can know for sure, you think there in decline I think there on the increase I'll leave it at that.

[old'un]

I don't think pigeon numbers are falling or on the increase, but there is certainly a lot more movement of pigeons northwards with successive mild winters.