evolution380 Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) Hi There, As some may have seen I'm completely new to this and looking at getting and Over & Under but also I wish to get myself a nice Semi Auto. I'm having lessons so I will be running through this in theory and practice to ensure I'm completely safe when shooting a Semi at a range which I'd like to do from time to time. I do however wish to familiarise myself first as much as possible with the rights and wrongs of Semi-Auto use on a clay ground. My teacher touched on this during my first lesson however the main emphasis was on over and unders which is what I wanted to focus on with my first lesson. At some point I'd like a lesson on Auto Rifles to fully familiarise myself also specifically with clearing jams safely etc. so I'd like to try and get ahead on most of the other safety issues. Could anybody add any give feedback to my understanding thus far? I'm going to write a step by step of how I'd approach using a semi-auto at a range could anyone please advise if I'm overlooking anything or making any fatal errors: * Park up, grab all my gear along with the sleeved semi-auto shotgun from my car with the muzzle pointing to the floor at all times. * Make my way from the car to the range and on to the layout with all relevant safety gear on. * Now on range opening the sleeve, check the safety is on and that the mag is clear whilst still in the sleeve muzzle down. * Now load in 2 cartridges (max unless specific comp that allows 3+) whilst holding the gun vertically facing towards the kill zone. * Shoot the clays and keep the gun towards the kill zone / vertical and reload or place a safety flag in if moving stations etc. * Safety flag in the chamber at all times when gun is being moved from station to station (safety on also ready for reloading) * Sleeved at all times when moving between layouts and the clay grounds / flagged when moving between stations. Is my general understanding thus far ok? I fully understand safety with an O/U following my lesson, I just want to be able to apply this in the right way to a semi-Auto. The main aspect I'd be looking to cover in a lesson if I have the right understanding above would be the following: - safely clearing misfires and jams - best way to check the barrel for any blockages. Am I overthinking this? Because with an O/U when broken its very clear if the barrel is blocked in anyway. I can't imagine it's easy to check this on a semi-auto trying to look through the chamber down the barrel? Edited June 10, 2017 by evolution380 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Hi There, As some may have seen I'm completely new to this and looking at getting and Over & Under but also I wish to get myself a nice Semi Auto. I'm having lessons so I will be running through this in theory and practice to ensure I'm completely safe when shooting a Semi at a range which I'd like to do from time to time. I do however wish to familiarise myself first as much as possible with the rights and wrongs of Semi-Auto use on a clay ground. My teacher touched on this during my first lesson however the main emphasis was on over and unders which is what I wanted to focus on with my first lesson. At some point I'd like a lesson on Auto Rifles to fully familiarise myself also specifically with clearing jams safely etc. so I'd like to try and get ahead on most of the other safety issues. Could anybody add any give feedback to my understanding thus far? I'm going to write a step by step of how I'd approach using a semi-auto at a range could anyone please advise if I'm overlooking anything or making any fatal errors: * Park up, grab all my gear along with the sleeved semi-auto shotgun from my car with the muzzle pointing to the floor at all times. * Make my way from the car to the range and on to the layout with all relevant safety gear on. * Now on range opening the sleeve, check the safety is on and that the mag is clear whilst still in the sleeve muzzle down. * Now load in 2 cartridges (max unless specific comp that allows 3+) whilst holding the gun vertically facing towards the kill zone. * Shoot the clays and keep the gun towards the kill zone / vertical and reload or place a safety flag in if moving stations etc. * Safety flag in the chamber at all times when gun is being moved from station to station (safety on also ready for reloading) * Sleeved at all times when moving between layouts and the clay grounds / flagged when moving between stations. You might want to take it out of the slip inbetween those two actions Sorry, couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evolution380 Posted June 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 You might want to take it out of the slip inbetween those two actions Sorry, couldn't resist. Hahaha!! I meant to try and emphasise that I'd opened the Slip and was checking whilst still in place not to get muck up the barrel. Touch'e Sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 On a more serious note . . . I think you pretty much have it there. When I open my slip I'm looking to see that the bolt is open, if it was closed for any reason then I'd be pulling it back before taking the gun from the slip. When you remove the gun from the slip do it facing away from any bystanders and keep your finger away from the trigger. I pull mine out leaving it facing down and then quickly bring it to a vertical position before entering the cage. Once I'm in the cage or on the stand the gun points forward and is held more or less horizontally, pointing slightly down. One cartridge into the chamber, flip the gun over, chamber the cartridge fully and then put the second cartridge into the magazine. After shooting my targets I'll leave the cage with the gun pointing barrel up. Pick up the slip and slide the gun away, again not pointing at anyone. On the rare occasions I'm not using a slip then between stands I carry the gun held vertically, usually with a finger slipped through the trigger guard, in front of the trigger. I must confess I don't own a breech flag but as long as the bolt is open and the gun isn't pointed at anyone then I've never known anyone complain. In the event of a jam, keep the gun pointed forward towards the target area, roll it slightly over so you can see that it is a jam and then just pull the bolt back to eject the jammed cartridge. Every now and again one gets stuck in an awkward way but again just pull the bolt back and extract it with your fingers. If you're unsure and you're shooting with more experienced shots just ask them to give you a hand. I assure you they'd much rather delay a moment to help you rather than see an accident. If you get a light strike or dud shell, ie one that doesn't go off after you pressed the trigger. Just as with an o/u keep the gun pointing forwards and give it a little time just in case there is a delayed reaction. Then treat as you would a jam but don't leave the failed cartridge on the floor. You can either try it again in the gun or ask where you can dispose of it. Some shooters carry a small knife and cut the cartridge in half behind the wad to empty out the powder but that's probably not recomended for you atm. Most of the blockages I've seen have come from home loads, I can't ever recall having one with a commercial cartridge. If for any reason you do think the barrel is obstructed then clear any other cartridges from the gun. Then blow down the barrels, through the breech, you should be able to tell then if the barrel is clear. If you believe it's blocked then the safest option is to exit the cage as safely as possible and take the gun apart then you can look down the barrel from the safe end. If there is a blockage then you need to find a rod or similar to remove it. Again, if in doubt just ask for help. Shooters tend to be a friendly bunch and the worst reaction you're likely to get is a bit of ribbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evolution380 Posted June 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 On a more serious note . . . I think you pretty much have it there. When I open my slip I'm looking to see that the bolt is open, if it was closed for any reason then I'd be pulling it back before taking the gun from the slip. When you remove the gun from the slip do it facing away from any bystanders and keep your finger away from the trigger. I pull mine out leaving it facing down and then quickly bring it to a vertical position before entering the cage. Once I'm in the cage or on the stand the gun points forward and is held more or less horizontally, pointing slightly down. One cartridge into the chamber, flip the gun over, chamber the cartridge fully and then put the second cartridge into the magazine. After shooting my targets I'll leave the cage with the gun pointing barrel up. Pick up the slip and slide the gun away, again not pointing at anyone. On the rare occasions I'm not using a slip then between stands I carry the gun held vertically, usually with a finger slipped through the trigger guard, in front of the trigger. I must confess I don't own a breech flag but as long as the bolt is open and the gun isn't pointed at anyone then I've never known anyone complain. In the event of a jam, keep the gun pointed forward towards the target area, roll it slightly over so you can see that it is a jam and then just pull the bolt back to eject the jammed cartridge. Every now and again one gets stuck in an awkward way but again just pull the bolt back and extract it with your fingers. If you're unsure and you're shooting with more experienced shots just ask them to give you a hand. I assure you they'd much rather delay a moment to help you rather than see an accident. If you get a light strike or dud shell, ie one that doesn't go off after you pressed the trigger. Just as with an o/u keep the gun pointing forwards and give it a little time just in case there is a delayed reaction. Then treat as you would a jam but don't leave the failed cartridge on the floor. You can either try it again in the gun or ask where you can dispose of it. Some shooters carry a small knife and cut the cartridge in half behind the wad to empty out the powder but that's probably not recomended for you atm. Most of the blockages I've seen have come from home loads, I can't ever recall having one with a commercial cartridge. If for any reason you do think the barrel is obstructed then clear any other cartridges from the gun. Then blow down the barrels, through the breech, you should be able to tell then if the barrel is clear. If you believe it's blocked then the safest option is to exit the cage as safely as possible and take the gun apart then you can look down the barrel from the safe end. If there is a blockage then you need to find a rod or similar to remove it. Again, if in doubt just ask for help. Shooters tend to be a friendly bunch and the worst reaction you're likely to get is a bit of ribbing. Thank you very much for that reply, very helpful indeed! I've watched a few videos now on clearing jams, just need to put it into practice and gain the experience! Very informative and useful though. Thanks a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) Just out of curiosity, if your just starting why have you decided you want to use a semi auto? Edited June 11, 2017 by Wingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) If your going to wander round a clay ground i would strongly suggest a Breach Flag or Plug usually nice and brightly coloured so everyone knows the Guns safe, I pop mine back in between stands in addition to carrying it upright. It also serves to identify the Gun is empty when drawing from your slip. It annoys me when i see shooters carrying a semi pointing forward towards others especially with no visable safety showing. I use one of these. Or a plug if you prefer. Edited June 11, 2017 by Snoozer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Just use a safety flag or pop it in the slip when walking about, otherwise apart from clearing jams(never had one myself) it's the same as using an ou or sbs(less the dirty looks from a lot of the older double barrel brigade) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evolution380 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Just out of curiosity, if your just starting why have you decided you want to use a semi auto? More theoretical for now as my first gun will be an O/U but I'll be getting a semi-auto not long after and may use it at the range time to time. Just want to learn these things sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 I think muzzle awareness is one of the most important things to remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 I think muzzle awareness is one of the most important things to remember. That Sir is spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 I think muzzle awareness is one of the most important things to remember. Yes, this. It matters not what type of gun it is one must always ensure the dangerous end never ever points at anything you do not intend to kill. I have had over unders pointed at me whilst unslipping there is no need for it gun should be broken before being removed from slip . I have gad side by side pointed at me by very experienced game shooter (experience "can" evolve into complacency) no need for it he was Sa on shooting stick waiting for drive to start gun loaded and resting across his lap. I have had numerous autos pointed at my man tackle whilst being carried around a ground horizontally, generally by oiks. No need for it bang it in a slip its the ony safe and propper way to transport an auto imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 On the rare occasion I go clay shooting with a semi, I keep it over my shoulder on a sling with a nice bright breech plug. The safety guy down there is happy with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esca Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Place the safety flag in the breech when you take it out of the cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 I never use a flag or anything else, keep the bolt back and slip it between stands or carry it with the muzzle pointing straight up. See people fumbling around trying to get the flag out or the breach plug thing they jammed in. Some of these early flags have came off leaving the plastic plug in the breach. An open bolt people can see if there stood on a stand when you i slip your gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esca Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 The reason for the breach flag was 2 fold. 1) to show the breach is empty 2) Although the breech can be open, you do not know if there is a cartridge in the mag. Therfore the breech flag prevents the bolt being accidentaly shut and loading one up the spout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) Personally I'd go with this chamber flag by Tapco. It can't be inserted if there is anything in the guns chamber, which the Saf-T-Plug type can and won't destroy your extractor if the bolt accidentally closes on it like the aluminum Napier plugs can. You can normally tell if you're at a semi-autophobic club/ground and if I go to one when my gun is out of the slip I carry it like a dirty nappy so its obvious my hands are no where near the trigger or chamber. As above, if you don't point the gun at anyone they have no (logical) reason to be bothered by it. Edited June 12, 2017 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Personally I use a clip in plug, as I have sling fitted it is on my shoulder pointing up with the plug clearly visible to everyone. When I am in a stand the gun is removed from my shoulder and pointed away from everyone before the plug is removed and the gun is loaded for use. When I have finished the round the plug is installed before the sling is shoulderd and then I leave the stand. I have been doing it this way for year's an no-one has ever commented to me about safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shalfordninja33 Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) I think muzzle awareness is one of the most important things to remember. This. If I use my Auto at a clay ground its always in the slip, bolt back, until it my turn to shoot, it then goes straight back into the slip once I've shot the stand. Its the same for my O/U. With lumps of broken clay flying about I want to avoid the risk of damage wherever possible. Edited June 12, 2017 by shalfordninja33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 I use the same Tapco plugs but mine have about 12-18" of horribly bright 2" wide orange ribbon hanging off them. I still get the odd complaint though, usually from someone in the next field who's been put off by the sun bouncing off them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 If I may add, if EVER there is a need to put your fingers inside the open breech on an auto in order to extract a cartridge, please ensure you are holding the bolt back with your other hand. I once saw a Remmie bolt close on the users finger as he was trying to push a cartridge into the chamber, he was unable to bite his nails for a few weeks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 If I may add, if EVER there is a need to put your fingers inside the open breech on an auto in order to extract a cartridge, please ensure you are holding the bolt back with your other hand. I once saw a Remmie bolt close on the users finger as he was trying to push a cartridge into the chamber, he was unable to bite his nails for a few weeks ! Oooh Mother i bet that smarted lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 On the rare occasion I go clay shooting with a semi, I keep it over my shoulder on a sling with a nice bright breech plug. The safety guy down there is happy with that. Almost always have a sling on my sem-autos, even the most miserable shooter couldn't complain about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) I never use a flag or anything else, keep the bolt back and slip it between stands or carry it with the muzzle pointing straight up. I'm with motty & figgy. I'm saying so to emphasize / extend the point they've both made. Carry your semi pointing straight up in the sky, with the muzzle above head height. No-one is going to get killed if it goes off unexpectedly when you're holding it like that. (We assume any planes passing overhead will be so high as to be unaffected. ) Conversely, please don't point it at the ground. Any time you have to move the gun through the horizontal plane (the other kind!), you have a potential danger situation. We obviously hope no-one is standing in front of the cage, but that doesn't mean no-one will be standing behind a hedge, somewhere to the side, 150 yards down-range. This obviously shouldn't happen and it certainly shouldn't ever be the case that you can stand in a cage and fire directly towards where other people are, but I have seen badly-arranged courses on an "L" shape where the setting of a low target meant that people ended up shooting from one side of the "L" shape over to the other, raining shot on others trying to shoot further on. You can't account for bad course design, but if you never point your muzzles horizontally, except to shoot a clay, it won't be your responsibility if someone gets peppered with #7½'s... Edited June 14, 2017 by neutron619 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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