Brexit - Merged Threads

[ordnance]

 

 

31 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Cannon - I genuinely think you need medical help. You ramble on and on, without making a point.

neutron619 - whilst responding to the all seeing, all wise Cannon, I omitted to say that your post was excellent. Forgive the oversight.

 

+1 

[Cannon]

16 minutes ago, ordnance said:

 

 

 

+1 

Your +1 contrubution adds so much weight to the thread

[das]

35 minutes ago, Cannon said:

Do you need me to spell it out for you? Or are you incapable of reading between the lines? Answers on a postcard

If it all troubles you, our arrogance, surely you must know where to go, across the Channel to the superstate of Europe?

[Cannon]

3 minutes ago, das said:

If it all troubles you, our arrogance, surely you must know where to go, across the Channel to the superstate of Europe?

Why? I'm happy living in Ireland as a European citizen

[das]

1 minute ago, Cannon said:

Why? I'm happy living in Ireland as a European citizen

And I'm not bleating and I am an Englishman living in England not a part of a mindless superstate.

Ireland has certainly had it's skinful of cash from the EU in the past so why the bickering but tide will surely turn when the UK billions dry up.

[ordnance]

43 minutes ago, Cannon said:

Your +1 contrubution adds so much weight to the thread

I am happy to debate the issue but your earlier obvious anti brit posts show i would be wasting my breath trying to debate the subject with you.  

[Gordon R]

Cannon does not seek debate, he merely rambles.

He has so much bitterness, so much arrogance and so little intelligence.

[Cannon]

4 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Cannon does not seek debate, he merely rambles.

He has so much bitterness, so much arrogance and so little intelligence.

Listen to the pot calling the kettle black. As for having a debate with ordnance, it wouldn't be a debate. I would be faced with an onslaught of articles copied and pasted from google, with abolutely no reasoned presentation of complimentary opinion. Your inability to understand my posts quite clearly demonstrates your own lack of intelligence.

[Gordon R]

Cannon - freebie - I think you mean "complementary" - thus amply demonstrating your intelligence.

Quote

It's unbelievable that such backwards hate filled bigots can have a say in the future of these Islands.

Possibly the most ill-judged post I have ever seen.

My inability to understand your illogical, rambling posts is an accurate observation. I can see little reasoning, little intelligence, little judgement - just vitriolic bitterness. I honestly find you a bit sad.

[ordnance]

10 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Cannon - freebie - I think you mean "complementary" - thus amply demonstrating your intelligence.

Possibly the most ill-judged post I have ever seen.

My inability to understand your illogical, rambling posts is an accurate observation. I can see little reasoning, little intelligence, little judgement - just vitriolic bitterness. I honestly find you a bit sad.

+ 1

[anser2]

11 hours ago, neutron619 said:

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

 

But this does not look deeply enough at the issues at stake.

MEPs and the European parliament have no legislative initiative. They can amend legislation but only subject to commission approval. They can delay, but not block legislation.

The European Parliament is emphatically NOT equivalent to the House of Commons, where your local MP can, using the Private Member's Bill mechanism, or an Early Day Motion introduce legislation entirely independently of the government of the day, have it debated and - theoretically - passed by a majority of the house. Commons and Lords amendments can be introduced by anyone and Government legislation is subject to them if they are passed - unlike the European Parliament where they simply reword the bill and introduce it again having bribed off the "difficult" member or simply ignored it.

The EU may not (yet) be a dictatorship, but all of its institutions are structured to allow for the possibility of it behaving like one. Don't even get me started on the ECJ, which having only a few years of case law, can effectively "invent" law in its rulings in areas not covered by previous judgements, which are then immediately and retrospectively applied across all member states. It's almost the perfect example of what they call judicial activism and it occurs because the role of the judges is not strictly limited to interpreting existing law as it is in this country (and as it should be, in my view). Effectively, they can advance the cause of the EU via "useful" rulings where member states themselves will not permit (i.e. veto) legislation.

So it's a lie but only just: in their behaviour and their disdain for things like the rule of law and its equal application to all citizens (when was the last time the Germans were fined for running an "illegal" budget surplus at the expense of the southern European states?), seperation of powers, respect for the rights of the individual and the freedom of peoples to exercise a sovereign will - so alarmingly (to them) exercised by those who voted leave - is isn't far from being one.

You'll have guessed that I'm a "leaver" of course. Let me tell you why: it wasn't "immigration", or really "sovereignty" though those are important. I still believe it will be possible to make a good hash of Brexit, if it's grasped as an opportunity with both hands, though that seems not be happening. Rather, it was about the character of the institution and the people in charge.

It's the character of people who are happy to be told "no" in French and Dutch referenda, then ignore the results and orderthem to vote again until they "get it right".

It's the character of people who are happy to stand on a platform saying "we must do more to help alleviate poverty in Africa", all the while charging a 40% tariff on imports of grain from Africa - by which those African poor could fairly work themselves out of starvation and penury and maintain their self-respect. This is the Corn Laws, European-wide, for the 21st century.

It's the character of people who are content to beggar an entire generation of Greek, Italian and Spanish youth to avoid their collossally misguided currency experiment collapsing, with the loss of money for the rich North European countries who - having taken advantage of the South during the good times - are allowed to profit from their misery during the bad. So much for solidarité!

It's the character of people who begin their response to the painful choice of a nation to leave their association with the question "how can we punish them to make sure no-one else follows?" all the while wearing crocodile smiles and promising to negotiate our surrender departure in good faith.

It's the character of people who knew, right at the start, with Monnet and De Gaulle, that they were trying to create a European superstate but, rather than trying to make the case for that honestly and openly and persuading people, began their "project" using subterfuge and continued it for nearly 50 years before admitting the end goal. (If it took them that long to admit that truth openly, what do you think they're currently planning but not admitting for 50 years' time?)

It was pointless arguing whether we'd be economically better off or not during the referendum campaign - no-one was ever going to know. We won't know for another 50 years probably. So after that, all you have left is "who are we associating ourselves with?" Do you really think that a bunch of folk with that outlook on life are the best people to associate with or subject ourselves to, when the vast majority of British people - leaver and remainer - seem to value all of those things like freedom, democracy, equality under the law that we'll only really miss when they are gone?

As for the House of Lords - well, no, we don't vote for them and isn't it marvellous? Or rather, wasn't it? You see, before they abolished all of the hereditary peers, you had a system which created a debating chamber entirely by accident of birth. That is, you got in whatever your politics was. Yes, it was a bit inequitable and meant that there were a rather large number of rich people in there, which gave it a particular perspective (though they do tend to have more time to think about things, not having to slave to survive), but the point was it wasn't nearly as party political as it is now.

The old system meant that the government couldn't rely on controvertial legislation getting passed simply because enough of their peers would turn up to vote on it. They had to persuade and to justify. After Blair kicked out the hereditary peers they had to make up the numbers somehow - so what did they do? Yup - you guessed it - they appointed a whole load of ex-Labour party members to fill up the spaces. Result? A whole load of bad legislation, poorly scrutinized and driven through by "party" appointees who, if they wanted to disagree or vote it down, were probably reminded that their names appeared in the Chief Whip's little black book for some filthy misdemeanour which would be made public if they didn't do what the government wanted...

So yeah. I rather liked the idea that people were appointed by accident of birth, whatever their politics. It would have been fairer to generate a list of random mobile telephone numbers and ask their owners to sit in the house - but an unappointed Lords is a lot better than a party political, easily knobbled Lords in my book, any day of the week. Think about it.

All you does not alter the fact that the EU is not a dictatorsp

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by anser2

[Cannon]

33 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Cannon - freebie - I think you mean "complementary" - thus amply demonstrating your intelligence.

Possibly the most ill-judged post I have ever seen.

My inability to understand your illogical, rambling posts is an accurate observation. I can see little reasoning, little intelligence, little judgement - just vitriolic bitterness. I honestly find you a bit sad.

Isn't it great having your own personal spell checker. Thanks for that. Take that little perceived victory and run with it. Aren't you just fantastic for being so petty. As for illogical posts, they are considerably more logical than anything that you have spouted in the last few years on this forum. It's also worth mentioning that your posts have attracted the attention of more than just myself.

[anser2]

32 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Cannon - freebie - I think you mean "complementary" - thus amply demonstrating your intelligence.

Possibly the most ill-judged post I have ever seen.

My inability to understand your illogical, rambling posts is an accurate observation. I can see little reasoning, little intelligence, little judgement - just vitriolic bitterness. I honestly find you a bit sad.

Cannon what you say is just so true. The big problem too many quitters who want to leave the EU have closed minds and nothing anyone could ever say would even change them. I dislike the EU , but like most people in the UK do not want to see my living standards fall any more that they have done since Brexit. Brexit has already shown to be the worst thing to have happened to the UK in many years and those who to think it will all be better after a cup of tea , just get a grip and stop living in cloud cuckoo land.

[JRDS]

The EU is actually totally corrupt never mind the shape of our Veg and the power of our vacuum cleaners motor amongst a host of other things. The EU Parliament is simply full of hordes of spongers who talk **** and legislate ******** for a living and add absolutely no value to anything for anyone whilst costing us billions.

If Parliament supported Brexit as they should and gave it an end date then certainty things would be a whole lot better, it is not Brexit causing issues it is Parliament kicking the can down the road ad infinitum and most large media outlets Sky / BBC and Bankers / the CBI all of whom have vested interests. 

Don't blame Brexit blame the scum running Parliament and those still running Project Fear at ever higher levels 18 months after the referendum. 

If being a little Englander means not wanting your Green Belt building over because we have a huge immigation issue in terms of unskilled immigration in turn spiking house prices and lowering wages and upping social security spending and crime then call me one.  The only jobs round here are nearly all minimum wage entirely due to the huge influx of migrants the vast majority of whom claim benefits of some description.  Crime is through the roof and the Police are none existant.

Burnley and its surrounding areas are beautiful and historic in part Pendle Hill etc but mainly now a **** hole due to uncontrolled immigration from everywhere and for that I blame not the Immigrants but successive UK Governments selling out the indigenous population.  

Part of Brexit was to try and do anything to start turning that tide, it was the only chance we have had to have a say.

Don't blame people for voting Brexit or brand them racist blame Blair, Brown, Cameron, May et al. all have sold us down the river and the corrupt EU for forcing the very same upon us.

We simply dont want it in any shape or form and to really rub salt in the wound at our own expense financially and socially.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by JRDS

[neutron619]

11 hours ago, anser2 said:

All you [said] does not alter the fact that the EU is not a dictators[hi]p

 

I think we're in agreement as I indicated in my post.

Oh and whilst we're here, another place which isn't a dictatorship is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, where the well known Kim Jong-un was elected with 100% of the vote in 2016. Of course, if the institutions of that (democratic) state are arranged so as to give him untrammeled wealth, riches and power and the ability to dispose arbitrarily of citizens he finds "inconvenient" that isn't his fault is it? I mean, they voted for him, didn't they? That's democracy in action, right there.

[Rewulf]

11 hours ago, anser2 said:

Cannon what you say is just so true. 

What that all Brits are arrogant ?
So you are arrogant ?

11 hours ago, anser2 said:

 I dislike the EU , but like most people in the UK do not want to see my living standards fall any more that they have done since Brexit.

You dislike the EU? Really , could have fooled me..
What are you talking about ? Brexit hasnt even happened yet, and if living standards are falling, its more to do with the pounds value than anything else.
And, if you want to blame the pounds value on Brexit, it had peaked and had to fall at some point, ably helped by people with narrow minds like you and other remainers causing low confidence in our nation.
So Sir, if you dont want to see your retirement go down the pan, I would strongly recommend you get on board and support YOUR country, rather than people like Junkers superstate wet dream.
Or ship out to somewhere more inviting to your state of mind.

[TriBsa]

I despair of our current government. Where is the planning? Yesterday David Davis revealed that there are no post Brexit impact assessments. Well today it seems Phillip Hammond revealed why. There has been no cabinet discussion on what the Brexit end state will look like. So they are going into negotiations with the EU with no plan and no direction. To cap it all, Hammond today publicly stated to the Treasury Select Committee that we will pay the so called divorce bill whether we get a trade deal or not. I wouldn't trust the present cabinet to organise the proverbial **** up in a brewery.

May must go.

 

[Walker570]

On ‎30‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 00:27, oowee said:

How can our future lie in our hands in a global, gig economy? Our future is intrinsically linked with the rest of the globe. 

As a little Island nation others may not care about our success but a successful team cares about all its players. With global competition for ever scarce resources co-operation and partnership must be the way forward. 

You talk us down oowee, there are much much larger nations which don't even come up to our laces in ability, but over the last 40yrs or more we have been so negative about ourselves, the pathetic liberal approach of no one must lose, Blair and his, everyone must have a uni education etc etc.  About time we and our politicians got some balls and promoted our future in the world.   The UK has always been linked globally and done very well thank you. The attachment to the leeches in the EU has done nothing but drawn us down. Fortunately we did not join the Euro, which has destroyed Greece, Italy for starters.   I believe we are just the first to jump from the sinking ship.

 

By the way. my living standards have not altered in the last 30yrs, but there again I do not waste my hard earned cash on unnecessary items.

Some of you need to go back to the late 40s early 50s to grasp living standards.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Walker570

[Granett]

The Brexit Bulldog's doing nothing to dispel those accusations from his fellow arch-Brexiteer that he's "thick as mince" and "as lazy as a toad". 

Anyone who thinks it's unpatriotic for remainers not to have jumped onboard Brexit must have loads to say about one of the main Brexiteers having gone about his role with such indolence. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by Granett

[Newbie to this]

 

 

[12gauge82]

I don't think it's unpatriotic to not get on board with Brexit, I think it's idiotic, Brexit is happeing, any UK citizen trying to go against it now is harming their own country, by lowering confidence harming the economy and giving the EU tools to harm the UK with, driving a wedge between us all, Brexit is happening, their was a democratic vote, let' get on with it.

[Bobba]

22 hours ago, Cannon said:

Why? I'm happy living in Ireland as a European citizen

Maybe. But would you be happy in Befast in a unified Ireland?

[Granett]

43 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I don't think it's unpatriotic to not get on board with Brexit, I think it's idiotic, Brexit is happeing, any UK citizen trying to go against it now is harming their own country, by lowering confidence harming the economy and giving the EU tools to harm the UK with, driving a wedge between us all, Brexit is happening, their was a democratic vote, let' get on with it.

What was Farage's explanation for the decades he spent sabotaging uk interests? You'd be a hypocrite to accept one and not the other. 

[Newbie to this]

[das]

3 hours ago, Walker570 said:

You talk us down oowee, there are much much larger nations which don't even come up to our laces in ability, but over the last 40yrs or more we have been so negative about ourselves, the pathetic liberal approach of no one must lose, Blair and his, everyone must have a uni education etc etc.  About time we and our politicians got some balls and promoted our future in the world.   The UK has always been linked globally and done very well thank you. The attachment to the leeches in the EU has done nothing but drawn us down. Fortunately we did not join the Euro, which has destroyed Greece, Italy for starters.   I believe we are just the first to jump from the sinking ship.

 

By the way. my living standards have not altered in the last 30yrs, but there again I do not waste my hard earned cash on unnecessary items.

Some of you need to go back to the late 40s early 50s to grasp living standards.

Agree and well said.

I was about in the late 40s and 50s and these moaners who state that they don't want their living standards to drop should have been around then.
Post war austerity, rationing, outside toilets and a tin bath. We all survived and in the main we were happy and proud.
Some of the later generations are 'I want it all and I want it now'. Then get off your **** and stop moaning.