Bottom Barrel First

[FairImogen]

Earlier today I shot with a fellow who told me that I should be shooting the bottom barrel first; moving chokes if needs be.  The rational for this being that a shotgun is more ‘stable’ when fired in this manner.

I use the barrel selector depending on the bird; have never noticed such instability.

(Interestingly, there was nothing between our scores).

I would experiment, but can’t be changing chokes ad nauseam.

Does anyone think the ‘stability’ concept is valid?

[ips]

no, certainly not with light ish modern loads. I select top barrell 1/2 as first shot and bottom barrell 1/4 on driven game purely because loading top barrell on a single shot bird is easier / quicker due to gape.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Imogen the lower of the two barrels is more in line with the shoulder. It is a very old adage and really is not worth worrying about these days.

As IPS states using am O/U set to top barrel first allows quicker reloading.

Mind you with a choice between 3/4 and full, I just get on with it.

[welshwarrior]

As said above the bottom barrel is more in line therefore produces less recoil.  However if you can tell the difference you've a very sensative shoulder.  

[Hamster]

Both barrels produce the same recoil, the bottom less "flip", near impossible to tell the difference when trying to prove the point but fire top barrel first for a few weeks then switch to bottom and trust me you will immediately notice. 

[Walker570]

I could never understand the side by side system of having the first trigger masking the second. Always felt the a the front trigger should be set back and the back trigger therefore easier to locate, Which barrel do y'all shoot with a side by side. Having fixed chokes in my old Army & Navy 16 gauge I choose whichever I require, same with my 410 O/U, choke barrel on approach of a driven bird out at 40yrds and more open choke if I miss or need to take a second shot or another bird.  Cannot really tell the difference in recoil. 

[Westley]

5 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

I could never understand the side by side system of having the first trigger masking the second. Always felt the a the front trigger should be set back and the back trigger therefore easier to locate, Which barrel do y'all shoot with a side by side. Having fixed chokes in my old Army & Navy 16 gauge I choose whichever I require, same with my 410 O/U, choke barrel on approach of a driven bird out at 40yrds and more open choke if I miss or need to take a second shot or another bird.  Cannot really tell the difference in recoil. 

On ALL of my S x S's the back trigger is offset to the right (RH gun) and therefore is not 'masked'. I nearly always use the back trigger first, but NOT for the reason given by ips. I try to take my first bird well in front using the choke barrel, then the more open barrel (right) on the second bird, which, by then, would be closer. I find this works better for me as I am not a great lover of 'Game Soup'  !       

[ips]

42 minutes ago, Westley said:

On ALL of my S x S's the back trigger is offset to the right (RH gun) and therefore is not 'masked'. I nearly always use the back trigger first, but NOT for the reason given by ips. I try to take my first bird well in front using the choke barrel, then the more open barrel (right) on the second bird, which, by then, would be closer. I find this works better for me as I am not a great lover of 'Game Soup'  !       

with respect Westley I think you will find that is what said 1/2 out front 1/4 when its closer.

Edited November 7, 2017 by ips

[Westley]

6 minutes ago, ips said:

with respect Westley I think you will find that is what said 1/2 out front 1/4 when its closer.

I have a mulichoke game gun so I swapped em around from normal configuration of tighter choke in top for the reasons of easier loading

GO BACK and read it again then,  you did make reference to shooting birds with 'gapes' though  !    

[ips]

Westley, apologies I have edited one bit that was incorrect (senior moment) i did experiment with bottom barrell first with tighter choke (so wrong way around) then discovered it was easier to load top barrell so put choke back in top...i got confused but the 1/2 then 1/4 is clear my friend.

Edited November 7, 2017 by ips

[Walker570]

Yes, correct almost all double trigger sbs's have the back trigger slightly off set but still I have never understood why they are almost always choked with the left hand barrel the tightest, when as you say on driven shoots it is always advisable to take that bird out in front as early as possible within range. That would entail using the heavier choke on fixed choke guns. At least double triggers gives an instant selection as to which barrel to fire first instead of having to flick safeties side to side to make the selection.  Had a gun remarking that he had difficulty in using a double trigger gun after shooting single. I think being brought up on doubles it is easier to swop one to the other.

I suppose if your firing the fashionable 'cannon' shells controlling recoil might suggest the lower barrel first.  19grms of 7s I don't have that problem

[figgy]

If your worrying about what barrel for what choke on game your over thinking it. 

Unless you pattern your game carts to your gun and chokes it probably won’t make much difference. Mine is fixed 1/4&1/2 choke and I never think the 1/4 won’t do the job best use the back trigger. 

You could load different cart in each barrel 32g 5 for the 1/4 and 28 or 30g 6 for the 1/2 and never worry again. 

On the over and under I’ve noticed the difference in getting off the second shot if I shot top barrel first. The gun does take a bit more putting back on target. 

Edited November 7, 2017 by figgy

[wymberley]

11 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Yes, correct almost all double trigger sbs's have the back trigger slightly off set but still I have never understood why they are almost always choked with the left hand barrel the tightest, when as you say on driven shoots it is always advisable to take that bird out in front as early as possible within range. That would entail using the heavier choke on fixed choke guns. At least double triggers gives an instant selection as to which barrel to fire first instead of having to flick safeties side to side to make the selection.  Had a gun remarking that he had difficulty in using a double trigger gun after shooting single. I think being brought up on doubles it is easier to swop one to the other.

I suppose if your firing the fashionable 'cannon' shells controlling recoil might suggest the lower barrel first.  19grms of 7s I don't have that problem

 

10 hours ago, figgy said:

If your worrying about what barrel for what choke on game your over thinking it. 

Unless you pattern your game carts to your gun and chokes it probably won’t make much difference. Mine is fixed 1/4&1/2 choke and I never think the 1/4 won’t do the job best use the back trigger. 

You could load different cart in each barrel 32g 5 for the 1/4 and 28 or 30g 6 for the 1/2 and never worry again. 

On the over and under I’ve noticed the difference in getting off the second shot if I shot top barrel first. The gun does take a bit more putting back on target. 

Back in the day it was not uncommon for the right to be the choke barrel. One way round for driven and  t'other for walked up. Then, the game bored barrels were TC by Imp - later Imp by 1/2. In effect the former is the two steps up as per the latter which did make a difference if you needed to stretch a bit.

[Westward]

17 hours ago, FairImogen said:

Does anyone think the ‘stability’ concept is valid?

I certainly don't think it's valid. Whilst physics tells us that there's slightly less flip at the muzzles from the bottom barrel and there's an old shooter's tale that you can get off the second shot more quickly that way round, I've never noticed any difference with clay shells. And for game, it makes much more sense - as already mentioned - to shoot top barrel first as it's quicker to reload after a single shot.

 

[figgy]

It’s more noticeable using a light gun or light barreled gun. The angle or shape of the butt pad makes a difference too.  When I had a 682 gold e with fast burning powder clay carts it used to slap my cheek as it fired and muzzle flip was more.  Heavy guns it’s not as bad. 

[Scully]

I think the theory was as others have stated, regarding recoil. I always shoot bottom barrel first, but it’s for no other reason than that’s what I’m used to. 

[Salopian]

Initially Game shooting was always walked up over Spaniels or Pointers/ Setters so birds would flush, rise and fly away , hence open choke first , choke barrel if required second.

But makers could accommodatre any whim so it is possible to get any configuration of gun , choke barrel right or left barrel , triggers also can be fitted to fire whichever barrel you may wish.

Serious Gameshooters often use top barrell first on their improper guns .

Sadly many Lords are now dead and their Sons and heirs allow these new fangled gadgets , I think they are called 'stack barrelled'

Recoil is not an issue with Krieghoffs as invariably both barrels go off at the same time whether you want them to or not.

[Westley]

21 hours ago, ips said:

Westley, apologies I have edited one bit that was incorrect (senior moment) i did experiment with bottom barrell first with tighter choke (so wrong way around) then discovered it was easier to load top barrell so put choke back in top...i got confused but the 1/2 then 1/4 is clear my friend.

[welshwarrior]

8 hours ago, Salopian said:

Initially Game shooting was always walked up over Spaniels or Pointers/ Setters so birds would flush, rise and fly away , hence open choke first , choke barrel if required second.

But makers could accommodatre any whim so it is possible to get any configuration of gun , choke barrel right or left barrel , triggers also can be fitted to fire whichever barrel you may wish.

Serious Gameshooters often use top barrell first on their improper guns .

Sadly many Lords are now dead and their Sons and heirs allow these new fangled gadgets , I think they are called 'stack barrelled'

Recoil is not an issue with Krieghoffs as invariably both barrels go off at the same time whether you want them to or not.

But unfortunately the stack barrel or OU was around before the sbs it just lost popularity until John Moss Browning fixed the design. 

[Gordon R]

 

Quote

Recoil is not an issue with Krieghoffs as invariably both barrels go off at the same time whether you want them to or not.

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[wymberley]

10 hours ago, welshwarrior said:

But unfortunately the stack barrel or OU was around before the sbs it just lost popularity until John Moss Browning fixed the design. 

Wasn't ignition the problem?

[DanBettin]

I've come to learn that many theories/preferences in shooting that people are adamant to stick with are not worth stressing over since they make a negligible (if any) amount of difference.

That's not to say these people are wrong at all, and if it makes any difference at all to your game - why not just do it and play it safe? For this reason, I shoot bottom barrel first - just in case the recoil really does make a difference to how fast I can get onto the second. But as someone else in this thread has mentioned, you'd have to be very sensitive to changes like these to notice things like this.

[mossy835]

i all ways fire top first.

[DaveADS]

On an O/U shotgun the barrel centers are further apart at the breech than the muzzle, the gun is tuned so that the shot from both barrels will hit the same point in space at 40 yards, so shot from the lower barrel will be rising slightly out to 40 yards, while shot from the top barrel will drop slighly, this situation can be exploited by using the lower barrel for rising targets, and the top barrel for such as settling duck, since most modern guns are multichoke, the choking can be selected beforehand. 

[figgy]

DaveADS not sure that's the same for all modern over and unders.  

The last third at least on most guns looks to run parralel.