Westley Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Having read a few bits recently involving, use of the safety catch or " I found that I had left the safety on" ! I started to wonder at what stage do you push the safety catch 'OFF' ? On my clay guns, the safety is permanently OFF, except when I clean them. On my 2 S x S's and my Beretta 20 bore, they are all auto safes. My 2 auto's are manual safes, which are on, but are put to OFF if I am using them on clays. In the field my safety is always ON and only gets pushed off as I am mounting the gun to shoot. My finger is always on the outside edge of the trigger guard, only moving to the trigger after the safe has been pushed to OFF. The only time I am likely to be caught with a safety catch issue, is an auto safe on a gun being used for clays. I regularly see people having problems with the safety catch at shooting grounds and all to often hear that dreaded 'click' as the safe gets pushed off as soon as the gun is closed, on game shoots. Do we put too much reliance on the safety catch, I wonder ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Have a variety of auto & non auto safe guns ...IMHO all should be auto safe..it`s not difficult to use either. Gun handling is of FAR more importance than safety catch usage too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, matone said: Have a variety of auto & non auto safe guns ...IMHO all should be auto safe..it`s not difficult to use either. Gun handling is of FAR more importance than safety catch usage too. Yes, BUT in my experience, people put far too much faith in the safety catch to the exclusion of 'muzzle awareness'. I have heard countless times "Oh, it's okay, the safety is on" ? I have to disagree with the "all guns should have an auto safe" WHY , if gun handling is the all important issue, then surely the application of the safety catch is irrelevant ? Edited February 21, 2018 by Westley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) That`s born of ignorance of what a Safety actually does..... Ignorance is no excuse...as they say! Even foolproof things only evolve better idiots. Edited February 21, 2018 by matone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 A safety catch is there to stop accidental pulling of the trigger. . This can happen (and does sometimes . ) when the gun isn't mounted but being moved around ..a friend shot the inside of his car door as the trigger of the gun caught on a zip of his jacket. .if the safety had been on the discharge wouldnt have happened. Accident ? Yes, but good job I wasn't sitting in the passenger seat . Use the saftey as much as you can at all times .you may never be aware of how many times its saved your bacon already . Good muzzle awareness ofcourse .of course of course. But saftey catch too please . Ps personally I dont like auto saftey .I prefer to be in complete control . I'm the auto safety catch. It automatically goes on when I'm not lined up on a bird . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Ultrastu said: A safety catch is there to stop accidental pulling of the trigger. . This can happen (and does sometimes . ) when the gun isn't mounted but being moved around ..a friend shot the inside of his car door as the trigger of the gun caught on a zip of his jacket. .if the safety had been on the discharge wouldnt have happened. Accident ? Yes, but good job I wasn't sitting in the passenger seat . Use the saftey as much as you can at all times .you may never be aware of how many times its saved your bacon already . Good muzzle awareness ofcourse .of course of course. But saftey catch too please . Why on God’s green earth did he have a loaded gun in car? Unnacceptle imo safety on or off an unloaded gun cannot fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) It was a rifle and shooting from a car is common practice . You bring the gun inside to reload the mag .and an accidental trigger pull happened. Edited February 21, 2018 by Ultrastu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Ultrastu said: It was a rifle and shooting from a car is common practice . Safety on a rifle works differently on most to a shotgun shotgun typically locks the trigger, not the pin. Normally on a rifle safety will lock the pin, can still fail, sounds like someone was very very lucky. persoanlly don’t like auto safety, if it’s not safe to fire break it....unload it. only possible reason is walked up shooting when safety should be on and muzzles pointing safe. Edited February 21, 2018 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Safety always off on clays. Safety always on for game auto or manual but it's belt and braces job and should never be used to cover poor muzzle awareness. I flick the safety off when I first address the bird and if I don't take the shot I flick safety on again. In reality I don't need safety catch because like the majority (one hopes) I have excellent muzzle awareness and general safe gun handling ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billytheghillie Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Never ever rely on a safety catch, the gun is loaded and accidents happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexBee Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Safe gun handling far more important an old gunsmith once said to me lifting the barrels of a shotgun towards me 'Would you trust the safety catch ?' If you're not sure break the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Ah....a major bugbear of mine! I will not knowingly shoot with anyone who relies on the safety to prevent them from shooting me or anyone else. Muzzle awareness is EVERYTHING, even if the safety is applied. but I can't think of any occasion ( except decoying in pairs with an OU perhaps ?) where a gun would be closed and the safety on! If the gun is closed then you should be about to take the shot, so why the need for the safety? It baffles and confounds me; it is so very very simple. One of the most annoying and most ignorant things to hear is 'it's ok, the safeties on'! It isn't ok at all. Auto or manual safety, that gun should be kept broken at all times until you mount it to actually shoot something; if the shot isn't taken the gun should immediately be broken again. Whether driven or walked up, there is no need to close your gun until its needed. When we lamp from a vehicle its quite easy to leave the breech open until its time to shoot. If the shot isnt taken I just drop the mag' and hold one hand under the housing; if you withdraw the bolt slowly enough the round just drops into your hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Please can we just rememer what a safety catch does. It locks the triggers and nothing else. So unless you have a shotgun with intercepting safety sears it does not prevent it going off. So a gun can still discharge with safety on in most cases. That could be caused by any type of jarring such as dropping and I guess snapping shut if the gun has excessive wear. The point is you can never rely on the safety, auto or manual, with a loaded gun and must have the barrels pointing in a safe direction, preferably skywards or into the ground. That is also why you raise the stock to the barrels not vice versa. In so doing the barrels are always pointing safely into the ground when the gun is closed. That is my two pennies worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Well im pretty sure every one agrees on muzzle awareness first and foremost .and also that nobody here thinks a saftey catch is a substitute for muzzle awareness . But to rely on muzzle awareness alone and disregard a saftey catch is irresponsible thinking to my mind .and I for one wouldnt shoot along side a person who wont use the catch . Not all guns can be broken in the middle . Is it some sort of " I'm such a hero I dont need to flick a catch " mentality that stops people from using a saftey catch??? Boggles me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said: Please can we just rememer what a safety catch does. It locks the triggers and nothing else. So unless you have a shotgun with intercepting safety sears it does not prevent it going off. So a gun can still discharge with safety on in most cases. That could be caused by any type of jarring such as dropping and I guess snapping shut if the gun has excessive wear. The point is you can never rely on the safety, auto or manual, with a loaded gun and must have the barrels pointing in a safe direction, preferably skywards or into the ground. That is also why you raise the stock to the barrels not vice versa. In so doing the barrels are always pointing safely into the ground when the gun is closed. That is my two pennies worth. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) If I am shooting with a party it is normally on a driven day. Whether I am sitting or standing my gun will be pointing directly up in the air, held by my right hand, either supported by my knee if sitting and my hip if standing. The safety catch on my 410 is automatic and will be set 'off'. At the approach of a bird I will then take the forened with my right hand and the muzzles will be directed at the approaching bird. Shot fired, gun opened and empty ejected, reload and return to original position. End of drive open and empty gun, slide gun into slip making sure never to have the muzzles pointing at anyone. As a walking gun, I would still have the gun ported directly up in the air supported by both hands but this time with safety on in case I stumble which goes some way to stopping a careless discharge but safeties are not fool proof. If a bird comes my way , the safety is slid off as the gun comes to the shoulder. Clay shooting.... the only safety is an open gun. Apart from two semi autos all of my clay guns were no auto safeties We did not have the handy little plastic slide stops in my day for semi autos, but I would always have the marshal confirm my gun was empty before turning to leave the stand. Edited February 21, 2018 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ultrastu said: Well im pretty sure every one agrees on muzzle awareness first and foremost .and also that nobody here thinks a saftey catch is a substitute for muzzle awareness . But to rely on muzzle awareness alone and disregard a saftey catch is irresponsible thinking to my mind .and I for one wouldnt shoot along side a person who wont use the catch . Not all guns can be broken in the middle . Respectfully disagree. Muzzle awareness is everything, safety catch can lull you into a false sense of security. I do not rely on safety catch I rely on muzzle awareness 3 minutes ago, Walker570 said: If I am shooting with a party it is normally on a driven day. Whether I am sitting or standing my gun will be pointing directly up in the air, held by my right hand, either supported by my knee if sitting and my hip if standing. The safety catch on my 410 is automatic and will be set 'off'. At the approach of a bird I will then take the forened with my right hand and the muzzles will be directed at the approaching bird. Shot fired, gun opened and empty ejected, reload and return to original position. End of drive open and empty gun, slide gun into slip making sure never to have the muzzles pointing at anyone. As a walking gun, I would still have the gun ported directly up in the air supported by both hands but this time with safety on in case I stumble which goes some way to stopping a careless discharge but safeties are not fool proof. If a bird comes my way , the safety is slid off as the gun comes to the shoulder. Clay shooting.... the only safety is an open gun. Apart from two semi autos all of my clay guns were no auto safeties Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Eh ? You have agreed with me .not disagreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) Quote But to rely on muzzle awareness alone and disregard a saftey catch is irresponsible thinking to my mind He disagreed and I support him. Edited February 21, 2018 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, ips said: I do not rely on safety catch I rely on muzzle awaren Does this mean you ONLY rely on muzzle awareness ? And you don't use the catch ? That's gonna bite you in the backside big time one day. Triggers most often get accidentally pulled when the gun isn't in the shoulder .so it could be pointing at your foot .or at the roof of a barn .or swinging past a parked tractor ,when it goes off .all reasonably good muzzle awareness but still a bad time for a gun to go off .also a discharging 12b out of the shoulder is gonna hurt you somewhere . Please don't be a hero .and flick the catch its really easy to do . I'm advocating the belt AND braces approach .not just belt . Edited February 21, 2018 by Ultrastu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Driven shooting gun closed towards ground barrel up above tree with safety on birds start approaching safety off no shoot safety back on or shoot one or two safety back on gun down to ground unload reload repeat. Clays only safe gun is empty and open. Gun closed just before callling unloaded after shot no need for safety catch unless practice for game days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, Ultrastu said: Does this mean you ONLY rely on muzzle awareness ? And you don't use the catch ? That's gonna bite you in the backside big time one day. Triggers most often get accidentally pulled when the gun isn't in the shoulder .so it could be pointing at your foot .or at the roof of a barn .or swinging past a parked tractor ,when it goes off .all reasonably good muzzle awareness but still a bad time for a gun to go off .also a discharging 12b out of the shoulder is gonna hurt you somewhere . Please don't be a hero .and flick the catch its really easy to do . I'm advocating the belt AND braces approach .not just belt . I do use the catch just in case I trip etc but muzzle awareness is more important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Personally I only take the safety catch off when mounting the gun for a shot. That is the way I was always taught back in the day. I agree awareness of where the muzzles are pointing is far more important but to me the safety should be on until the gun needs to be discharged. People who shoot with me in a pigeon hide and leave the safety catch off seldom get a second invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 11 hours ago, billytheghillie said: Never ever rely on a safety catch, the gun is loaded and accidents happen. This.. The biggest safety feature on any gun is the user. A safety catch is just a piece of metal that can corrode and break. Never assume because the little S is visible that the gun is safe. 9 hours ago, aga man said: People who shoot with me in a pigeon hide and leave the safety catch off seldom get a second invite. When in a hide and sat, the gun pointing straight up and muzzle above head height. Safety sometimes left off. Is this unsafe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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