Looks like Lincolnshire have kicked off compulsory doctors reports

[CharlieT]

21 minutes ago, Robden said:

"WOW!!" 

https://basc.org.uk/blog/press-releases/featured-news/basc-statement-on-lincolnshire-police/

WOW indeed................. An extremely hard hitting press release

[Scully]

Ah well......

[zipdog]

BASC is seeking legal advice on the matter........ surely they should already know the requirements of the Firearms act 1968 and if such a policy can be enforced by the police. 

I was a member of BASC but didn't renew my membership a few years ago because I struggled to see any examples of successful lobbying by them which had protected the rights of gun owners or repealed unjustified laws relating to firearms ownership and use.

I feel their feeble response to this matter further justifies my decision.

If you want to support a good organisation which undertakes and publishes research into the positives shooting brings to conservation efforts then join the GWCT.

Sadly though this country lacks a decent lobbying group.

 

  

[Bazooka Joe]

2 hours ago, Flyboy1950 said:

This news isn't any surprise, Lincolnshire Police announced this very topic on Countryfile around 6 weeks ago.

I trust BASC and the other shooting organisations took it on board then to prepare their counter actions, to get ahead of the game, but I doubt it some how.

Basc & the rest has had 5 yr to prepare, a lot longer than 6 weeks, Durham started all this scenario with a scheme that was to be voluntary.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

From the article:

Lincolnshire Police has issued a statement on its website that medical checks will be required for the grant and renewal of shotgun and firearm certificates.

This change in policy will apply to all new applications from 4th April 2018 and for all renewals from 1st August 2018 onwards.

BASC is seeking legal advice on this matter.

If any BASC members are affected by this change please contact BASC’s firearms team for advice.

 

I presume that will be EVERY BASC Member that lives in Lincolnshire!

Edited April 5, 2018 by TIGHTCHOKE
Addition

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And from the Police response;

Changes to firearms licencing to boost public safety

Lincolnshire Police is placing the safety of gun users and members of the public at the forefront of their firearms licensing system and will be the first place in the country to require the medical information of every person applying for a firearms licence or a renewal.

The initiative will mean licences are never granted before up-to-date medical records checks are received by Lincolnshire Police.  This will apply to new applications from today (4 April) and renewals as of 1 August.

Lincolnshire Police is launching this to improve the safety of both licence holders and county residents, recognising that we have over 20,000 licences in the county.

National advice from the Home Office currently requires police forces to apply for medical records checks.  However, if a force then doesn’t receive a response from the applicants GP within 21 days – the force is guided to assume there are no medical issues and grant a licence. 

This means that across the country, licences to hold a gun or shotgun are sometimes granted without medical information being obtained by the police or consideration given to health issues that may increase risk to gun ownership.

Deputy Chief Constable Craig Naylor, is taking a stand against this:

“Our shooting community are very responsible and want to work with us to ensure the safety of all.  We believe that just assuming someone is safe to have a gun is extremely dangerous and totally irresponsible, so we are taking steps to provide a better understanding of an individual’s suitability to have a certificate.

“Since my arrival in Lincolnshire I have been made aware of tragic circumstances where firearms licence holders have taken their own life.  I am committed to reducing this and providing the best possible safeguards to our communities.

“We have a duty to protect every resident in this county and by improving this process we are protecting both licence holders and the public.  The proposal is not expensive and equates to a cost of approximately 25p per certificate holder per week – roughly the cost of one shotgun cartridge.”

“We will not be granting anyone a licence unless we have received a medical report from their GP.”

[Guest stevo]

I rest my case  ............

 

 Bet lincs police are pooing  there pants  chuffing joke ? 

[roadkill]

yep shocking really, they will no longer be having any funds from me 

[Bazooka Joe]

If either SACS/CA/NGO etc take a legal case on board & are SEEN to be doing something about it,

I can see their ranks swelling with new membership.

 

[Gordon R]

It might well be a crossroads for BASC. The view was that not only did they provide insurance, but looked after shooters' interests. If they do not mount a legal challenge, just what are they there for - insurance aside? If it goes pear shaped and they achieve nothing, I think people will be voting with their feet - Adios Amigo BASC.

[panoma1]

The question is, are the police acting beyond their powers? By arbitrarily introducing a condition which imposes a financial consequence on certificate applicants? Is it government policy for the police to impose their own conditions outwith home office (government) guidance? 

Again if this condition is imposed for public safety reasons, There is a strong case that it should be paid for from the public purse!

To be fair to BASC no one can stop anyone doing anything!.......but you can certainly challenge any arbitrary decision!

Lets see what BASC come up with! Before we condemn them.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Oh yes, good point all except their poor track record.

[sportsbob]

So Lincs Police estimate the cost of the medical report to be £65, perhaps a compromise would be the cost for the report should be a set figure and the licence be 10 years.

If BASC do not achieve both objectives before my next subscription is due I will be cancelling the subscription.

[243deer]

If protecting the public and stopping folk from committing suicide was the genuine reason that Lincolnshire police want a medical report then I assume that they are reasonably intelligent and can realise that their logic is fundamentally flawed asking for one report every 5 years. 

The obvious way of achieving the aims would be to have continuous assessment by your GP and that the police be informed if the GP had any genuine cause for concern as soon as it became apparent. If your GP has not seen you during the last 5 years (lucky you, I wish) then it could only be assumed that all was OK when the GP was to write a report. 

I am at a loss to understand what Lincs police wish to achieve apart from a publicity stunt.  

[CharlieT]

2 minutes ago, 243deer said:

If protecting the public and stopping folk from committing suicide was the genuine reason that Lincolnshire police want a medical report then I assume that they are reasonably intelligent and can realise that their logic is fundamentally flawed asking for one report every 5 years. 

The obvious way of achieving the aims would be to have continuous assessment by your GP and that the police be informed if the GP had any genuine cause for concern as soon as it became apparent. If your GP has not seen you during the last 5 years (lucky you, I wish) then it could only be assumed that all was OK when the GP was to write a report. 

I am at a loss to understand what Lincs police wish to achieve apart from a publicity stunt.  

That is exactly why GP's are now required to place an enduring marker on a patient's record. This requirement obliges GP's to inform the police of any concerns the GP may have during the life of the certificate.

[panoma1]

7 minutes ago, 243deer said:

If protecting the public and stopping folk from committing suicide was the genuine reason that Lincolnshire police want a medical report then I assume that they are reasonably intelligent and can realise that their logic is fundamentally flawed asking for one report every 5 years. 

The obvious way of achieving the aims would be to have continuous assessment by your GP and that the police be informed if the GP had any genuine cause for concern as soon as it became apparent. If your GP has not seen you during the last 5 years (lucky you, I wish) then it could only be assumed that all was OK when the GP was to write a report. 

I am at a loss to understand what Lincs police wish to achieve apart from a publicity stunt.  

Quite! If a certificate holder is under continuous assessment surely a certificate should be for life? If an individual commits any offence the police will know, if you have a relevant medical condition the doctor will know you are a gun owner and alert the police.....the only requirement should be a certificate holder periodically  updates the photo on the certificate!

[CharlieT]

16 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

The question is, are the police acting beyond their powers? By arbitrarily introducing a condition which imposes a financial consequence on certificate applicants? Is it government policy for the police to impose their own conditions outwith home office (government) guidance? 

Again if this condition is imposed for public safety reasons, There is a strong case that it should be paid for from the public purse!

To be fair to BASC no one can stop anyone doing anything!.......but you can certainly challenge any arbitrary decision!

Lets see what BASC come up with! Before we condemn them.

Interestingly, Lincs was seeking legal advice on the matter prior to instigating this policy, so I guess their Legal team ruled it was indeed legal.

This is the extract from the latest published FELWG minuets.........

Lincolnshire have had a number suicides by shooting, and force’ position may change to a policy of requiring a medical screening letter – this has not been adopted yet as it is being considered by legal.

[Clodhopper]

7 minutes ago, 243deer said:

If protecting the public and stopping folk from committing suicide was the genuine reason that Lincolnshire police want a medical report then I assume that they are reasonably intelligent and can realise that their logic is fundamentally flawed asking for one report every 5 years. 

The obvious way of achieving the aims would be to have continuous assessment by your GP and that the police be informed if the GP had any genuine cause for concern as soon as it became apparent. If your GP has not seen you during the last 5 years (lucky you, I wish) then it could only be assumed that all was OK when the GP was to write a report. 

I am at a loss to understand what Lincs police wish to achieve apart from a publicity stunt.  

It is exactly that, a publicity stunt. What comes next with police making things? Where does it stop? Once it is accepted and enforced they will do as they like, each time a new commissioner is elected they will try to out do the last by imposing more restrictions for their own political gain.

Meanwhile in London there is a record amount of murders this year mainly related to drug gangs, its about time the Met pulled their finger out to combat this by imposing more restrictions on law abiding citizens.

[243deer]

14 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Quite! If a certificate holder is under continuous assessment surely a certificate should be for life? If an individual commits any offence the police will know, if you have a relevant medical condition the doctor will know you are a gun owner and alert the police.....the only requirement should be a certificate holder periodically  updates the photo on the certificate!

Certificate for life - yes please - just think of the cost savings for constabularies!

Updating the photo could, for most of us, be linked to Driving licence/passport renewals piggy backing on to an existing system at relatively low cost. A system which, almost certainly, already links the 3/4 documents anyway.

Cost savings without any extra danger to the public.

Sorry, apologies everyone, now returning to the real world of political waste and sound bites without any recourse to evidence.

[Smokersmith]

If Lincs police have a legal case for enforcing this, what do we really expect BASC to do?

[panoma1]

55 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

Interestingly, Lincs was seeking legal advice on the matter prior to instigating this policy, so I guess their Legal team ruled it was indeed legal.

This is the extract from the latest published FELWG minuets.........

Lincolnshire have had a number suicides by shooting, and force’ position may change to a policy of requiring a medical screening letter – this has not been adopted yet as it is being considered by legal.

Acting legally is one thing, acting ultra-vires is another matter!

It's the job of the government to make policy and law.........it's the job of to the police to follow government policy and enforce compliance with the law.....

What next...... the police authorised to arrest and prosecute suspects, judge them and sentence them too?

[clakk]

Making your own "Home office guidelines " up as you go along and then finding an in house lawyer saying you can do that doesnt make it legal.Law is a quagmire and open to how each lawyer interprets it in his or her own way.BASC should legally challenge this in the courts ,BUT wont.They have turned an agreement between BMA ,The police and shooting bodies into a legal requirement how is that a mandate to make your own laws up.BMA want dollars and you will pay or they will roll you over despite anything agreed .

If BASC dont fight this as they havent in Scotland they will go the way of the Dodo and making statements bother the police and BMA as much as a mouse trump.The membership across most forums are discussing this fiasco and a lot of people will be voting with their wallet come renewal time for BASC .

Edited April 5, 2018 by clakk

[oowee]

Taking advice is the first step(maybe a little late) it's the right order of things. Lets hope they take it from a proper brief not a mate of a mate. 

I would happily give up my magazine, green shoots program and whatever else to see them getting a grip. I really do despair when I see a lot of good they are doing on sport development and advice but if they cannot take decisive action to protect the sport and THEIR MEMBERS there is little point in doing the rest of the work.

[ditchman]

3 hours ago, sportsbob said:

So Lincs Police estimate the cost of the medical report to be £65, perhaps a compromise would be the cost for the report should be a set figure and the licence be 10 years.

If BASC do not achieve both objectives before my next subscription is due I will be cancelling the subscription.

last time i enquired at the doc's for a private medical report ...the fee was £250........................

[kaunda]

If the G.P.sends a report about me to the Police, am I entitled to a copy ?