Side by Side Club

[Westley]

AyA no.2 comes home  !  Back in 1978 I sold my beloved AyA no.2 to fund the purchase of another much loved gun, my Westley Richards. Anyway, a couple of weeks ago I heard that the guy who bought my gun was giving up shooting and was selling his guns. So, an offer on the AyA was made and accepted and I collected it last Thursday.  It is not without issues, someone has tried to replace the right hand firing pin (probably without removing the 'vent screw' retainer first) and damaged the holes in the disc. So a new pin and disc required, plus their fitting. Also the stock has never seen any oil since it left me in 78. The rest of the gun is in good order and I am led to believe that it has not fired a box of cartridges since it left me, the past owner preferred his Zabala.  I shall try and post some pics.

[39TDS]

On 01/03/2022 at 18:03, The_Engineer said:

Thanks @arjimlad. Now all I need is another to make a pair 😆

Not sure when or where you bought it but I saw one very recently in a gunshop near you, that was 11th of Feb.

I very nearly bought it myself but believe it or not I opted for a Baikal instead. Been after one in 12G for ages and they had a nice one in. I did say I'd be back the following week for the other one.

No regrets on the Baikal but wished I'd bought both.

[theshootist]

On 05/03/2022 at 21:12, Westley said:

AyA no.2 comes home  !  Back in 1978 I sold my beloved AyA no.2 to fund the purchase of another much loved gun, my Westley Richards. Anyway, a couple of weeks ago I heard that the guy who bought my gun was giving up shooting and was selling his guns. So, an offer on the AyA was made and accepted and I collected it last Thursday.  It is not without issues, someone has tried to replace the right hand firing pin (probably without removing the 'vent screw' retainer first) and damaged the holes in the disc. So a new pin and disc required, plus their fitting. Also the stock has never seen any oil since it left me in 78. The rest of the gun is in good order and I am led to believe that it has not fired a box of cartridges since it left me, the past owner preferred his Zabala.  I shall try and post some pics.

 

 

 

Great to get your old gun back, but crikey that is tough to look at! What was that person thinking!? What barrels and rib does it have? 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Good to see you've got it back, hopefully with a little TLC you can return it to 1978.

Good luck.

[Mr.C]

That is not a particularly sympathetic attempt at removing the right hand disc. Some of those score marks run right off the face! 

As TC said, good luck with the restoration. 

[Westley]

On 07/03/2022 at 18:51, Mr.C said:

That is not a particularly sympathetic attempt at removing the right hand disc. Some of those score marks run right off the face! 

As TC said, good luck with the restoration. 

Thank you guys, it is 26" barrels with a conventional sunken rib. I suppose, looking on the bright side, the gun has weathered the last 40 years better than I have   😄

The barrels and forend are both good and I have stripped the stock back, giving it its first coats of alkanet root oil. I have managed to bring the colour up and highlighted some of the figure  but a long way to go yet.

[kevin55]

I though I'd share this as I used it on Wednesday, a 150 year old Purdey: originally damascus and non-rebounding hammers, taken-in for re-bounding hammers and steel barrels by the then owner, a reverend whose wife was a niece of the Prime Minister

Now invisibly sleeved and marks showing London proof 1983, choked approx 1/8 and 1/4, with little cast and suits me as a lefty with a pad to exetend the stock to 15"

The forend is push-rod and someone thought this a likely later addition

Edited March 11, 2022 by kevin55
spelling

[Gunman]

I would assume the push rod forend would have been fitted with the new barrels .

By " invisibly sleeved " I take it you imply welded joints which 1983 was very early for this to be done so I would be curious to note if there are any marks to indicate who did it .

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, kevin55 said:

The forend is push-rod and someone though this a likely later addition

The Anson push rod was apparently patented in 1872.  Same article suggests non rebounding locks usually indicates early 1870s or before.

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/gun-date-detective-work

It looks a lovely gun.  Purdey patented their first pattern thumbhole in 1863, so at that date and later they are often seen on Purdeys.  Island locks (like yours) also seem quite popular with Purdey.

[London Best]

The second I saw the picture (before I read the post) I was thinking,”that’s quality”.

[kevin55]

17 minutes ago, Gunman said:

I would assume the push rod forend would have been fitted with the new barrels .

By " invisibly sleeved " I take it you imply welded joints which 1983 was very early for this to be done so I would be curious to note if there are any marks to indicate who did it .

No marks that I can see and no visible sleeving line. LP 83 is stamped on the flats

20 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The Anson push rod was apparently patented in 1872.  Same article suggests non rebounding locks usually indicates early 1870s or before.

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/gun-date-detective-work

It looks a lovely gun.  Purdey patented their first pattern thumbhole in 1863, so at that date and later they are often seen on Purdeys.  Island locks (like yours) also seem quite popular with Purdey.

Thanks for the article John

Someone at the shooting ground on Wednesday had a 1950s Purdey pigeon gun, he was showing me how good the engraving was on it, then he looked at mine, saying the engraving was likely done by Lutz (it sounded like) and added "and it's better than the engraving on mine"

 

[kevin55]

12 minutes ago, London Best said:

The second I saw the picture (before I read the post) I was thinking,”that’s quality”.

Some ex Purdey guys at the shooting ground agreed, it is heavier than 1 or 2 expected

[JohnfromUK]

14 minutes ago, kevin55 said:

saying the engraving was likely done by Lutz (it sounded like)

There was James Lucas who engraved for Purdey in the C19th.

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-ultimate-high-bird-gun-

[kevin55]

18 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

There was James Lucas who engraved for Purdey in the C19th.

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-ultimate-high-bird-gun-

Thanks John, it must have been Lucas

I'll take some photographs to show the engraving, when my wife is out

[impala59]

On a more mundane note!! This one came to me from a chap who has given up shooting (unfortunately) It is an Armas Bisonte Eibar (Eibar Bison Guns) and seems quite well made and solid. Still has some case hardening colour, undamaged wood and good bores. It is 12g, 28", non ejector, chambered 2 3/4, choked half and full and though a touch on the heavy side, seems to handle quite nicely. I have yet to shoot it, but looking forward, as always to discover its quirks and foibles! I'm sure that Bison is just its name, not its intended target!!!

Any info/ comments from the PW oracle?

[Accuspell]

I have only just stumbled across this section of the forum. I am not familiar with how these places work, I tend to just stick to the 'general' area and forget to look around!

An old saying I was taught when learning to shoot, back in the 1970s,

"If God had meant us to shoot with an over & under he would have put one eye over the other."

I sold my English gun the other week. I think the pictures are still about on the sale page. I have deleted them to make room on my confuser. I bought it in the gunshop on Heavitree Road, Exeter in 1985 I think it was, might have been 84. I was milking cows on a big dairy farm at Broadclyst (Elbury Farm, owned by the Lee family. The herdsman was Graham Swinson, if anyone from that area knows if he is still about).  Anyway, following my crash I have bought a semi auto. I still haven't got it yet, still waiting on my renewal (from November, with a September approach date!) I had the interview yesterday, so hopefully within a couple of weeks I can go and fetch it and see how it feels.  I still have the Beretta Silver Hawk I bought new from The Countryman in Derby, the date will be in the case with all the paperwork and spare chokes. I have only ever used 'true' and 'imp cyl' through it. The other chokes have never been out of their plastic tubes! It works fine. I will try and find a picture of two and join in on here. It has accounted for a couple of cormorants this 'protection' season. I am on the licence, so don't worry.

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Accuspell
Picture too big,.

[Centrepin]

I've recently fallen upon a Miroku SBS with ejectors, apparently grade 2+, 28" barrels, I think the woodwork is quite poor and needs work but the metalwork is mint. Engraving very basic. Choked at maybe 1/2 & 1/8 so it's been bored out at some point. Very tight in the action and a pachmayr pad fitted giving a first pull of 14 7/8.

Low in the comb so I'm considering a raiser.

Any help in identifying the model or age would be gratefully received. 

I was told by a friend it maybe a model 500?

Serial number starts 416 and no letters so pre 1975  but I believe this is in line with other makes that miroku did at the time for other marques.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Centrepin
Spelling

[Centrepin]

Double posted 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Centrepin

[Gunman]

Look at the proof marks for a date .

 

[Centrepin]

On 31/03/2022 at 13:16, Gunman said:

Look at the proof marks for a date .

 

👍1968

[Gunman]

14 hours ago, Centrepin said:

👍1968

Dont want to put a damper on things .BUT . On quite a few of these early imports that were Birmingham proofed there was a problem . Barrels marked up ay .719" esspesially .

Basically they measured the barrels with a plug , first would be a .719" if this passed the 9" mark then they would try a .729" plug . If this did not enter to 9's" the barrel would be marked at .7i9".

As the Japanese used metric sizes it was the case that the barrels bored to .728" or 18.5 mm would be marked as .719" by the Proof house in accordance with the rules but the barrel had only .001" before going out of proof .

When this was realised and intermediate plug , .725"was used and the barrel were marked accordingly so it has been known for a barrel with a bore of .724"/18.4 mm to be marked at .729" .

 

 

[Centrepin]

6 minutes ago, Gunman said:

Dont want to put a damper on things .BUT . On quite a few of these early imports that were Birmingham proofed there was a problem . Barrels marked up ay .719" esspesially .

Basically they measured the barrels with a plug , first would be a .719" if this passed the 9" mark then they would try a .729" plug . If this did not enter to 9's" the barrel would be marked at .7i9".

As the Japanese used metric sizes it was the case that the barrels bored to .728" or 18.5 mm would be marked as .719" by the Proof house in accordance with the rules but the barrel had only .001" before going out of proof .

When this was realised and intermediate plug , .725"was used and the barrel were marked accordingly so it has been known for a barrel with a bore of .724"/18.4 mm to be marked at .729" .

 

 

My barrels are both marked .719, I don't have anything to measure with but as I bought from a reputable dealer who gave me a warranty I presume it will be both legal and safe. If not he's in big trouble.

I've already put several 32gram x 6s & 5s through it on pigeon and a couple of 28gram on squirrels.

On doing a little research it was purchased by him at auction in the previous month or so.

 

 

 

 

[theshootist]

On 30/03/2022 at 11:07, Centrepin said:

I've recently fallen upon a Miroku SBS with ejectors, apparently grade 2+, 28" barrels, I think the woodwork is quite poor and needs work but the metalwork is mint. Engraving very basic. Choked at maybe 1/2 & 1/8 so it's been bored out at some point. Very tight in the action and a pachmayr pad fitted giving a first pull of 14 7/8.

Low in the comb so I'm considering a raiser.

Any help in identifying the model or age would be gratefully received. 

I was told by a friend it maybe a model 500?

Serial number starts 416 and no letters so pre 1975  but I believe this is in line with other makes that miroku did at the time for other marques.

 

 

I used to shoot with a gentleman who used one of these. They are very well put together indeed. 

[Centrepin]

20 minutes ago, theshootist said:

I used to shoot with a gentleman who used one of these. They are very well put together indeed. 

I really went to look at an old English hammer gun, unfortunately it was loose in the action, cracked in the stock and outrageously overpriced. There in the rack next it sat a Miroku with my name on it screaming buy me. It would have been rude not to. Now all all I need is cabinet space or maybe a 4th cabinet🙄🤔

[Westley]

On 02/04/2022 at 17:46, Centrepin said:

👍1968

I believe I am right in suggesting it was proofed in UK  ?

I think it is also a model BL150. Around that time they also produced an SL120 which was a genuine sidelock and a top quality gun. I have actually seen and handled, but not shot, a true pair of those. A shooting pal has had a BL150 boxlock for over 40 years without any problems and apart from usual cleaning and oiling, never been serviced. Enjoy it.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Westley