Energy drinks

[Rewulf]

21 minutes ago, AVB said:

I think you are missing the point. Kids are not buying and drinking 5 cups of coffee from Starbucks. They are buying and drinking 5 cans of Monster from the local corner shop. 

So by banning the sale of such things to under 18s we are going to effectively stop them from doing it ?

Like alcohol and drugs ?
Youll be telling me next no one has sex under the age of 16 .

[12gauge82]

17 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

So by banning the sale of such things to under 18s we are going to effectively stop them from doing it ?

Like alcohol and drugs ?
Youll be telling me next no one has sex under the age of 16 .

Agreed, how many times have we all seen kids smoking behind the bike shed because it was cool back when we were at school, the thing with energy drinks is they'll be far easier for the young to get there hands on than even cigarette's.

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Agreed, how many times have we all seen kids smoking behind the bike shed because it was cool back when we were at school, the thing with energy drinks is they'll be far easier for the young to get there hands on than even cigarette's.

Exactly.
Im not saying they arent bad for kids in excess.
But how on earth are you going to stop them, you cant stop them drinking ,smoking and taking drugs.
If they want to do something theyll do it, probably tip 5 teaspoons of instant coffee in their cakeholes !

 https://www.boston.com/uncategorized/noprimarytagmatch/2012/10/25/how-much-caffeine-is-really-in-those-energy-drinks

What next, you cant get a cappucino in a coffee shop, because youre underage ?

[AVB]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

So by banning the sale of such things to under 18s we are going to effectively stop them from doing it ?

Like alcohol and drugs ?
Youll be telling me next no one has sex under the age of 16 .

No but you can slow it down. It won’t stop the feral kids but I believe decent ones are influenced by what’s easily available to them. 

[panoma1]

I seem to recall, it was once generally considered bad/not allowed (dunno if it was illegal?) for minors to drink coffee in the USA?

[12gauge82]

41 minutes ago, AVB said:

No but you can slow it down. It won’t stop the feral kids but I believe decent ones are influenced by what’s easily available to them. 

IMHO, a ban would just make it cool and lead to more kids using them or going mad on them when they're old enough, i could be wrong of course.

[ClemFandango]

Personally I can see the sense behind the idea, I'm not totally sure banning energy drinks for under 18's is the answer but at the same time I can't see that the ban will do any harm - nobody really needs energy drinks to function, if you do you have a problem. And much less someone under 18, I did my GCSE's and A levels without energy drinks as have hundreds of thousands maybe millions more, what has changed that school children need so much sugar and caffeine? 

I would say that a ban on the sale of energy drinks to under 18's would do more good than harm so in principal I am behind it.

That or heavily tax sugar and caffeine past a certain threshold and use the money to subsidise the cost of fruit and veg? 

Who knows what's best? not me. What I do know is that for as long as I have control over my kids they won't be allowed energy drinks and personally I am not in a rush to start chugging red bull. 

[Mice!]

I cant see kids suddenly going into Starbucks for four or five coffees a day, never mind the price look at the adverts of say red bull, my kids always stop and watch.

I'm not a coffee or energy drink fan but i know the tastes are totally different, couple of lads at work regularly have a couple of those bigger monster cans ?

[Mungler]

The last energy drink I had was in 2013.

It was a super hot summer's day, an early start to a very stressful day and all I had had was a large coffee for breakfast topped off with a red bull at lunchtime - that was the first time I suffered from AF.

The thing about AF is once you open the door to it, you then become susceptible to it.

I now don't drink coffee beyond mid day, won't touch an energy drink and am mindful to try and drink more water (dehydration is another trigger).

There is no way kids should be smashing that stuff down their necks like fizzy pop. 

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, panoma1 said:

I seem to recall, it was once generally considered bad/not allowed (dunno if it was illegal?) for minors to drink coffee in the USA?

It was true when I was a kid, I was not allowed coffee. But back then it was drunk much less than it is today 

[team tractor]

2 hours ago, ClemFandango said:

Personally I can see the sense behind the idea, I'm not totally sure banning energy drinks for under 18's is the answer but at the same time I can't see that the ban will do any harm - nobody really needs energy drinks to function, if you do you have a problem. And much less someone under 18, I did my GCSE's and A levels without energy drinks as have hundreds of thousands maybe millions more, what has changed that school children need so much sugar and caffeine? 

I would say that a ban on the sale of energy drinks to under 18's would do more good than harm so in principal I am behind it.

That or heavily tax sugar and caffeine past a certain threshold and use the money to subsidise the cost of fruit and veg? 

Who knows what's best? not me. What I do know is that for as long as I have control over my kids they won't be allowed energy drinks and personally I am not in a rush to start chugging red bull. 

Exactly this. I never had one at school but I also never stayed up until 2 am playing PlayStation. I was in bed for 10 and up at 8. I wish I could still get that much sleep  .

on the Jaime Oliver program following kids in schools it was shocking . Some were drinking 2 litres a day  . Suffering with headaches and tired still. 

Really

 

i work 8-16 hour days and don’t need it anymore.

im only 36

[7daysinaweek]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

The last energy drink I had was in 2013.

It was a super hot summer's day, an early start to a very stressful day and all I had had was a large coffee for breakfast topped off with a red bull at lunchtime - that was the first time I suffered from AF.

The thing about AF is once you open the door to it, you then become susceptible to it.

I now don't drink coffee beyond mid day, won't touch an energy drink and am mindful to try and drink more water (dehydration is another trigger).

There is no way kids should be smashing that stuff down their necks like fizzy pop. 

 

I rarely pass a month without  diagnosing a case of supraventricular tachycardia (SVT)  which is a broad term for several cardiac arrythmia (heart arrythmia) Not all cases are directly attributed to consumption of energy drinks, some  are caused by other factors affecting the cardiac anatomy and physiology.

Some cases have a possible associated link with high energy drinks along with use of amphetamines, cocaine and  heroin  which have side effects of coronary artery spasm and inducing pre excitory arrythmias. See a few people who party hard with use of illicit substances and mix it up with energy drinks.

Have diagnosed  males and females from mid teens who have binged on energy drinks and  after taking a clinical history from the pt the consumption of the energy drink has been the only identifiable trigger factor, having ruled out other behavioral, biochemical, physiological factors.

Quite a few years ago I worked in coronary intensive care and for a large part of me life I ate, slept and breathed the heart. Saw and managed many cases of SVT from energy drink abuse. Frightening for the individual having your heart beating out of your chest among other symptoms. Have had to result in shocking (cardioversion) individuals when all other guidance measures have failed. 

Saw individuals who would return for treatment and management for months and years with paroxysmal SVT who were a first presentation SVT from energy drink abuse.

Caffeine in energy drinks  affects the body in many ways, caffeine is an agonist and increases adrenaline (enepherine) noradrenaline and dopamine production increasing your heart rate, increasing your blood pressure, increasing your heart muscle contractile output. Your heart can do that through every now and then without concern but constant production of these is not good for your good ol body!

atb

7diaw

 

 

[Mice!]

4 minutes ago, 7daysinaweek said:

 

I rarely pass a month without  diagnosing a case of supraventricular tachycardia (SVT)  which is a broad term for several cardiac arrythmia (heart arrythmia) Not all cases are directly attributed to consumption of energy drinks, some  are caused by other factors affecting the cardiac anatomy and physiology.

Some cases have a possible associated link with high energy drinks along with use of amphetamines, cocaine and  heroin  which have side effects of coronary artery spasm and inducing pre excitory arrythmias. See a few people who party hard with use of illicit substances and mix it up with energy drinks.

Have diagnosed  males and females from mid teens who have binged on energy drinks and  after taking a clinical history from the pt the consumption of the energy drink has been the only identifiable trigger factor, having ruled out other behavioral, biochemical, physiological factors.

Quite a few years ago I worked in coronary intensive care and for a large part of me life I ate, slept and breathed the heart. Saw and managed many cases of SVT from energy drink abuse. Frightening for the individual having your heart beating out of your chest among other symptoms. Have had to result in shocking (cardioversion) individuals when all other guidance measures have failed. 

Saw individuals who would return for treatment and management for months and years with paroxysmal SVT who were a first presentation SVT from energy drink abuse.

Caffeine in energy drinks  affects the body in many ways, caffeine is an agonist and increases adrenaline (enepherine) noradrenaline and dopamine production increasing your heart rate, increasing your blood pressure, increasing your heart muscle contractile output. Your heart can do that through every now and then without concern but constant production of these is not good for your good ol body!

atb

7diaw

 

 

Well that should be drummed into kids at school, its all well and good people saying about the nanny state, but what chance have kids future health got if this is the way things are going

This could also play a part in the number of people who die young whilst doing sports?

[Old farrier]

Or the parents could give them a breakfast and a packed lunch to take to school instead of buying them the energy drink 

lets be aware that if they need energy it’s because they are lacking something 

the correct food and or the correct amount of sleep 

dont know many kids that earn enough money to buy them daily so perhaps they should have there allowance reduced 

just my thoughts 

 

no need to ban something when realistically it’s a lifestyle change that’s required 

all the best 

of 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, Old farrier said:

Or the parents could give them a breakfast and a packed lunch to take to school instead of buying them the energy drink 

lets be aware that if they need energy it’s because they are lacking something 

the correct food and or the correct amount of sleep 

dont know many kids that earn enough money to buy them daily so perhaps they should have there allowance reduced 

just my thoughts 

 

no need to ban something when realistically it’s a lifestyle change that’s required 

all the best 

of 

You are of course quite correct, but it will have at least had the oxygen of publicity to hopefully reduce the amount of dependence on this stuff.

[Danger-Mouse]

20 hours ago, Mice! said:

 

For my kids fizzy drink is an occasional treat if were out some place.

So, basically some good parenting and discipline.

13 hours ago, Hamster said:

Why even try to address a problem that is known to be causing problems, ?  lets just do nothing about anything that may help future society. How bizarre that even when they try and fix something as plainly stupid as ludicrous amounts of sugar and other unnecessary elements in our diets people moan about the "nanny" state. 

See below.

9 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I think a lot of you are missing the point.
How can you ban one drink because it has too much sugar in it, and not another that has more, just because its not promoted as an energy drink?

Likewise ,how can you say a drink has too much caffeine in it, when drinks like coffee have more?

People are talking about drinking 5 cans of monster and having palpitations, hardly surprising, try drinking 5 cups of strong coffee, you will get exactly the same effect.
Caffeine in excess has been known to kill.
We know sugar in excess is bad for you, weve known for many years it causes diabetes and heart problems, so are we going to ban everything with sugar in it ?
Asking for ID to prove you are 18+ to buy a can of pop , really ?

Good post.

 

[hambone]

5 hours ago, Mungler said:

The last energy drink I had was in 2013.

It was a super hot summer's day, an early start to a very stressful day and all I had had was a large coffee for breakfast topped off with a red bull at lunchtime - that was the first time I suffered from AF.

The thing about AF is once you open the door to it, you then become susceptible to it.

I now don't drink coffee beyond mid day, won't touch an energy drink and am mindful to try and drink more water (dehydration is another trigger).

There is no way kids should be smashing that stuff down their necks like fizzy pop. 

Excuse my ignorance but what is 'AF'?

[wascal]

1 hour ago, hambone said:

Excuse my ignorance but what is 'AF'?

Atrial Fribrillation  ?

an irregular and often fast heart rhythm

[7daysinaweek]

5 hours ago, Mice! said:

Well that should be drummed into kids at school, its all well and good people saying about the nanny state, but what chance have kids future health got if this is the way things are going

This could also play a part in the number of people who die young whilst doing sports?

Hi Mice

The first article which was published in the journal of cardiology in 2017 shows the incidence of risk in relation of consumption of energy drinks and Long qt syndrome (LQTS) The second article discusses the correlation between LQTS and sudden cardiac death in exercise giving support to your observation.

 

https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/caution-energy-drinks-put-individuals-with-genetic-heart-condition-at-risk

 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2014/01/04/understanding-long-qt-syndrome-a-cause-of-sudden-cardiac-death-in-athletes/

 

atb

7diaw

[team tractor]

My kids schools have parent pay so you can monitor all the kids eat and drink in school as it’s on a card . It’s a great idea and you’ve no need to give them cash so it can’t go on rubbish like this.

[hambone]

10 hours ago, wascal said:

Atrial Fribrillation  ?

an irregular and often fast heart rhythm

Thanks for that ?

[12gauge82]

16 hours ago, 7daysinaweek said:

 

I rarely pass a month without  diagnosing a case of supraventricular tachycardia (SVT)  which is a broad term for several cardiac arrythmia (heart arrythmia) Not all cases are directly attributed to consumption of energy drinks, some  are caused by other factors affecting the cardiac anatomy and physiology.

Some cases have a possible associated link with high energy drinks along with use of amphetamines, cocaine and  heroin  which have side effects of coronary artery spasm and inducing pre excitory arrythmias. See a few people who party hard with use of illicit substances and mix it up with energy drinks.

Have diagnosed  males and females from mid teens who have binged on energy drinks and  after taking a clinical history from the pt the consumption of the energy drink has been the only identifiable trigger factor, having ruled out other behavioral, biochemical, physiological factors.

Quite a few years ago I worked in coronary intensive care and for a large part of me life I ate, slept and breathed the heart. Saw and managed many cases of SVT from energy drink abuse. Frightening for the individual having your heart beating out of your chest among other symptoms. Have had to result in shocking (cardioversion) individuals when all other guidance measures have failed. 

Saw individuals who would return for treatment and management for months and years with paroxysmal SVT who were a first presentation SVT from energy drink abuse.

Caffeine in energy drinks  affects the body in many ways, caffeine is an agonist and increases adrenaline (enepherine) noradrenaline and dopamine production increasing your heart rate, increasing your blood pressure, increasing your heart muscle contractile output. Your heart can do that through every now and then without concern but constant production of these is not good for your good ol body!

atb

7diaw

 

 

Really interesting post and obviously coming from someone who knows what they're talking about, it has changed my mind, while I knew they weren't good for you, I had no idea they could be that dangerous.

[7daysinaweek]

40 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Really interesting post and obviously coming from someone who knows what they're talking about, it has changed my mind, while I knew they weren't good for you, I had no idea they could be that dangerous.

Cheers 12G.

 

I would think that the proposed ban on energy drinks is targeted at the younger age group who may be more socially influenced in consumption of these products. Like many substances that are consumed  on a daily basis they can result in long term affects on the body. Alcohol can contribute towards the development of high blood pressure but access to alcohol is limited to under 18 within the high street. Energy drinks are accessible at a much earlier age and twinned with the high sugar content which increase risk of weight gain, increasing risk of developing high blood pressure, the caffeine also increasing the risk of developing high blood pressure.  Non diabetes hyperglycemia (high blood sugar) is a known risk factor for coronary disease, cardiac events and increased risk of diabetes.

Coronary heart disease and stroke are the single largest factor to worldwide morbidity and mortality.

These proposals trickle down from the word health authority. (WHO)

I was speaking to a friend and colleague last year who works in research around high blood pressure and the developing evidence for coronary  disease and diabetes in younger populations is frightening. I see and understand the  physiological, emotional, economic and financial costs associated to morbidity  and mortality on a daily basis and the difficulty and misery that poor health brings.

Financial costings for a single individual can run from tens of thousands over a lifetime to over a million pounds. These are not made up numbers I can assure you.

How do you change an individual, how do you change society.? When i tell a person that the reason that they are having palpitations is from them snorting cocaine and that they are at risk of a heart attack or dying after explaining the side affects from the substance it does appear with some individuals to hit home. Other individuals do not want to know the risks and just want sorting out, others don't even want sorting out and will continue to abuse said products.

The WHO it is about, education, giving people choices, modifying lifestyle thus reducing risks where is possible. For the government they do like the revenue, booze and fags bring in a lot of dosh.

For me it is all about moderation and I do like a beer every now and again.

Now where is me bacon butty!

atb

7diaw

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, 7daysinaweek said:

Cheers 12G.

 

I would think that the proposed ban on energy drinks is targeted at the younger age group who may be more socially influenced in consumption of these products. Like many substances that are consumed  on a daily basis they can result in long term affects on the body. Alcohol can contribute towards the development of high blood pressure but access to alcohol is limited to under 18 within the high street. Energy drinks are accessible at a much earlier age and twinned with the high sugar content which increase risk of weight gain, increasing risk of developing high blood pressure, the caffeine also increasing the risk of developing high blood pressure.  Non diabetes hyperglycemia (high blood sugar) is a known risk factor for coronary disease, cardiac events and increased risk of diabetes.

Coronary heart disease and stroke are the single largest factor to worldwide morbidity and mortality.

These proposals trickle down from the word health authority. (WHO)

I was speaking to a friend and colleague last year who works in research around high blood pressure and the developing evidence for coronary  disease and diabetes in younger populations is frightening. I see and understand the  physiological, emotional, economic and financial costs associated to morbidity  and mortality on a daily basis and the difficulty and misery that poor health brings.

Financial costings for a single individual can run from tens of thousands over a lifetime to over a million pounds. These are not made up numbers I can assure you.

How do you change an individual, how do you change society.? When i tell a person that the reason that they are having palpitations is from them snorting cocaine and that they are at risk of a heart attack or dying after explaining the side affects from the substance it does appear with some individuals to hit home. Other individuals do not want to know the risks and just want sorting out, others don't even want sorting out and will continue to abuse said products.

The WHO it is about, education, giving people choices, modifying lifestyle thus reducing risks where is possible. For the government they do like the revenue, booze and fags bring in a lot of dosh.

For me it is all about moderation and I do like a beer every now and again.

Now where is me bacon butty!

atb

7diaw

I wont question your medical insights into it, its all very informative.
But my point was, people talking about bans ect, seem to think that ends their responsibility, somehow fixes the problem ?
Most high st supermarkets have stopped selling so called energy drinks to u16s some time ago, not via law, but via choice.
Do you really believe extending the ban and making it law, will have much effect ?
What about over 18s, will we have to cap how many you can buy, in case they over do themselves, or sell them to minors ?
If this stuff is so harmful, why not ban it outright ?

Can we stop people from buying and enjoying the things they like ?
Will it stop childhood obesity if we get rid of all sugary drinks, then we move onto sweets ,cakes ?
It gets to the point where we think we are doing something positive, but in reality we are just sweeping the dust under the carpet.

You bring up valid points about changing peoples lifestyle, but I think the medical profession needs to make itself a bit louder when it comes to stuff like this.
Lobby the government to do more when it comes to advertising, tax the stuff to death, like they have done with cigarettes, and are about to do with alcohol.
The NHS is groaning under the weight of peoples lifestyle choices, literally !
 

[Mungler]

On 31/08/2018 at 18:08, 7daysinaweek said:

 

I rarely pass a month without  diagnosing a case of supraventricular tachycardia (SVT)  which is a broad term for several cardiac arrythmia (heart arrythmia) Not all cases are directly attributed to consumption of energy drinks, some  are caused by other factors affecting the cardiac anatomy and physiology.

Some cases have a possible associated link with high energy drinks along with use of amphetamines, cocaine and  heroin  which have side effects of coronary artery spasm and inducing pre excitory arrythmias. See a few people who party hard with use of illicit substances and mix it up with energy drinks.

Have diagnosed  males and females from mid teens who have binged on energy drinks and  after taking a clinical history from the pt the consumption of the energy drink has been the only identifiable trigger factor, having ruled out other behavioral, biochemical, physiological factors.

Quite a few years ago I worked in coronary intensive care and for a large part of me life I ate, slept and breathed the heart. Saw and managed many cases of SVT from energy drink abuse. Frightening for the individual having your heart beating out of your chest among other symptoms. Have had to result in shocking (cardioversion) individuals when all other guidance measures have failed. 

Saw individuals who would return for treatment and management for months and years with paroxysmal SVT who were a first presentation SVT from energy drink abuse.

Caffeine in energy drinks  affects the body in many ways, caffeine is an agonist and increases adrenaline (enepherine) noradrenaline and dopamine production increasing your heart rate, increasing your blood pressure, increasing your heart muscle contractile output. Your heart can do that through every now and then without concern but constant production of these is not good for your good ol body!

atb

7diaw

 

 

 

Great post.

Always interesting to hear from those in the know.