20g VS 12g

[Blacknsilver]

Looking for my first shotgun as explained in another post and the 20g was mentioned. 

After a quick search a thread came up with quite a few raving about the 20g after realising its doing the business as much as the 12g can. 

The matcho card gets played. 12g for girls and women..

What’s the latest verdict? 

Sorry if this is a subject that’s been hammered. 

[JRDS]

If you do more walking than shooting buy a 20 bore.  If you drive to your peg or walk to it with your gun in a slip buy a 12 bore.

[wymberley]

Like anything to do with shotguns, any answer to your question can only be a guide at best as there are too many unknowns and too many variables. Are you going to consistantly ever need and shoot any more than a 30 gram load? If you take that 30g as 1&1/16 oz - or even 28g as one ounce - it's very firmly down to the individual shooter - then the tried and tested 96:1 ratio of gun weight to cartridge load is worthy of consideration. Some are bound to disagree and they cannot be faulted for doing so but it just brings the discussion nicely back to my first sentence.

In short, you are the person best placed to answer the question being the one who actually has to use the gun. Just resign yourself to the fact that like the rest of us, you're probably going to get it wrong at first. However, it's worth noting that if you do get it wrong, you can put a smaller load in a bigger gun but you can't put a bigger................

[AYA117]

8 minutes ago, wymberley said:

you can put a smaller load in a bigger gun but you can't put a bigger................

And that is the answer really, I shot a 20bore for years and now it lives the cabinet and has done for over 20 years. Better to have one gun that can do all rather than keep changing guns, even more so when you first start shooting.

[Walker570]

Buy a 410 and learn to shoot straight.

[johnphilip]

If your shooting lots of clays , the 20g costs more .

[Ultrastu]

Generally a 20b will be a bit lighter than the equivalent 12b .

A 20 b can shoot loads up to 32 grm the 12 b more 44 g ? ..   28 grm is generally considered enough  lead in the air for everything except goose  (and they need steel / lead free  anyway ) .

People say 12b carts are cheaper than 20b . But if you look at say jist cartridges web site .you will see that all the quality carts .tend to be the same price irrespective of cal .even in 28 b .

Its just that there are more budget carts (not as good )sold in 12 b and these are cheaper. 

Id say if you are gonna shoot a normal cart of 30 grm and carry your gun into the field (and boxes of carts ) and would like a gun that can swing fast buy a 20b .

[Blacknsilver]

 

has some interesting points. 

[Robertt]

i once owner a  6-1/2 lb, 20g O/U which, I used exclusively for 3 years and it was a very good all rounder.

Never felt under gunned but using 28g loads,which is a 12g load anyway, I wouldnt.

So, if I was an O/U fan and wanted a lightweight all rounder I would go for the 20g.

Having seen the light and left the Darkside, I now have 2 x, 12g, 6-1/2 lb ish , S x S' s which do the same as the above but with much more style and joy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Robertt

[The Burpster]

Ultrastu has basically confirmed what I stated in your other post. The video above is OK but he ‘guessed” what choke was in the 20g.... that’s not a fair comparison unless they are using exactly the same choke and he didn’t know. ?

i can assure from the patterning I have done with my 20g guns in the past, with a 28g skeet load (#9) shot, the pattern was pretty mush exactly the same as the equivalent cartridge in 12g at 25 yds. As a generalisation 20g cartridges (certainly the Italian ones) tend to be a little quicker (muzzle velocity) than their 12g equivalent and ultimately if you are putting it against an animal, it doesn’t care if the shot comes from a 12 or 20g. 

I won’t bore you with the ballistics but simply put once the pellets are beyond around 15m from the muzzle the choke has done its job and, the pellets take on a trajectory of their own depending on how well they made and how much damage they sustained in being fired. 

There is a lot of prejudice in the shotgun world as there is in the air rifle world. I have never been bothered with convention or fashion in my hobbies so if it works for me I let my results speak for themselves......

 

[Newbie to this]

You can always ask him if he found out what choke it was he is on this forum

[wymberley]

21 minutes ago, The Burpster said:

Ultrastu has basically confirmed what I stated in your other post. The video above is OK but he ‘guessed” what choke was in the 20g.... that’s not a fair comparison unless they are using exactly the same choke and he didn’t know. ?

i can assure from the patterning I have done with my 20g guns in the past, with a 28g skeet load (#9) shot, the pattern was pretty mush exactly the same as the equivalent cartridge in 12g at 25 yds. As a generalisation 20g cartridges (certainly the Italian ones) tend to be a little quicker (muzzle velocity) than their 12g equivalent and ultimately if you are putting it against an animal, it doesn’t care if the shot comes from a 12 or 20g. 

I won’t bore you with the ballistics but simply put once the pellets are beyond around 15m from the muzzle the choke has done its job and, the pellets take on a trajectory of their own depending on how well they made and how much damage they sustained in being fired. 

There is a lot of prejudice in the shotgun world as there is in the air rifle world. I have never been bothered with convention or fashion in my hobbies so if it works for me I let my results speak for themselves......

 

That is very interesting and I've not heard of it before. I won't ask you to explain the ballistics, but if you have a info' link, that would be great. What you say would go some way in explaining what I have found to be the case except the distance I've used when playing is 20 yards - we're lalking just 3.5 yards difference. One advantage of this immedoately springs to mind. If you call 15 metres 16 yards then one could check gun fit and choke performance all at once.

[The Burpster]

My recollection is from reading Understanding Firearms ballistics by Robert A Rinker. He writes a Chapter about shotgun ballistics which are quite unique in the firearm world as they are many small (roughly) spherical projectiles, fired without spin and influenced by many internal ballistics. Shotgun pellets are not aerodynamic bullets spun up to induce stability, they are roughly round that easily and do get deformed by firing and going through a choke which means they often bind together in clumps and rarely fly in straight lines. 

It’s a heavy read but really interesting if you wish to expand your understanding of firearm ballistics! 

Edited September 1, 2018 by The Burpster
Typo

[Salop Matt]

Owning both I feel that if you only had one gun I would go for 12bore. I love my 20 but I don't shoot as much with it as my 12.

ATB

Matt

[Lloyd90]

Just buy a 12 Bore game gun if you want it a bit lighter. 

[motty]

14 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Generally a 20b will be a bit lighter than the equivalent 12b .

A 20 b can shoot loads up to 32 grm the 12 b more 44 g ? ..   28 grm is generally considered enough  lead in the air for everything except goose  (and they need steel / lead free  anyway ) .

People say 12b carts are cheaper than 20b . But if you look at say jist cartridges web site .you will see that all the quality carts .tend to be the same price irrespective of cal .even in 28 b .

Its just that there are more budget carts (not as good )sold in 12 b and these are cheaper. 

Id say if you are gonna shoot a normal cart of 30 grm and carry your gun into the field (and boxes of carts ) and would like a gun that can swing fast buy a 20b .

I would disagree with a bit of this.

A 2 1/4 oz load in lead is about as much as you will find in a 3 1/2" chambered 12, and about an 1 7/8 oz load  in a 3".

A budget cartridge can be every bit as good as a more expensive one.

There are many 12s than can be swung fast enough.

 

[ehb102]

If you shoot a 12G on clays for a couple of years you will have saved enough money on cartridges to buy a 20G. That's if you buy cheap cartridges, obviously. 

[getthegat]

For me I think it's all in the perception of the guns capabilities. Obviously in the right hands any gun will and does do the job ( as shown by the many YouTube videos) and each one has its limitations. The word "little" is often added when talking about guns smaller than a 12; "I was out with my little 410 ratting yesterday" or "I think I'll use the little 20 over that laid patch of barley" My late Uncle had an old single barrel 12 bore with a 34" barrel, it felt big and the expectations were the same, yet it's shear size and single shot were it's limitations. I'm sure in the same hide on the same day, someone with a semi auto 20 bore would drop a lot more birds. I know a certain M.Y. who writes in shooting mags, favours long barrels, saying the swing and follow through is what he prefers, but in a tight hide, would that be the best option? A 28" barrel is possibly about the most common length and for some reason I see many 20 bores with 26", for me this immediately makes it a little gun with limitations less than a 12 and yet with the same cartridges I'm sure the 20 would hold its own and possibly turn out to be great fun, with less recoil and easier on the weight of kit we all have to carry. Our own brain may be what makes us choose one gun over another, as confidence in your kit is key. Why do we all have off days, when we can't hit the side of a barn, it's not that someone has secretly bent the barrel or the cartridge has a different load than written on it, no it's because of stress at work, an argument with the wife, lack of money to replace the broken boiler at home; your mind is elsewhere so your shooting suffers. Buy and use what ever gun you have confidence in I say, and why not use more than one gun, challenge yourself a little now and then, it's fun and you can always go back to "old faithful"

Edited September 2, 2018 by getthegat
Change spelling

[The Burpster]

Getthegat that’s spot on buddy! So much in shooting is about trends, fashion and stereotypes. 

Just look at Bullpups in the airgun world, AR15 (&clones) in cf world. All “emporers clothes’ if you ask me but then it makes many colours to make a picture and if they float someone’s boat then fine. I have been labelled and stereotyped all my adult life so I really do not care what others preconceptions of me are when I turn up at the clay ground with something different to them. They soon scurry off or want to to talk when I shoot 23+ on the skeet range, or put cloverleaf groups together at the rifle range, or god forbid do a quick, no penalty run at PSG or 3gun. 

Sometimes it’s more fun to defy convention than run with the herds. 

[snow white]

Go for what you are happy with i only use 20 bore myself when i know i am on a high bird day i use black gold in 32 gram 4s.

[Scully]

Nephew showed me his brand new 20 bore Browning yesterday. Lovely piece of kit; 30 “ barrels, black actioned with a couple of good inlaid partridge and POW stock. Very very nice. Brownings and Mirokus always come up well for me; looking forward to having a shot or two with it this season. 

[Stonepark]

On 01/09/2018 at 07:47, Blacknsilver said:

Looking for my first shotgun as explained in another post and the 20g was mentioned. 

After a quick search a thread came up with quite a few raving about the 20g after realising its doing the business as much as the 12g can. 

The matcho card gets played. 12g for girls and women..

What’s the latest verdict? 

Sorry if this is a subject that’s been hammered. 

It is all about limitations, the 20 bore (or 410 in my case) simply hit their limits earlier but within their limits there is little difference between them.if you are into your rifles, 12 bore is a 308, 20 bore a 243 and 410 a 22 hornet.

12 bore is the standard and most flexible (21g to 50g with a 3 inch chamber reaching out to 60 yards max) but as most manufactuers can only guess their final use are also the heaviest to give them that flexibility.

20 bore is less (21g to 36g with a 3 inch chamber reaching out to 50 yards max) and gun weight reflects this but can still do 85% of what the 12 bore does on a day to day basis but that missing 15% can be important if you are into wildfowling or extremely high (50 yards plus) pheasants but in reality you can shoot at 99% of birds the 12 bore can.

410 is even less (9g to 21g reaching out to 35 yards max) and can do 55% of what the 12 bore can do but as most shooting is within 25 yards to 35 yards that 55% is not the greatest disadvantage as in reality you can shoot at 90% of birds offered.

 

Worth keeping in mind that sub 30 yards it doesn't matter what you shoot with, any of the above bores will definately kill the target.

 

[getthegat]

I was in a pretty low place for the last few years and at this time was telling myself I needed a Hushpower. I wanted to get away from my problems but didn't want people to know I was out shooting. Consequently with the heavy, somewhat strange new gun and first ever 20 bore, my days went from bad to worst. Many days I was getting 1 hit out of 5 shots, even cartridge costs started creeping into my list of stresses. Then a shoulder impingement brought on by my emotional state, forced me back to old faithful, my Franchi Affinity 12. Life has improved recently and my hit percentage has improved massively, as yesterday proved getting 11 kills from 13 shots with a gun I have only used a handful of times. I'm in the process of selling my main Hushpower, but with my new found confidence, am looking/considering buying a 20 guage semi auto, just for fun. I'm thinking of keeping it in the family and getting another Franchi, having the old 48AL and Affinity already. Anyone got a 20 bore semi to give review of or possibly for sale?

[The Burpster]

GTG you will be hard pushed to beat a Beretta 390 or 391 with 26or 28” barrel. Have had 5 different ones over the years and between that and the Benelli M2 they have been my favourite shotguns. Frequently for sale between 500-600, but a minter might cost a few bob more. 

Utterly reliable, parts are easily obtained and they are easy to strip and clean.  They handle like a dream. When I have a need for a 20g semi again that is where I will be looking. 

[getthegat]

Cool. Many thanks for the advice. Will take a gander at the Berretta.