old'un Posted December 8, 2018 Report Share Posted December 8, 2018 27 minutes ago, Scully said: There’s nothing to prevent that from happening anyhow as we don’t have to account for their useage, but I’m not sure there is a demand for .22lr ammo in the underworld, nor .243 cf. Even more illogically I am limited to 1000 rounds of .22lr but can buy thousands of shotgun cartridges and no one would ever know. That is a point I made earlier about shotgun cartridges and the unlimited amount you can buy and hold. So does anyone know why there’s such tight control on rifle ammo but not shotgun cartridges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted December 8, 2018 Report Share Posted December 8, 2018 44 minutes ago, old'un said: That is a point I made earlier about shotgun cartridges and the unlimited amount you can buy and hold. So does anyone know why there’s such tight control on rifle ammo but not shotgun cartridges? Can't say I know why section 2 ammo doesn't have similar controls as section 1, but I can't say that I've ever heard of anyone not being able to hold enough section 1 ammo to serve their needs. I've never run out of any, come close but that was because a rfd couldn't be bothered to order what I wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted December 8, 2018 Report Share Posted December 8, 2018 On 07/12/2018 at 10:23, hawkfanz said: now thats tough,,but merseyside along with some other forces have stated they intend to do unanounced spot checks on firearms holders.so beware guys. Yeah! like they have got the manpower to do that. Anyway, if you were on the wrong side of your allowance for what ever reason it wouldn't be hard to stash it away somewhere, spread it around your mates or whatever. Not saying you should or advocating its a good idea but making criminals out of idiots is just point scoring. A warning would have sufficed but as he was a magistrate maybe there was a hidden agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted December 8, 2018 Report Share Posted December 8, 2018 6 hours ago, Scully said: There’s nothing to prevent that from happening anyhow as we don’t have to account for their useage, but I’m not sure there is a demand for .22lr ammo in the underworld, nor .243 cf. Even more illogically I am limited to 1000 rounds of .22lr but can buy thousands of shotgun cartridges and no one would ever know. I meant more so for centre fire rounds but logic says you couldn't go round buying 1000-1500 full bore rounds three or four times a week without raising suspicion. I'm pretty sure I read in Sporting Gun about some chap quite a while ago having his rimfire certificate withdrawn because they felt uncomfortable with the numbers of bullets he was buying and getting through. 6 hours ago, old'un said: That is a point I made earlier about shotgun cartridges and the unlimited amount you can buy and hold. So does anyone know why there’s such tight control on rifle ammo but not shotgun cartridges? Lethality over longer range is my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartyboy Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Hamster said: 14 hours ago, old'un said: So does anyone know why there’s such tight control on rifle ammo but not shotgun cartridges? Lethality over longer range is my guess. That is part of the reason but the main reason is simpler. The law makers, as usual, made the laws to suit themselves. In this case the MPs were mostly aristocracy who shot game, sometimes in vast numbers. They did not want to trouble themselves with having to purchase cartridges, so the laws were written that it was to allow anyone to be able to purchase cartridges with written permission from a certificate holder and a copy of their certificate. Also there is no need for a certificate to be in possession. This meant they could send Jeeves away to the local hardware shop to stock up. Or to bring more cartridges out to the shoot if it was a particularly good day and they had ran out of cartridges. Dont know why they've not changed the law though, especially as the shotgun has probably been the most criminally mis used weapon over the years, until recently anyway. Edited December 9, 2018 by stuartyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manthing Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 On 07/12/2018 at 18:06, old'un said: I know…rules are rules and all that but why not apply the same rules to shotgun ammo? Is it something to do with the usage?Clay shooters can go through 1000's of carts a week, my highest is about 500 in a week and I don't shoot competitively. That would be an administrative nightmare given the number of competitive shooters there are, the police can't keep up with the workload now, never mind checking that as well. If a rifle barrel was used like that how long would it last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 13 hours ago, Hamster said: I'm pretty sure I read in Sporting Gun about some chap quite a while ago having his rimfire certificate withdrawn because they felt uncomfortable with the numbers of bullets he was buying and getting through. Really? I can only wonder why the same didn't happen to me and a mate some years back then, as one dealer asked if we were eating the stuff! I'm assuming licensing saw his records, and I'm pretty sure there isn't a limit to the amount you can shoot. If licensing authorities felt that uncomfortable then it's just as well we don't need a permit to buy shotgun cartridges; I get through thousands upon thousands a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 14 hours ago, Hamster said: logic says you couldn't go round buying 1000-1500 full bore rounds three or four times a week without raising suspicion. At over £1 a round, it's not just logic that's saying that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) On 08/12/2018 at 16:50, old'un said: That is a point I made earlier about shotgun cartridges and the unlimited amount you can buy and hold. So does anyone know why there’s such tight control on rifle ammo but not shotgun cartridges? When firearms licencing was introduced in 1927 it was because the Government feared the rise in the Trade Unions (which were run by Communists) calling for revolution. It had happened in Russia, it nearly happened in Germany, and they saw the writing on the wall. They set out to limit the supply of rifle and pistol and their ammo to keep a record of purchases so the revolutionaries couldn't stockpile weapons for an uprising. They didn't feel shotguns would be a threat to soldiers or police armed with .303s Firearms legislation has nothing to do with preventing crime as is widely supposed. Edited December 9, 2018 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Call me old fashioned but why always a kick back by some who think it ok to exceed certificate limits? No mention here but It says his guns and ticket gone, not just a fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 On 09/12/2018 at 05:12, stuartyboy said: The law makers, as usual, made the laws to suit themselves. In this case the MPs were mostly aristocracy who shot game, sometimes in vast numbers. They did not want to trouble themselves with having to purchase cartridges, so the laws were written that it was to allow anyone to be able to purchase cartridges with written permission from a certificate holder and a copy of their certificate. Also there is no need for a certificate to be in possession. This meant they could send Jeeves away to the local hardware shop to stock up. Or to bring more cartridges out to the shoot if it was a particularly good day and they had ran out of cartridges. To be honest, Im struggling with that as a reason for the limit. Doesnt really make sense. 12 hours ago, Vince Green said: When firearms licencing was introduced in 1927 it was because the Government feared the rise in the Trade Unions (which were run by Communists) calling for revolution. It had happened in Russia, it nearly happened in Germany, and they saw the writing on the wall. They set out to limit the supply of rifle and pistol and their ammo to keep a record of purchases so the revolutionaries couldn't stockpile weapons for an uprising. Although thats true about the fear of uprising, did we even have limits on ammo back in those days ? Was firearm ownership as tightly controlled ? This is interesting reading. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7056245.stm What about reloading too, Im sure its not a new practice, how would the state control that? I know you have limits on assembled cartridges , but if the use is illicit, what then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 i have heard whispers that in the near future there are plans to limit the amount of shotgun cartridges you can buy/hold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricko Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 On 07/12/2018 at 12:38, 7daysinaweek said: HI HF I recall this from a few months back. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsliverpool/security-fears-lead-to-two-gun-dealers-losing-sales-permits/ar-AAAbAzN atb 7diaw Was one of these dealers, that got closed down, in Formby perchance?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 On 11/12/2018 at 11:30, andrewluke said: i have heard whispers that in the near future there are plans to limit the amount of shotgun cartridges you can buy/hold Technically they can do that now through fire regs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 On 07/12/2018 at 11:54, Jongwe said: Yeah - in the absence of a warrant for which they need reason, they can be invited in by yourself. However not sure if your refusal to allow them entry could give them "reason". There’s absolutely no way that they can state that they have probable cause / a reason to force entry into your home, because you state that you don’t want them to come in without a legal reason to do so with a warrant. People need to stop letting the Police walk all over them. They make up the rules as they go along and are as accountable as any other public body. Tell them to come back with a warrant if they want to do a search. Just because you have a legally held shotgun or firearm does not give them the right to turn up whenever they like and start going through your home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7daysinaweek Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 12 hours ago, Ricko said: Was one of these dealers, that got closed down, in Formby perchance?? Not sure Ricko the only gun shop I know of in Formby is the Centrevine. I heard on the grapevine that a few had been acting outside their conditions so action was rightfully taken. atb 7diaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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