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Graham M

Are side by side guns obsolete

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    7 hours ago, MrPhantom said:

    I hope you’re right although I haven’t noticed the cartridge companies expanding their range. I shoot clays with a mate (he uses a 16g, me a 12g) and we both take regularly take our side by sides for a bit of fun. Try getting a 65mm Clay cartridge for a 16g! I think Hull do one but at double the price of 12g. To be honest I’d love a 16g but cost is prohibitive for me at the moment.

    The 16g was and is primarily a game gun and there;s ample choice of game loads although Hull have some clay carts

    But the main stream of clay shooters use 12g   and some 20g so the cartridge companies follow this trend

    It would'nt be viable for them to bring out loads of 16g clay loads  Hull do a 24gramme 16g fibre 7.5 67mm

    home loads would be an option

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    2 hours ago, Scully said:

    Admittedly I have tried to get used to double triggers, but I’m always caught out, and unless I use a second finger for that second trigger I have to shift my grip; none of the above feels natural to me unfortunately. The AYA I had with semi pistol grip was a distinct improvement as all others I’ve try feel too slim and too short I’m afraid. 

    There are some beautiful examples out there however ( I was handling one such example yesterday ) and would suggest they are as subject to all fashion trends as anything else, and have no doubt they will enjoy a resurgence again sometime. Out of fashion perhaps, obsolete, absolutely not. 

    I went from shooting right handed to left handed and I am convinced the fundamental design of a double trigger side by side was meant to be shot left handed. The positioning of the rear trigger to the left is so natural when shot from the left shoulder and very much more awkward from the right shoulder. It does seem to need a longer length of pull than a single trigger to work well though.

    The top lever also feels like something designed by a leftie. 

     

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    Scully if you persevere, your mind automatically knows that straight hand stock double trigger and you don't notice your hand slide back on the stock a little. Don't know if others slide their hands but I have to the get on the second trigger. I e been caught out when going back to my over and under,trying the pull the trigger guard for the second shot. It amused friends for quite a while as I start tugging harder and harder pushing the gun around and cursing the bluddy triggers stuck. Before realising and lowering the gun to chuckles and what he'll are you doing.

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    1 minute ago, figgy said:

    Don't know if others slide their hands but I have to the get on the second trigger.

    I'm not aware of moving my hand (though I may do so unconsciously?).  I shoot double trigger, straight hand in both s/s and o/u and have single trigger pistol grip in both o/u and s/s.  I prefer straight hand double trigger.  It is less 'cumbersome' feeling, but I should add that I have very small hands that are used to small delicate work.  Although all (but one) of the single triggers I have are 100% reliable and have good trigger pulls, I just prefer doubles.  One single trigger has about a 1 or 2% 'fail' rate - and has been to its maker's agent and 2 other very reputable 'proper' gun smiths, but remains slightly troublesome for unknown reasons.  It is mechanical (not recoil) and behaves 100% OK on snap caps, but fails very occasionally on live ammunition.  NOT operator error (freezing on trigger).

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    I suppose one can used to most things given time and practise, it's just I much more prefer my OU's rather than persevere with something I rarely use. A mate in the syndicate seems to shoot all manner of configurations well however, from his single trigger OU's to his beloved 16 bore live pigeon gun. This season he even brought his 20 bore treble barrelled thingy. 🙂

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    47 minutes ago, Wb123 said:

    I went from shooting right handed to left handed and I am convinced the fundamental design of a double trigger side by side was meant to be shot left handed. The positioning of the rear trigger to the left is so natural when shot from the left shoulder and very much more awkward from the right shoulder. It does seem to need a longer length of pull than a single trigger to work well though.

    The top lever also feels like something designed by a leftie. 

     

    Yes I'm a leftie and agree that it is very natural for me to move from the front to the rear trigger....👍

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    11 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

    Any chance of a photo of your Pape. I had a 16g Best quality boxlock Pape BLE built in 1901 and also another BLE built in 1911.

    No doubt that you have received details of your Pape from the current owner of the Pape records, Rodney Ford.

    OB

    Hi I sent photos of the Pape to a member here some time ago, I cant remember who now but an unfortunate  lightening strike finds me with a new computer which I have not been able to conquer sending e mails on as yet.  I have yet to suss out how to post pics on here.  PM me your  e mail and I shall have a try at sending Pape pics.

     

    Blackpowder

    6 hours ago, winnie&bezza said:

    You lucky lucky man

    Yes I know I am, took me  around 50 years or so but well worth the wait

     

    Blackpowder

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    I have been shopping around for 16g carts and can get them for around £7 a box. Not much different to a mid range clay load. 

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    24 minutes ago, Lord v said:

    I have been shopping around for 16g carts and can get them for around £7 a box. Not much different to a mid range clay load. 

    For a 12 that would be a lot; I'm currently paying £4.78 a box (£191 per 1000) for 12 bore clays loads (Hull Comp X 21g Fibre)

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    33 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

    For a 12 that would be a lot; I'm currently paying £4.78 a box (£191 per 1000) for 12 bore clays loads (Hull Comp X 21g Fibre)

    True. 12 is usually cheaper, especially clay loads . But I'm not finding the cost of the 16 too prohibitive. 

    Having said that 12g Fiocchi competition clay loads etc are around £7 a box. 

    Game loads (which is the 16s selling point) the differential between the two is probably less than a £1 on a box. 

    Finding a 28g 7.5 clay load in the 16 is a ball ache though. 

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    1 hour ago, Lord v said:

    True. 12 is usually cheaper, especially clay loads . But I'm not finding the cost of the 16 too prohibitive. 

    Having said that 12g Fiocchi competition clay loads etc are around £7 a box. 

    Game loads (which is the 16s selling point) the differential between the two is probably less than a £1 on a box. 

    Finding a 28g 7.5 clay load in the 16 is a ball ache though. 

    RC do a clay load 28g  7  plastic wad

    Saga do a 28g  7  £5.88 per box  £235  per 1000

    Edited by sabel25
    addad more info

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    Dibble has a point in respect of him fit, however most gun dealers sales of o/u will outstrip side by side sales by about 10:1. Small wonder that many don't like trading them in. Few nowadays are exclusively game shooters so the versatility (in general) of the o/u for game or clays has the greater appeal. Add the opportunity to change chokes at every stand,alter the adjustable comb, contend with only one trigger and put a range of pretty high velocity rockets through it appeals to the majority of modern shots.Ask a man to point at an object 40 yds away with a ruler and chances are he (or she) will turn it on its side. The pointability  of the o/u ensures it's dominance in the market. But I still love a good side by side 😊

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    11 hours ago, Foolofatook said:

    Dibble has a point in respect of him fit, however most gun dealers sales of o/u will outstrip side by side sales by about 10:1. Small wonder that many don't like trading them in. Few nowadays are exclusively game shooters so the versatility (in general) of the o/u for game or clays has the greater appeal. Add the opportunity to change chokes at every stand,alter the adjustable comb, contend with only one trigger and put a range of pretty high velocity rockets through it appeals to the majority of modern shots.Ask a man to point at an object 40 yds away with a ruler and chances are he (or she) will turn it on its side. The pointability  of the o/u ensures it's dominance in the market. But I still love a good side by side 😊

    The desire to find s technological answer to a problem (or fiddle around with stuff) seems a fundamental part of human (Male) nature, I know a Carp fisherman who has a 3000 pound Bait Boat, GPS controlled to deliver his hook and groundbait precisely  where he wants, it also has fish finding sonar. A golf playing colleague has a GPS watch that automatically tells him the precise distance to the nearest hole.

    I have the same tendency and went down the 30" multichoke sporter route and researched the advantages of 7.5 or 8 shot, thought maybe size 9 and open choke would help me on some stands I should buy a box of those as well, a green glowing bead might help.......maybe fix a GoPro to the barrel.........Some Yellow Glasses.........Extended Choke Tubes....

    Of course this gives Gun Dealers a lot of other Stuff to sell.

    The joy of a nice SxS is you just pick it up and shoot it, your only choice is what trigger to pull first, I came of some stands on Sunday grinning, generally the short range, fast moving ones.

    If you know where the clay is coming from and going to heavy O/Us have the advantage and people seem to call No Bird if its slightly off line, I have a crack at them.

    I miss a lot on the more "Aimed" stands, but feel I miss with style.

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    6 hours ago, Dibble said:

    The desire to find s technological answer to a problem (or fiddle around with stuff) seems a fundamental part of human (Male) nature, I know a Carp fisherman who has a 3000 pound Bait Boat, GPS controlled to deliver his hook and groundbait precisely  where he wants, it also has fish finding sonar. A golf playing colleague has a GPS watch that automatically tells him the precise distance to the nearest hole.

    I have the same tendency and went down the 30" multichoke sporter route and researched the advantages of 7.5 or 8 shot, thought maybe size 9 and open choke would help me on some stands I should buy a box of those as well, a green glowing bead might help.......maybe fix a GoPro to the barrel.........Some Yellow Glasses.........Extended Choke Tubes....

    Of course this gives Gun Dealers a lot of other Stuff to sell.

    The joy of a nice SxS is you just pick it up and shoot it, your only choice is what trigger to pull first, I came of some stands on Sunday grinning, generally the short range, fast moving ones.

    If you know where the clay is coming from and going to heavy O/Us have the advantage and people seem to call No Bird if its slightly off line, I have a crack at them.

    I miss a lot on the more "Aimed" stands, but feel I miss with style.

    Its draught horses v thoroughbreds really ! Totall get your point !!!

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    2 minutes ago, matone said:

    Its draught horses v thoroughbreds really ! Totall get your point !!!

    I too like Dibble's posts.

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    I like a good sxs, I just much prefer the looks and shootability of a fixed choke OU over that of a fixed choke sxs. A single trigger with the option of which barrel to shoot first on either game or clays, and even less to think about if both barrels are choked the same.  

    The ou has gained in popularity to the detriment of the sxs for a reason, it is a matter of opinion what those reasons are. 

     

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