hod Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Is there a definitive answer to this - I see it mentioned very frequently that older Berettas are better (more reliable etc etc) than the newer crop of silver pigeons that are (if I am correct) factory made. Is there a particular year that this changed (presumably the place/method of manufacture)? Please correct me if I’ve misunderstood on any point. I ask out of curiosity as last year I picked up a used 2014 32” sporter that is spot on in every way, but always wondered what the difference was to older guns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 I think the newer models (which apparently weren’t as good) began around 2005 or 2006 roughly but sure someone will be along shortly to let us know?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 They were good up until at least 1997/98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiffy Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 I heard the same when I was offered an older beretta, I had real concerns about buying a mid eighties gun over something newer which was a similar price... I posted on here at the time and so many people told me the same thing... buy the older one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 I may well be wrong, and having only ever bought two Berettas ( the first being about 1997 ) I seem to recall problems starting with the release of their 692 model, regarding poor finish etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 I just joined the old Beretta club. Picked up a 1983 685e yesterday. Love the styling. Fixed choke 1/4 and half (what more do you need 90% of the time) . Extractors (but having shot my a lot sxs recently haven't really missed ejectors). 2 3/4 chambers (would have preferred 3, but hey.) Under £400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Very good value! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimo22 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 I have a 1984 Beretta 696s which has had thousands of shots through it and still works fine. Only problem not steel proved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 31 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Very good value! It will need a new top lever spring in the next few years (it's very much left leaning; not quite a full corbyn, but close) and the barrels could do with stripping and rebluing, again not urgent. (will be off to Bromley barrels soon anyway). I'm pretty chuffed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, Stimo22 said: I have a 1984 Beretta 696s which has had thousands of shots through it and still works fine. Only problem not steel proved Are you sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Stimo22 said: I have a 1984 Beretta 696s which has had thousands of shots through it and still works fine. Only problem not steel proved my old 1964 Beretta is marked with "superior proof" barrels [whatever that means] and ive used steel through it without ill effect but it is very open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) My only experience is that I have a 1986 Beretta S687 20g in almost unshot condition. I also have similar condition 1991 S687 12g Both guns are multi choke. I know that the S687 was introduced early 1980s as fixed choke and multi choke was available around 1986, Note that although both these guns have a small silver pigeon on the top lever. THEY ARE NOT A 687 SILVER PIGEON Just a S687 not a 687S I believe the Silver pigeon came along 1999 and I have heard that's where things started to deteriorate but that is only rumour the rest is fact, The build and fit on both these guns is superb to say the least. Edited February 17, 2019 by DUNKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shalfordninja33 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 I have a 1989 686 onyx. I bought it from my uncle in the late 90s. It has the worn but cared for look these days, the blueing is worn and has a slight patina on the action. Looks all the better for it in my view. It just feels right. I took it to a local gun shop yesterday along with another gun that I was using as a trade in, I was heading out roost shooting straight after, the dealer was more interested in whether or not I was prepared to part with the onyx! The golden era of berettas in his words. For me it’s a lifer, I bought it in my late teens, I’m 42 now and it’s not going anywhere. It’s had one service in that time and been faultless. It will see a little less use in future as I’ve just ordered a 690 field in 20bore for my driven shooting. But for engaging high roosting pigeons and corvids of an evening it will definitely get a run out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 The 687 was about the age when they started to change. Each model after that was undercut by the accountants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hod Posted February 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, shalfordninja33 said: I have a 1989 686 onyx. I bought it from my uncle in the late 90s. It has the worn but cared for look these days, the blueing is worn and has a slight patina on the action. Looks all the better for it in my view. It just feels right. I took it to a local gun shop yesterday along with another gun that I was using as a trade in, I was heading out roost shooting straight after, the dealer was more interested in whether or not I was prepared to part with the onyx! The golden era of berettas in his words. For me it’s a lifer, I bought it in my late teens, I’m 42 now and it’s not going anywhere. It’s had one service in that time and been faultless. It will see a little less use in future as I’ve just ordered a 690 field in 20bore for my driven shooting. But for engaging high roosting pigeons and corvids of an evening it will definitely get a run out. That’s a cracker. I didn’t think there would be a definitive answerti this. I also always wondered if there was any substantial and not just anecdotal evidence that the newer guns were less reliable. Granted a few people would be aware of guns with issues, but Beretta must have sold thousands of silver pigeons by now. Quality of finish/fit is maybe a separate measure of quality of the guns. An rfd would probably be best placed to comment on reliability I suppose, purely on the basis of larger numbers of guns they have seen pass through their premises? No wonder they showed interest in yours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shalfordninja33 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, hod said: That’s a cracker. I didn’t think there would be a definitive answerti this. I also always wondered if there was any substantial and not just anecdotal evidence that the newer guns were less reliable. Granted a few people would be aware of guns with issues, but Beretta must have sold thousands of silver pigeons by now. Quality of finish/fit is maybe a separate measure of quality of the guns. An rfd would probably be best placed to comment on reliability I suppose, purely on the basis of larger numbers of guns they have seen pass through their premises? No wonder they showed interest in yours! Thanks! Yes, the guy was keen to have it in his personal collection. It only came into the shop as I wasn’t prepared to leave it in the car. After I told him what was in the slip he was dead keen for a look! In my very limited experience the newer models feel slightly larger in the hand and don’t feel quite as solid. In terms of mechanical reliability I’ve seen a few with ejector issues but none that don’t work at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 hours ago, activeviii said: The 687 was about the age when they started to change. Each model after that was undercut by the accountants So you recon the downhill started around 1980? I would have thought much later than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza71 Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 Great read I'm in the market for a Beretta and have been looking at all the new Guns, but after reading this I think I may be wiser to cast my net into the older used market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 I bought a 687 new in 1992/3, been faultless. Someone mentioned poor finish on a 692, I handled a year or so old 32 inch one recently, far to heavy for me but I saw no faults what so ever with the finish. I would have no issue at all buying a used 687. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hod Posted March 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 13 hours ago, dazza71 said: Great read I'm in the market for a Beretta and have been looking at all the new Guns, but after reading this I think I may be wiser to cast my net into the older used market It is a fascinating read, with many different opinions, from many experienced shooters. Does anyone know how many new o/u shotguns Beretta sell a year? I’m guessing into the tens of thousands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 4, 2019 Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 I would like to know how much of the Beretta shotguns are made in Turkish factories like ATA. Was this where the downward spiral started in outsourcing parts. My 682Gold E was a nice gun but the threads in the barrels for chokes were both different diameters. One was tight and scraped the outside of chokes the other loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted March 4, 2019 Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 Around 1997/8/9 they changed from using forged steel action components to investment castings and outsourced production of some parts. This was a cost saving measure because hand fitting was no longer required and therefore the guns could be assembled much more quickly by operatives rather than smiths. Some guns such as the 682 and 1st gen 686E were still built by smiths and were of good quality. SPs and such were not so well put together and this showed in the general fit and finish although I'm not sure that they were more troublesome. In about 2009/10 they decided to end outsourcing and bring back in house as much manufacturing as possible. This didn't go too well and resulted in 4 or 5 years when it seemed as if their quality control people were on strike. Unfortunately this coincided with the release of the 692 which, instead of being the natural successor to the legendary 682, became a fiasco from which sales have never recovered. Quality does seem better these days and after 9 years, they have finally given up on the troublesome switchable ejectors and reverted to plain ejectors and overcome the falling apart syndrome with a drop of thread locker on the top tang setscrew. I understand a few barrels for the semi autos were made in Turkey but I've never heard of any Beretta O/U components coming from anywhere outside Italy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 4, 2019 Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 That sums things up rather well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabel25 Posted March 4, 2019 Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 On 03/03/2019 at 09:52, dazza71 said: Great read I'm in the market for a Beretta and have been looking at all the new Guns, but after reading this I think I may be wiser to cast my net into the older used market There's a nice one in the private guns for sale thread Bargain price 1979 mod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted March 4, 2019 Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, figgy said: I would like to know how much of the Beretta shotguns are made in Turkish factories like ATA. Was this where the downward spiral started in outsourcing parts. My 682Gold E was a nice gun but the threads in the barrels for chokes were both different diameters. One was tight and scraped the outside of chokes the other loose. Figgy I too wondered this. So to lay it at rest I contacted GMK UK and asked the question. Reply from UK manager Martin Rooney was that since 1526 all Beretta shotgun barrels and actions have been made solely in Italy and they have never used Turkey. He said he would be very interested in anyone spreading rumours that parts were made elsewhere. Hope this clears it up. Edited March 4, 2019 by DUNKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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