Changes To The General Licence

[mossy835]

its very picky and be care full.so going by the new licence, we can start tomorrow,if they are going into peas.

[turbo33]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

And here in lies the rub, I have a feeling this is as full of holes as the Crow licence.

Completely agree. There are more aspects that give the likes of Packham ammunition than us the licence to do as we were. Ie, in bold, “Last resort to prevent Serious damage. Who defines and what is the definition of serious?  The person MUST be able to show  “what lawful methods have been, and ARE being, taken to prevent serious damage to such crops by woodpigeon or why the lawful methods have not been taken”

I could go on, this is absolutely ridiculous!!

[lancer425]

4 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

its very picky and be care full.so going by the new licence, we can start tomorrow,if they are going into peas.

 And  they are doing serious damage, you dont necessarily need to be on the peas themselves.

[lancer425]

2 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

Completely agree. There are more aspects that give the likes of Packham ammunition than us the licence to do as we were. Ie, in bold, “Last resort to prevent Serious damage. Who defines and what is the definition of serious?  The person MUST be able to show  “what lawful methods have been, and ARE being, taken to prevent serious damage to such crops by woodpigeon or why the lawful methods have not been taken”

I could go on, this is absolutely ridiculous!!

This is just a mark 2 fudge of the original mark 1 fudge .

 

[marsh man]

2 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

Completely agree. There are more aspects that give the likes of Packham ammunition than us the licence to do as we were. Ie, in bold, “Last resort to prevent Serious damage. Who defines and what is the definition of serious?  The person MUST be able to show  “what lawful methods have been, and ARE being, taken to prevent serious damage to such crops by woodpigeon or why the lawful methods have not been taken”

I could go on, this is absolutely ridiculous!!

A word of THANKS for keeping us up to date and your well thought out posts 

I think at the moment we are in a lot better mode as things are slowly getting back to normality , no doubt as time wear on we can digest the new G L in more detail .

[Pistol p]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-general-licences-for-controlling-canada-geese-and-wood-pigeon-comes-into-force

Excellent. Saddle up. Lock and load.

[mossy835]

looks like it,

[ShootingEgg]

So a scarecrow, two timed inflatable scare crows, a gas banger, and pigeons still coming in, think im okay to shoot them now... 

[Remimax]

5 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

So a scarecrow, two timed inflatable scare crows, a gas banger, and pigeons still coming in, think im okay to shoot them now... 

no you missed one ,point your gun and shout bang if that fails then you can shoot em.

[Bazooka Joe]

7 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

So a scarecrow, two timed inflatable scare crows, a gas banger, and pigeons still coming in, think im okay to shoot them now... 

You forgot the orange flashy lights...

[JJsDad]

Well, before we all start leaping up & down with joy. From a quick flip through the Pigeon Licence it appears to rule out shooting over stubbles and as one of my areas is partly in a SSSI it appears the owner / occupier needs an additional licence from NE. That will really please a busy farmer who is not totally up to speed with a laptop.

Edited May 3, 2019 by JJsDad

[ShootingEgg]

5 minutes ago, Remimax said:

no you missed one ,point your gun and shout bang if that fails then you can shoot em

Ah, well i do that each time i pull the trigger. So i shout bang and so does the gun. 

4 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

You forgot the orange flashy lights...

Will put one on my head..

[marsh man]

2 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

Well before we all start leaping up & down with joy. From a quick flip through the Pigeon Licence it appears to rule out shooting over stubbles and as one of my areas is partly in a SSSI it appears the owner / occupier needs an additional licence from NE.

The new license have been amended from the old G L, so we have to expect there will be changes in some form or other,  but hopefully with a bit of common sense we can overcome any minor amendments .

[old'un]

Unless I am misunderstanding the highlighted part in section 8, b) seems to contradict e) or at least suggest we can make a judgment on the effects of table 1

b) Before using the licence reasonable endeavors must have been made to resolve the problem using the lawful methods identified in Table 1(unless their use would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances) and any other lawful methods that may be appropriate in the circumstances.

[lancer425]

 

This part how i read it is clumsy, or is it just me. ?

d) Only undertake lethal control of birds during the peak breeding
season* if lethal control at other times or use of other licensed
methods (e.g. egg destruction) would not provide a satisfactory
solution.

[old'un]

12 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

 

This part how i read it is clumsy, or is it just me. ?

d) Only undertake lethal control of birds during the peak breeding
season* if lethal control at other times or use of other licensed
methods (e.g. egg destruction) would not provide a satisfactory
solution.

It is a little clumsy but what I think its saying is…when using lethal methods or other non-lethal methods do it before and after the main breeding season (June , July, August) if possible.

[lancer425]

8 minutes ago, old'un said:

It is a little clumsy but what I think its saying is…when using lethal methods or other non-lethal methods do it before and after the main breeding season (June , July, August) if possible.

Thanks and Thats how i read it but its not exactly clear, i could have written that its that clumsy .

[JBS]

Section 12. Definitions of this licence seems to cover most bases including stubble shooting in the “prevent serious damage” section

As I read it though pigeon guides are definitely done for as the sales and consumption section states the licence does not cover commercial or recreational shooting of woodpigeon, good riddance to them

[Good shot?]

It has been suggested previously that they, crows,magpies and woodpigeon for instance  be put on the pest species  but what is the reasoning that this would not be practical?

If in the unlikely event that numbers were then greatly reduced any one of them could be put back on the GL this would remove all ambiguity in the wording would it not.

Please excuse me if I am being a bit naive or simple minded.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Good shot?
Spelling edit.

[lancer425]

12 minutes ago, Good shot? said:

It has been suggested previously that they, crows,magpies and woodpigeon for instance  be put on the pest species  but what is the reasoning that this would not be practical?

If in the unlikely event that numbers where then greatly reduced any one of them could be put back on the GL this would remove all ambiguity in the wording would it not.

Please excuse me if I am being a bit naive or simple minded.

You are not being naive at all just talking sense this whole disaster of GLs conceived out of necessity  down to a government mistake, long before the way too powerful pedantic NE  was ever dreamed of.  And it worked   Sort of . Packham and WJ saw a weakness and went for it. And we are where we are now.  Nothing has changed from times before that fateful day the government signed into the Agreement protecting these birds, the bodge job thats worked for years is no more. We need to go back to the 1981W&CA  picking up from the 1954 POBA . This should have been done after they made the mistake, we lived in simpler times and in fairness could never have envisaged this happening.   We do not know what’s going on behind the scenes, or what the government has planned, but NE are holding on to a tight line of over complicated restrictive measures, that wont work and will be expensive and inefficient to administer.  I myself believe NEs current raceme know this and do not care about the cost as long as their own personal agendas are catered for. Its high time the government got a grip and stopped this fiasco, its got real potential to hurt the country and its wildlife on so many different levels its not funny any more. 

 What is the cost ?  even just this  far it must be getting expensive , and for what? Fudging up a old fudge that was born from a government cock up in the first place.  UNREAL.

[Miserableolgit]

https://www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/articles/new-woodpigeon-licence-appalling-says-ngo

Last para states:

""In a separate and important development tonight, it has also emerged that the Secretary of State, Michael Gove, will be taking back control of bird licensing from Natural England, at least for a time, starting tomorrow (Saturday 4 May). Commenting on this news, Liam Bell said: “NE made a pig’s ear of licensing and changes were certainly needed. We must hope that Defra can do better and we will offer them every assistance in sorting out this mess. The priority is to get workable licences back up as soon as possible, especially at this critical time for both livestock and wildlife.”"

[mossy835]

its not much use to us.they can do better then that i will stick to squirrels . and rabbits, for now till its all sorted.

[Old Boggy]

8 hours ago, old'un said:

It is a little clumsy but what I think its saying is…when using lethal methods or other non-lethal methods do it before and after the main breeding season (June , July, August) if possible.

Section 12 of GL31 states that the 'Peak breeding season'  of the wood pigeon for the purpose of this licence is taken to be the period between May and September.

 Section 8 states  'Only undertake lethal control of birds during the peak breeding season if lethal control at other times or use of other licensed methods (e.g.egg destruction) would not provide a satisfactory solution' .

My interpretation of that is that if pigeons are still causing serious damage to crops between May and September, then they may be shot, as clearly any attempt of control outside of that period has been unsuccessful. 

There are however, more onerous items in other sections putting the onus on the landowner/shooter to prove the extent of the 'serious damage' and the financial implications of such damage. This has been vehemently challenged by the NGO and hopefully all the other organisations. We will have to wait and see if any further changes are forthcoming as a result of this challenge. I'm  sure most, if not all of us, will get the full backing of our farmers for whom we are carrying out protection of their crops in this regard.

OB

PS. Note that BASC were also on the case last night. Good for them.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Old Boggy

[Longbower]

Reading through the new general licence GL31 Woodpigeon. 

It would seem to me , that luring birds into an area to shoot them, would not be acceptable,

as all reasonable steps to scare them AWAY, have to be taken ,prior to the last resort of killing them.

So , using decoys to lure them IN , would be contrary to the conditions of the GL .

Wouldn't it?

[turbo33]

BASC have declared it unfit for purpose! 

Hats off to a BASC as they will had seen sight of it very late as we did. They must have been working over night to look through it then put a statement on their website. 

Back to square one it seems.