Oh no! ATA Supersport

[London Best]

300k cartridges is fifteen years at 20k/year. I do not personally shoot clays (except occasionally for fun), but I am sure many top competition shooters will shoot that many.  Lots of the three days/week 3/500 birds/day game shooters will use that many too. Certainly, the top Victorian / Edwardians did. Not me, obviously. I use between 750/1000 per year at game.

[Rewulf]

13 minutes ago, London Best said:

300k cartridges is fifteen years at 20k/year. I do not personally shoot clays (except occasionally for fun), but I am sure many top competition shooters will shoot that many.

Theyre not really going to be seen with an ATA though are they ?

20 k carts a year is a lot of carts in anyones money, BUT ,do I think an ATA  could manage your theorized 300k in a serviced lifetime ?
I dont see any reason why not, any more than an average Beretta or Browning would .

Sometimes youre just paying for a name, quality simply doesnt come into it.

[enfieldspares]

I like the Anson rod on the ATA but I wouldn't buy it for that alone. Nevertheless I've always preferred that type of release. And O/U guns look better for it too.

[udderlyoffroad]

On 13/03/2021 at 11:26, London Best said:

Fourth, what connection has that with this thread.

This thread is specifically about a model of O/U.

By your own admission you haven't handled an O/U since Jesus was in short trousers.

Why do you feel the need to give your (at best, dated) opinion on O/Us if you avoid them? 

I don't weigh into threads on deer-calibre rifles - I've put a couple of shots down-range on a .243, once.  Didn't like the pull of the trigger, but it could probably have been adjusted to my taste.  Doesn't mean I'm going to weigh into discussions about deer calibre rifles saying "I don't care for them".

 

On 13/03/2021 at 11:26, London Best said:

Thirdly, calling BS on this one. It just means it was designed / built properly.

Not how it works. Everything is built to a price.  Purdeys and the like, where the price is a secondary consideration, are such outliers as to be irrelevant to the discussion, as they are not within the means of the average person.

Berettas are built to a price.  As are Brownings.  The question is, how much do those 2 brands chuck on top as their brand value?

Quality of fit and finish is probably better on a Beretta.  Probably.  Comparing 20 year old Silver Pig to a new ATA isn't the apples to apples comparison either.

Also, I'd contest this 'nice wood' marketing ploy is a distraction.  Whisper it, but a lot of new clay shooters  don't give a fiddler's frat about nice wood.  They're happy with plastic fantastic stocks, and why not.  It appears to be a PW obsession.  I don't know many shooters in real life, whether clay, game, vermin, or a combination thereof, who spend hours lusting after nice woodwork.

I doubt any modern gun will be 'scrap' if serviced properly.  And I don't mean "Trigger's broom" levels of servicing either.

Will a new ATA make 300k shots?  Yes, probably.  Will a new Silver Pig?  Also yes, probably.

I've handled and shot new Brownings, CGs and the like.  Fit and finish is a step up from the ATA.  But not by nearly as much as I'd expect.

 

[Smokersmith]

20 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Also, I'd contest this 'nice wood' marketing ploy is a distraction. 

Agree ... 

Typically of you want a nicely figured natural stock, you need to pay for a higher grade gun. 
 

There will be the odd exception ... but if it’s a marketing ploy, it’s been avoided for decades.

[Mr grumpy]

On 16/03/2021 at 11:58, Smokersmith said:

Agree ... 

Typically of you want a nicely figured natural stock, you need to pay for a higher grade gun. 
 

There will be the odd exception ... but if it’s a marketing ploy, it’s been avoided for decades.

Forgive me if i'm wrong.i think that london best was making a valid point.you can put nice wood on and yes,it will make it sell.however back when his guns were made ,they would have (more or less) been an equivalent price to an ata today.

Would an ata still be going strong in 100 ish years? As they are made to a "price"

[Old farrier]

Well interesting thread 

the ata is a entry level gun I’ve shot a few and found them good reliable and easy to shoot 

I don’t have one (yet ) there’s a lot of nice guns out there and for the money this is up there 

will it last longer than a more expensive gun? 
it dosent have to it only got to last a quarter of the time if it’s a quarter of the price 

nice wood sells a gun I can guarantee two identical guns same price you will pick the one with the nicer wood 

10000 cartridges a year isn’t a lot for a gun or a serious shooter there’s a few on here that shoot that many and more (myself included)pre lockdown it’s our hobby/sport I have two guns that I have personally put 250000 cartridges through in the time I have had them one browning one beretta both are going strong 

if you like it buy it and enjoy it if you wear it out you have had a good time 😊👍

[MARSH GUN]

I can not comment on ATas having never used or handled one. But my thoughts on cheaper shotguns, today are that more CNC machines are involved in the production of these guns. and quality is going to be in theory as good as any European of Japanese gun made on the same or similar machines.

   final assembly  fitting  finishing and final Quality control are potentially areas for concern, but the OP seems pleased with the stock Finnish at least.

  I think if its what you want and your on a budget and want a new gun the ATA could be worth buying.

I will add here, i have had a Hatsan escort for over 5 years use it often and it is yet to give a single issue. Modern production methods might just be making cheaper guns very reliable at low prices, add to this the 1/3 price labour in Turkey, ATA could well be a bargain.

[oscarsdad]

24 minutes ago, MARSH GUN said:

I can not comment on ATas having never used or handled one. But my thoughts on cheaper shotguns, today are that more CNC machines are involved in the production of these guns. and quality is going to be in theory as good as any European of Japanese gun made on the same or similar machines.

   final assembly  fitting  finishing and final Quality control are potentially areas for concern, but the OP seems pleased with the stock Finnish at least.

  I think if its what you want and your on a budget and want a new gun the ATA could be worth buying.

I will add here, i have had a Hatsan escort for over 5 years use it often and it is yet to give a single issue. Modern production methods might just be making cheaper guns very reliable at low prices, add to this the 1/3 price labour in Turkey, ATA could well be a bargain.

And there lies the difference...

An action machined from billet / bar is not going to be as strong as one that’s forged and the detail machined in. The cheaper Turkish guns with CNC actions are therefore inherently not as strong as a forged action, but the offset being that they can be produced much more cheaply. 

[Pangolin]

23 minutes ago, oscarsdad said:

And there lies the difference...

An action machined from billet / bar is not going to be as strong as one that’s forged and the detail machined in. The cheaper Turkish guns with CNC actions are therefore inherently not as strong as a forged action, but the offset being that they can be produced much more cheaply. 

It would seem that most, if not all Berettas are cnc, even the SO10 EELL from what I can see.

Thats just from a vid and a few articles.

[oscarsdad]

1 minute ago, Pangolin said:

It would seem that most, if not all Berettas are cnc, even the SO10 EELL from what I can see.

Thats just from a vid and a few articles.

They will be machined on a CNC machine but it is my understanding that they are first forged - the grain flow of the alloy will be modelled in the forging die and the resultant metal much much stronger and then the final form machined on CNC 

[Pangolin]

2 minutes ago, oscarsdad said:

They will be machined on a CNC machine but it is my understanding that they are first forged - the grain flow of the alloy will be modelled in the forging die and the resultant metal much much stronger and then the final form machined on CNC 

Yes, I get you, It would be much stronger machined from forged.

 

[enfieldspares]

The nice wood argument ignores the other side of that argument. That those that know guns will, after an initial glance, look much more closely at what is "going on" through the wrist of the gun and look for a grain pattern that gives strength.

If all else is equal then, yes, choose the nice wood (although that is subjective I prefer a modestly figured stock to a excessively figured stock) but look first at what is "going on" through the wrist. Strength is always a better choice than style.

Edited March 20, 2021 by enfieldspares

[MARSH GUN]

A company presentation/ history.

 

[Pangolin]

Ive just dipped into the Turkish market, bought Yildiz Wildfowler Extreme 30" O/U.

A bit cheaper than the ATA SP Supersport that was mentioned, this was £775, nice enough wood, 3.5 chamber, non-ejector, steel action. Im not mad on game scenes on guns unless its a higher end model so the 'fake' case hardening ticks the box for me as long as it wears well.

I think all the ATA are alloy action.

I was looking at a Browning or maybe another Beretta but couldnt justify the spend this time.

I'm sure it'll outlive me with the amount of shooting I'll do with it.

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Pangolin

[alan123shooting]

9 hours ago, Pangolin said:

Ive just dipped into the Turkish market, bought Yildiz Wildfowler Extreme 30" O/U.

A bit cheaper than the ATA SP Supersport that was mentioned, this was £775, nice enough wood, 3.5 chamber, non-ejector, steel action. Im not mad on game scenes on guns unless its a higher end model so the 'fake' case hardening ticks the box for me as long as it wears well.

I think all the ATA are alloy action.

I was looking at a Browning or maybe another Beretta but couldnt justify the spend this time.

I'm sure it'll outlive me with the amount of shooting I'll do with it.

 

ATA actions are steel but they do some with lightweight alloy action, I have a SP Elegant which is steel 

[Pangolin]

1 hour ago, alan123shooting said:

ATA actions are steel but they do some with lightweight alloy action, I have a SP Elegant which is steel 

Yeah, the SP range comes with a choice of steel or alu alloy receivers.

I had a read on them, but none really took my fancy, prefered the Wildfowler for the price.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Pangolin

[Old farrier]

11 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

The nice wood argument ignores the other side of that argument. That those that know guns will, after an initial glance, look much more closely at what is "going on" through the wrist of the gun and look for a grain pattern that gives strength.

If all else is equal then, yes, choose the nice wood (although that is subjective I prefer a modestly figured stock to a excessively figured stock) but look first at what is "going on" through the wrist. Strength is always a better choice than style.

^^^^^^^ this with wood every time 👍

it dosent stop me liking exebition grade wood though but the clues in the name it’s for looking at 😉

[alan123shooting]

Yep each to their own, I don’t wildfowl, but enjoy the gun, certainly looks the part 

[Smokersmith]

On 20/03/2021 at 21:32, enfieldspares said:

The nice wood argument ignores the other side of that argument. That those that know guns will, after an initial glance, look much more closely at what is "going on" through the wrist of the gun and look for a grain pattern that gives strength.

If all else is equal then, yes, choose the nice wood (although that is subjective I prefer a modestly figured stock to a excessively figured stock) but look first at what is "going on" through the wrist. Strength is always a better choice than style.

A bit like this on a £1490 Yildiz

[Ausgunner]

On 13/03/2021 at 19:36, Taileron said:

Not sure about that, my wife’s has had about 3k through it now and has performed flawlessly, so the material and manufacturing must be good, I suspect QC has had some problems. The wood on hers (and many others) makes my MK70 and Mk38 look like a fence post. I have previous stated that the ones I picked up had issues and were returned (but the damage could have been done in proof) but then again my MK70 has also had problems from new.  A couple of pals now have Supersports and they love them and I’m seriously considering another. COVID has shown me that I have 4K worth of guns just gathering dust, and if anyone thinks it’s going away then they need to rethink that. I don’t mind having £800 gathering dust. 
Only time will tell if they have longevity, but it would seem that they are proving reliable so far. IMO they are a good cut above Koffs, marginally better than Yildiz (but not on the small gauges)

Clay shooting is expensive and I’m all for getting more people into the sport, if any manufacturers can produce a product that can get more people into the sport on a shoe string, then that gets the thumbs up from me.

Just my 10p worth👍

Three thousand cartidges is only just broken in, there are 30plus year old mirokus, beretta, browning, winchesters out there with 100s of thousands of shells through them,

I own an ata as a loan gun,people just need to accept them for what they are- a budget built gun that is made to look like a beretta.

i have stripped the ata and my winchester and a 680 special and compared everything. And what i found was

They are good for the money in spec terms

for a casual shooter etc, but they are a long way off the likes of the other guns mentioned, differences being

Lower quality steel and tolerances

Machining is ok but overall geometry and finishing is much lower

cheap coatings

The wood although can look nice is not dense at all. wouldn't be surprised if they stained them to appear a higher grade than they are.

Paper thin top rib weird mid rib design. Front heavy

Triggers are very budget. The gap is decent between them

 new silver pigeons are over priced, but the main thing here is these atas will not last a lifetime so you can't compare them to guns that will. they are built as a throwaway item, built to last their warranty period. Sure some guys will get 10 plus years of good service of casual use, me personally although i own one as a loaner i always say buy used quality over new cheap with warranty if intend to shoot once a week plus

 

These guns go bang and shoot decently enough, and i am not trying to say they are rubbish- but they are built to a budget and the gap is decent. If you come into shotgun market with 600£ they are an option, i would take a used miroku etc over one as i shoot a lot and i like to know the gun i am using can handle it for a long time. None of my guns has cost me over 700£, sure some can't walk passed the warranty offered and i get that

 

 

[Taileron]

11 hours ago, Ausgunner said:

Lower quality steel and tolerances

Machining is ok but overall geometry and finishing is much lower

cheap coatings

The wood although can look nice is not dense at all. wouldn't be surprised if they stained them to appear a higher grade than they are.

Paper thin top rib weird mid rib design. Front heavy

Triggers are very budget. The gap is decent between them

 but the main thing here is these atas will not last a lifetime. they are built as a throwaway item, 

 

 i am not trying to say they are rubbish

 

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but reading the post, that is precisely what you are trying to say.

[alan123shooting]

27 minutes ago, Taileron said:

Please excuse my ignorance, but reading the post, that is precisely what you are trying to say.

Spot on sir

[Ausgunner]

14 hours ago, Taileron said:

Please excuse my ignorance, but reading the post, that is precisely what you are trying to say.

Pointing out the gap between them is stating a fact, lots of owners of them seem to think there are no differences, like i said compare them all and see for yourself. I said they shoot ok and handle ok, don't remember saying they are overall a **** gun, they are ok for the money, but there is a quality gap, i wouldn't own one if i thought was total rubbish would i?

[Rewulf]

On 01/04/2021 at 23:05, Ausgunner said:

Lower quality steel and tolerances  How did you check this , or are you just surmising ?

Machining is ok but overall geometry and finishing is much lower The machining aspect kind of contradicts the 'tolerance' comment above ?
Finishing ? Do you mean that they are not blued, but rather anodised, and not lacquered stocks ?

cheap coatings As above ?

The wood although can look nice is not dense at all. wouldn't be surprised if they stained them to appear a higher grade than they are. This comment really makes no sense, its Turkish walnut, for which you are not paying a premium anyway , but to suggest its 'stained ' to make it look higher grade ?

Paper thin top rib weird mid rib design. Front heavy Got to disagree with that statement in its entirety.

Triggers are very budget. The gap is decent between them The only part Ill agree with you on , the triggers are functional, and not as good as guns costing 3 x more.

 

On 01/04/2021 at 23:05, Ausgunner said:

new silver pigeons are over priced, but the main thing here is these atas will not last a lifetime so you can't compare them to guns that will.

How on earth you can quantify that statement Ive no idea, pure guesswork on your part.

 

On 01/04/2021 at 23:05, Ausgunner said:

they are built as a throwaway item, built to last their warranty period.

Again , facts plucked from the air, you do know theyve been around a lot longer than 3 years.
I think the word would be out now ?

On 01/04/2021 at 23:05, Ausgunner said:

Sure some guys will get 10 plus years of good service of casual use, me personally although i own one as a loaner i always say buy used quality over new cheap with warranty if intend to shoot once a week plus

So they are only going to last the warranty period , or they last 10 years?
But only if you dont use them once a week plus ?
More estimates , based on what ?

On 01/04/2021 at 23:05, Ausgunner said:

These guns go bang and shoot decently enough, and i am not trying to say they are rubbish- but they are built to a budget and the gap is decent.

Of course they are built to a budget, everything is, but....

On 01/04/2021 at 23:05, Ausgunner said:

i would take a used miroku etc over one as i shoot a lot and i like to know the gun i am using can handle it for a long time.

....You would rather have a used Miroku for the same money, and NO warranty, than a brand new gun with 3 years warranty ?
Because you KNOW the used Miroku can handle your heavy usage ?
Based on more assumptions no doubt ?

On 02/04/2021 at 10:23, Taileron said:

Please excuse my ignorance, but reading the post, that is precisely what you are trying to say.

What he is saying is ,Ive got one that I lend out to people to abuse all day long, a job that it does 'ok'
But dont you buy a new one , because a 10 year Miroku for the same money is a far better option, because I said so.