bavarianbrit Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 12 hours ago, Vince Green said: Nobody comes out unharmed by that story Drinking in a pub with a shotgun in the car outside (loaded or not?) come on, that's not how you should behave I did not even stop for a pee by going in a motorway service station when transporting my guns to Wales if it meant leaving the car unattended. Plastic bottle and out the window somewhere discrete at the top end of the car park out of the way. Fortunately it never got to big jobs but the same would apply. No way am I ever going to lose sight of those guns for one minute. So adding to the worlds litter mountain is OK? Just take it with you to the ****** it is legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 I think Vince was referring to emptying the bottle not throwing it away. One of the most bizarre threads for some time. A young lad has lost his life. I have every sympathy with his family and feel sorry for the lad. However, some people wish to twist that. I question their motives. I have no sympathy for the other two idiots who were involved. One cycled the gun three times to ensure it was empty. The other might have touched it or not, when it suddenly reloaded itself and went off. If anyone has sympathy with them - good luck to you. One of them isn't telling the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, Gordon R said: One cycled the gun three times to ensure it was empty. The other might have touched it or not, when it suddenly reloaded itself and went off. 14 minutes ago, Gordon R said: One of them isn't telling the truth. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: One cycled the gun three times to ensure it was empty. This was the same chap who also never touched it when it went off. The gun owner, from what I can make out, did nothing other than leave the gun in the cab with his two under-keepers while he went for a leak. (Two under-keepers whom he probably imagined should know enough about semi-autos that they wouldn't shoot themselves with one in his absence. But quite honestly the whole story is very opaque.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 Still left a gun, uncovered, in the front (loaded at the start) on a pub crawl with others in the landy, not the most spacious of transport. Even driving in the fields you don't have 1 up the spout. Totally avoidable, the fat ****** was too lazy or showing off to put it in a slip in the boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 31 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said: Still left a gun, uncovered, in the front (loaded at the start) on a pub crawl with others in the landy, not the most spacious of transport. Even driving in the fields you don't have 1 up the spout. Totally avoidable, the fat ****** was too lazy or showing off to put it in a slip in the boot. Please don't for a moment imagine that I think he's hard done by. It was his gun; he was responsible for it; and quite honestly only an utter cretin would pub crawl with a shotgun in a landrover cab full of drunks, apparently with cartridges in the magazine let alone with one in the chamber. But having said that, I'm suspicious that the underkeeper who was in the cab when the gun went off is being economical with the truth. But whatever. The situation should never have come into existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 As already said, a series of events that led to a totally avoidable tragedy, very sad, just like some of the preceding comments on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 That’s sucks. Nothing Someone should be locked up over but still sucks. It seems the victim was a willing contributor to the accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 25/06/2019 at 21:29, Bobba said: Pub to pub on a night out with a loaded shotgun in the car defies imagination!! Agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 Quote That’s sucks. Nothing Someone should be locked up over but still sucks. It seems the victim was a willing contributor to the accident. I am unclear as to how he was a willing contributor. One man cycled the shotgun three times, after previously ejecting a live shell outside the pub. After three cycles, he sat next to it whilst it reloaded itself and shot the back seat passenger. I would need to see a lie detector strapped to his arm before I believed that. They are both going to prison - that has been decided - and deserve it. The gun owner has been found guilty on a manslaughter charge and some don't think he should be jailed? How does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Gordon R said: They are both going to prison - that has been decided - and deserve it. Just seen it on the web. The keeper (Ben Andrew Wilson) got 7 years and the other idiot 2 years. Edited June 27, 2019 by JJsDad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 no reason for the loaed gun to be there lock them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 I dont think anyone has said he wasent at fault its just some of the remarks made and his family might be on here looking at this thread show some sympathy towards them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, JJsDad said: Just seen it on the web. The keeper (Ben Andrew Wilson) got 7 years and the other idiot 2 years. Seems a little lop sided, he gets 7 years for being the owner of the gun/bringing it out, even though he wasnt in the car, yet the bloke who was sat next to it/pulled the trigger, gets 2 ? If anything they were both to blame, and should have go the same. That gun didnt go off on its own, and someone either didnt clear it, or someone reloaded it. My theory is this. Gun WAS unloaded - Driver gets out to urinate - passenger thinks ' wouldnt it be funny it I fire a shot in the air whilst hes got his back turned outside' - loads gun and goes to point it out the window/door - gun goes off during this action, fatally wounding rear seat passenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 he was the owner of the gun, and he should have had it locked away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, mossy835 said: he was the owner of the gun, and he should have had it locked away. I understand that, but thats like saying hes the owner of the Land Rover, but he wasnt in it at the time when the handbrake mysteriously let itself off and it rolled down the hill and killed someone, and the passengers in it dont know anything about it ? Did the gun 'go off' on its own ? Whilst its not totally impossible, its much more likely that someone tampered with it whilst he was absent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 25/06/2019 at 21:28, Rob525 said: Idiot gives us a bad name. 100 percent preventable Absolutely and frightening such idiots are about and SUPPOSED to be professional as well. AND IT WAS NOT AN ACCIDENT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 32 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I understand that, but thats like saying hes the owner of the Land Rover, but he wasnt in it at the time when the handbrake mysteriously let itself off and it rolled down the hill and killed someone, and the passengers in it dont know anything about it ? Did the gun 'go off' on its own ? Whilst its not totally impossible, its much more likely that someone tampered with it whilst he was absent. He was the owner of the gun, and he should have had it locked away. Should never have been out with them with cartridges whilst they were on a pub crawl, and he should not of left it in the car where other idiots/drunks had access to it. It's nothing like saying he was the owner of the Landover etc etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 17 minutes ago, Walker570 said: Absolutely and frightening such idiots are about and SUPPOSED to be professional as well. AND IT WAS NOT AN ACCIDENT. An accident can be described as an unfortunate sequence of events. To be brutal, this was a lethal sequence of illegal acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 Quote AND IT WAS NOT AN ACCIDENT. Quote To be brutal, this was a lethal sequence of illegal acts. Both 100% correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshAndy Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 This is local to me... I knew the victim and the lad sat next to him on the back seat. The owner of the gun also had all his other guns left out at home - after the event he phoned his boss to put them away before the police showed up. It is an absolute tragedy that could/should have been avoided. Wilson has been charged with manslaughter through gross negligence plus possessing a loaded firearm in a public place. Fitzsimons was charged with possessing a loaded firearm in a public place. Peter was a lovely young lad who lived and breathed our sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshAndy Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-two-men-trial-over-16369823 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 The evidence reflects badly on Wilson - lad dies - but he is concerned about covering up his insecure guns. He got off lightly. Fitzsimmons - half a tale - he got off very lightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Gordon R said: I am unclear as to how he was a willing contributor. One man cycled the shotgun three times, after previously ejecting a live shell outside the pub. After three cycles, he sat next to it whilst it reloaded itself and shot the back seat passenger. I would need to see a lie detector strapped to his arm before I believed that. They are both going to prison - that has been decided - and deserve it. The gun owner has been found guilty on a manslaughter charge and some don't think he should be jailed? How does that work? He was out drinking, bouncing around in a car with a loaded shotgun in his face. I would feel deferent if the gun went off and killed someone walking down the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 I don't see the difference. A young lad is dead because of the action of two idiots (who are now jailed) and you think he shared blame? Bizarre view of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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