oowee Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 Typical Brexit extreme response. No need for hate, life goes on we don't always get what we want, throwing toys out of the pram is counter productive. This is realpolitik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, oowee said: Typical Brexit extreme response. No need for hate, life goes on we don't always get what we want, throwing toys out of the pram is counter productive. This is realpolitik. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 just about every remoaner then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, hambone said: 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 just about every remoaner then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: The last 2.5 years have been a real eye opener for me and millions of others, we've got to see our political class at their absolute worst. You want to see change, I'll guarantee you now that change will come, whether it's hard, soft or poached Brexit. Eyes have been opened and genies let out, make no mistake on that. I completely agree, if democracy never existed in the first place, even the illusion of it is now shattered and our corrupt, self serving politicians have been exposed for controlling the population rather than serving it. That is going to have far reaching consequences going into the future that will make any kind of brexit look like a minor event in comparison and could well end up unsettling traditional politics for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, oowee said: Typical Brexit extreme response. No need for hate, life goes on we don't always get what we want, throwing toys out of the pram is counter productive. This is realpolitik. They deserve a whole lot more than hatred, these last few weeks I have never been as disgusted and angry in my whole life. Edited January 19, 2019 by JRDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 If the remaniacs in power are stupid enough to stop brexit it could well be their downfall. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8236819/nigel-farage-new-brexit-party/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Just now, 12gauge82 said: If the remaniacs in power are stupid enough to stop brexit it could well be their downfall. I can't see how he could form a party sufficiently quickly to make any real difference for years. He might pick up some defections from one of the main parties, but even any with large majorities would be at risk because their old party would field an 'official' candidate against them - and they would have the backing of a big 'party machine'. What is emerging here is that no party (and only some members of the Tory party and the DUP) actually want a 'clean break'. Mainstream Tory are mostly either a May deal, or a Customs Union/Single Market type of deal - with a few complete "Remain". Only a minority are ERG style clean break. Virtually all Labour are a Customs Union/Single Market type of deal - with or "Remain", and despite what they say about carrying out Brexit, what they are asking for is really Remain in all but name. ALL LibDem, SNP and Green are firmly Remain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Just now, JohnfromUK said: I can't see how he could form a party sufficiently quickly to make any real difference for years. He might pick up some defections from one of the main parties, but even any with large majorities would be at risk because their old party would field an 'official' candidate against them - and they would have the backing of a big 'party machine'. What is emerging here is that no party (and only some members of the Tory party and the DUP) actually want a 'clean break'. Mainstream Tory are mostly either a May deal, or a Customs Union/Single Market type of deal - with a few complete "Remain". Only a minority are ERG style clean break. Virtually all Labour are a Customs Union/Single Market type of deal - with or "Remain", and despite what they say about carrying out Brexit, what they are asking for is really Remain in all but name. ALL LibDem, SNP and Green are firmly Remain I'm not so sure, 17.4 million voting people is a lot of people to annoy, even if it did take many years, people don't forget when they're annoyed enough, I know I won't. Ask most in the mining areas of S Wales or the N East what they think of Thatcher and the Conservatives for instance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 I don't think UKIP had a chance of winning an election but it had enough of an influence (4m? votes) to make Cameron panic enough, to call a referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 39 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said: I don't think UKIP had a chance of winning an election but it had enough of an influence (4m? votes) to make Cameron panic enough, to call a referendum. Exactly, now imagine a party with 17.4 million votes, maybe brexit being blocked will be a good thing, it could be the end of the two horse race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Just now, 12gauge82 said: Exactly, now imagine a party with 17.4 million votes, maybe brexit being blocked will be a good thing, it could be the end of the two horse race. Trouble is, it will never happen, it would just be the Conservatives that would suffer and we would end up with only Labour for many years. Labour voters are just that Labour voters. I was speaking to one the other night and he said he would never vote for Corbyn the man is a joke, when I asked who he would be voting for at the next general election, guess what his answer was, Labour. You could put Ian Huntley in charge and he would still vote Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Newbie to this said: Trouble is, it will never happen, it would just be the Conservatives that would suffer and we would end up with only Labour for many years. Labour voters are just that Labour voters. I was speaking to one the other night and he said he would never vote for Corbyn the man is a joke, when I asked who he would be voting for at the next general election, guess what his answer was, Labour. You could put Ian Huntley in charge and he would still vote Labour. Maybe true, the thing is, those in the Conservatives trying to block brexit are the self serving, sneaky, selfish members of the party and if they realise that if they damage brexit, they could very well be damaging themselves, they might take a different view, the only problem with that is they're so arrogant that they probably don't think it's a possibility but im sure it will happen in the long run if they continue to blatantly ignore the people's will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 13 hours ago, JRDS said: They deserve a whole lot more than hatred, these last few weeks I have never been as disgusted and angry in my whole life. Most people that I know feel exactly the same ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 We maybe have now entered the UK political default position. That of appearing to consult all in the name of equality and fairness, ticking all of the boxes but losing the objective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 15 hours ago, oowee said: Typical Brexit extreme response. No need for hate, life goes on we don't always get what we want, throwing toys out of the pram is counter productive. This is realpolitik. What sort of **** life will go on if we are still fettered by this European bunch of a*******s. The treaty of Lisbon will soon be around the corner and you and I millions more will become maybe a little better than the slaves of ancient Rome. Get ready to throw your dummy out of your pram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 56 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: but im sure it will happen in the long run if they continue to blatantly ignore the people's will. I hope that you are right, these people deserve to lose their seats. For me Brexit isn't just about leaving the EU anymore it is about democracy itself, which some MPs are trying to ignore. But the only way things will change, is if every person who believes in democracy (regardless of how they voted) downs tools/stops work and marches on parliament, bringing the UK to a standstill until democrocy is seen through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Well it seems one Brexit issue has been cleared up....the arguement that parliament and the queen are in all matters sovereign, usually they are! But in the case of Brexit, parliament couldn't decide on Britain staying in or leaving the EU, so they passed sovereignty on to the people to decide via a referendum..........the people made a soverign decision to leave the EU, This being the case there must be a legal challenge if Parliament overturn the sovereign decision of the people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Newbie to this said: Trouble is, it will never happen, it would just be the Conservatives that would suffer and we would end up with only Labour for many years. Labour voters are just that Labour voters. I was speaking to one the other night and he said he would never vote for Corbyn the man is a joke, when I asked who he would be voting for at the next general election, guess what his answer was, Labour. You could put Ian Huntley in charge and he would still vote Labour. I voted labour once in my life. But I will probably never ever vote for them ever again in my life. Blair -brown-corbyn really put me off the labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 To get 17.4M votes - or anywhere like it - the 'brexit' party would need a candidate in all constituencies. Even if they only fielded a candidate in a constituency with a 'proven remainer' MP now, they are going to need a lot ao candidates and a party machine to organise it all. Its a BIG mountain to climb ....... The problem with voting now is that there is only one party with a possibility of a proper Brexit ...... and only a minority of them (mainly ERG) are really 'on board'. Labour are either second referendum or VERY soft Brexit - and LibDem, Green are all solidly Remain. If we get a Corbyn/McDonnell/Abbott Labour government, they will borrow and spend with no way of repaying (just as Labour have always done) - and our children and grandchildren will end up having to pay it back. If you look at Norway (who have always had a somewhat 'mildly left of centre' government socially - they have not borrowed, but saved - including all of the money from their North Sea oil share - and Norway is in consequence a VERY rich country (Google Norway Sovereign Wealth Fund). We spent our money on subsidising loss making nationalised industries, bailing out strike hit industries, tacky shoddy build tower blocks and prefab estates which have had to be demolished and saved none of our North Seal oil money ........ and built up a huge debt. The ONLY person to start repaying the debt was Thatcher. We are now paying an annual interest on the debt roughly the same size as our defence budget ...... Norway by contrast receives a decent income from all of its huge savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 ^^^^^^this is exactly the point I was making earlier. Our democracy suffers because of our non democratic version of democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: If we get a Corbyn/McDonnell/Abbott Labour government, they will borrow and spend with no way of repaying (just as Labour have always done) - and our children and grandchildren will end up having to pay it back. This is not correct. Under Blair the early years had very tight fiscal control of UK finances :-' Even New Labour’s fiercest critics must acknowledge that central bank independence ushered in stable UK growth and relatively low inflation. During the 1997 election campaign, the Conservatives ran under the slogan “Britain is booming — don’t let Labour blow it”. More than justifiable given Labour’s track-record, this message was wrong. The UK grew at an annual rate of 2.4pc during the 10 years Blair was in office, compared with 2.1pc on average during the previous half century.' - Source Telegraph 15th Jan 19. Our children and grand children will be paying for the standard of living we are experiencing even without the parlous spending of labour and subsequent administrations. We are living beyond our means and not paying the true cost of the resources that we are exploiting. Our policy for meeting global environmental standards relies upon our export of polution to China and the sub continent. Our housing market benefits house owners to the detriment of our children. Our pensions are paid at a level that is not sustainable by our children. Norway was able to take bold decisions on investing in the future because they do not suffer the electoral weakness of the first past the post system. Even small parties get a say. How much more balanced would the UK politics be with such a system? A new Party for Farage could well make a significant difference under such a system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 26 minutes ago, oowee said: This is not correct. Under Blair the early years had very tight fiscal control of UK finances That is true, but overall taking the continuous Blair/Brown period of Labour government , they inherited a quite reasonable economic state, initially held that , but by the time they left power when Brown was replaced by Cameron - the economy was in a truly dreadful state. They repaid little or nothing of previous debt - and left a much larger debt - plus sold all of the gold reserves off cheap and committed a pile of future debt under dodgy PFI initiatives - which effectively mortgaged the future to make the present look better than it was. Norway has a much higher standard of living than here. In my view the main reason they did well was not the electoral system, but a tight money control that spent wisely and saved. Our poor performance was due to continuously subsidising loss making state ventures, rather than encouraging new money to invest in new profitable ones. All this is getting off topic for Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Wasn't it Liam Byrne the then Labour Chief officer of the treasury, who left a note for his newly elected Conservative successor, saying "I'm afraid there's no money left".............so he left the treasury for the Conservative's (and the country) "without a pot to **** in" If elected, watch Labour do the same (or worse?) again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 23 hours ago, oowee said: What does that have to do with the standard of living in the country now? Is it any different here? What is getting done in the UK? Where are we going as a Nation. The UK is NOT sorting out it's problems. You may want it but i don't think it will be best for the country. In the same way I don't think a right wing party would be good news either. So you want the LimpDumbs? (Pretty colours by the way.....whose flag is it?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, pinfireman said: So you want the LimpDumbs? (Pretty colours by the way.....whose flag is it?) That is the flag of SURRENDER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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