panoma1 Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dave-G said: The use of coal might have gone on a lot longer were it not for the likes of Scargill making it a liability to bring down governments. Its my opinion that Britain would have remained a more competitive manufacturer if unions had not been so heck bent on destroying industry on the back of incessant wage increasing, causing them to take productivity to more affordable countries that had lower staffing costs and more willing compliant workforce. Don't worry! There are more British people than ever living on the streets of the UK, or living in relative poverty, on low wages, zero hours contracts, compliant because if they speak out of turn they could lose their job and livelihood, most have had no wage rises for years, whilst company CEO's give themselves £millions in bonuses, whilst outsourcing works to foreign sweatshops who's workers can produce bigger profits for UK businesses, by undercutting our workers, because they work for threepence halfpenny a month in their own countries, and even on the lowest UK wage, can earn more money than they ever can, in their own countries!......now there is no one left to speak up for the powerless....because successive governments have legislated against those that did! The trade unions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 19 minutes ago, panoma1 said: In the U.K. A general election is now more about people voting for the candidates standing against those they don't want elected.......rather than for the candidate they do!............which, with what's currently on offer, is a bit like asking, how would you prefer to die?.....Run over by a bus, train or lorry?.... we all know, the end result will be the same, and in the final analysis......it's us that will get shafted! Corbin, May, Cable or Farage? Who would you vote for? If May doesn't deliver I'd rather vote Corbyn than May (not that I'd vote for him either), a vote for the conservatives if they fail to deliver on the referendum result would mean I accept a dictatorship and I refuse to do that under any circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 22 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Corbin, May, Cable or Farage? Who would you vote for? Cable and Farage have absolutely no chance of forming a government as there is zero chance of them getting 350 or whatever the number is seats. Would Corbyn manage a better Brexit deal than May? I VERY MUCH doubt it. The deal that has been worked out has been between civil servants and the EU commission (effectively their civil servants). Corby would have had exactly the same teams both with him and against him. It is highly unlikely that he would have managed better since the EU has been in the driving seat. Starmer always wanted to remain in the Single Market and Customs Union - and that is in effect Brexit In Name Only (BRINO). Would Corbyn form a better internal government for the UK. No - and by a mile no. They would borrow heavily, frighten off all investment, be soft on immigration, and the higher borrowing would force up both interest rates and inflation. People with a mortgage, borrowings, rental property or savings would all be hit. I doubt they would make much progress on the NHS because it isn't (only) a money issue - its a bad management issue - and that is not a Labour strength. The only people who would benefit are those living on handouts in rented accommodation with no savings. He would also alienate many of our traditional allies by his anti Israel, and pro Moscow and non nuclear stance. Finally, I cannot see any Labour administration being very 'fieldsports' or private gun ownership friendly (selfish attitude maybe, but affects most of use here) So May is the worst of a bad lot, and at least we know how they are sound on the economy - look at current unemployment (lowest for a long time, despite immigration), and borrowings falling (slowly, but they are falling) and the (see other thread) idea that there are 14 million in poverty is clearly nonsense. Yes there has been 'austerity', but that was a legacy issue caused by overspending over a prolonged period. You can't spend your way out of debt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Cable and Farage have absolutely no chance of forming a government as there is zero chance of them getting 350 or whatever the number is seats. Would Corbyn manage a better Brexit deal than May? I VERY MUCH doubt it. The deal that has been worked out has been between civil servants and the EU commission (effectively their civil servants). Corby would have had exactly the same teams both with him and against him. It is highly unlikely that he would have managed better since the EU has been in the driving seat. Starmer always wanted to remain in the Single Market and Customs Union - and that is in effect Brexit In Name Only (BRINO). Would Corbyn form a better internal government for the UK. No - and by a mile no. They would borrow heavily, frighten off all investment, be soft on immigration, and the higher borrowing would force up both interest rates and inflation. People with a mortgage, borrowings, rental property or savings would all be hit. I doubt they would make much progress on the NHS because it isn't (only) a money issue - its a bad management issue - and that is not a Labour strength. The only people who would benefit are those living on handouts in rented accommodation with no savings. He would also alienate many of our traditional allies by his anti Israel, and pro Moscow and non nuclear stance. Finally, I cannot see any Labour administration being very 'fieldsports' or private gun ownership friendly (selfish attitude maybe, but affects most of use here) So May is the worst of a bad lot, and at least we know how they are sound on the economy - look at current unemployment (lowest for a long time, despite immigration), and borrowings falling (slowly, but they are falling) and the (see other thread) idea that there are 14 million in poverty is clearly nonsense. Yes there has been 'austerity', but that was a legacy issue caused by overspending over a prolonged period. You can't spend your way out of debt! For me and many others it's not the point. The issue is, at the moment it appears she's gone directly against the largest democratic vote in this countrys history, which puts her in the same category as Kim Jong un, I don't care how good or bed she'd be for the country after that, her and the majority of her party would be nothing more than dictators and I will not help a dictator into power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 With the electorate seriously ****** off with dishonest, self serving MP's and the tired and corrupt (take it in turns) two party system we have in the UK! There is a danger that a "protest" vote may elect an extremist/populist party, with nothing to offer but empty words and promises but "looks" like a good alternative..........errrrrrrr...like the Corbins Labour Party! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 30 minutes ago, panoma1 said: With the electorate seriously ****** off with dishonest, self serving MP's and the tired and corrupt (take it in turns) two party system we have in the UK! There is a danger that a "protest" vote may elect an extremist/populist party, with nothing to offer but empty words and promises but "looks" like a good alternative..........errrrrrrr...like the Corbins Labour Party! Exactly: whatever happens with Brexit, a pseudo Marxist Chancellor will be far, FAR worse. Heavy borrowing, causes high interest rates, causes mortgages all sky high, causes fall in house prices. Threats of high taxation (especially corporation tax) means no investment in business causes decline in jobs, causes higher unemployment, causes higher still government borrowing Severe fall in value of pound (loss of confidence in British economy), causes higher inflation, higher wage demands, lower competitiveness, more job losses and balance of payments crisis, lack of ability to buy gas and oil overseas (as pounds value is so low) Inflation causes lower living standards for all, higher wage demands, leading to strikes, and lower productivity. In fact, pretty much what happened here under previous labour administrations - and has happened in Corbyn's much admired Venezuela. He blames it on the Americans. Doesn't matter who you blame it on, it still happens and would happen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 Yeah but all of the Corbyn Lemmings would put all the blame on Brexit. It wouldn't be Comrade Corbyn's (or their's for voting for him) fault at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 Just now, Newbie to this said: Yeah but all of the Corbyn Lemmings would put all the blame on Brexit. It wouldn't be Comrade Corbyn's (or their's for voting for him) fault at all. That is certainly likely. I actually think that is why we haven't (and won't) see a real leadership challenge to May ......... because whoever inherits the can or worms will be toast. Once the deed is done - whoever comes in can always pass the blame back - and promise 'new hands now' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: That is certainly likely. I actually think that is why we haven't (and won't) see a real leadership challenge to May ......... because whoever inherits the can or worms will be toast. Once the deed is done - whoever comes in can always pass the blame back - and promise 'new hands now' I wouldn't vote Corbyn either, but I believe voting May would be an even bigger mistake if she fails to deliver on the referendum, a vote for May would be a vote for a dictatorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 With the two electoral system, it depends on what type of constituency you are in. Where I live there is no way we would ever get a labour MP. We might have got a liberal in the past, but I think that is unlikely now. However, with Tory/Labour marginals, every vote counts. I do firmly believe that (a) Corbyn (and team) would have been no better than May on Brexit and (b) Corbyn (and his policies/team) would be a disaster for the country that will leave our future generation with a debt ridden dustbin of a country that will take a generation to correct (if ever). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 33 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Exactly: whatever happens with Brexit, a pseudo Marxist Chancellor will be far, FAR worse. Heavy borrowing, causes high interest rates, causes mortgages all sky high, causes fall in house prices. Threats of high taxation (especially corporation tax) means no investment in business causes decline in jobs, causes higher unemployment, causes higher still government borrowing Severe fall in value of pound (loss of confidence in British economy), causes higher inflation, higher wage demands, lower competitiveness, more job losses and balance of payments crisis, lack of ability to buy gas and oil overseas (as pounds value is so low) Inflation causes lower living standards for all, higher wage demands, leading to strikes, and lower productivity. In fact, pretty much what happened here under previous labour administrations - and has happened in Corbyn's much admired Venezuela. He blames it on the Americans. Doesn't matter who you blame it on, it still happens and would happen here. Under Blair Brown economy grew by 2.4% better than the average in the last century. Pound was very strong, inflation was on target and employment was at a record level. On managing the economy Blair was more Tory than the Tories. Foreign cash earnings were higher than they had ever been since the days of the empire. Fortunately he did not get the chance to take us into the Euro and manufacturing overall declined relative to the growth in services but overall the last labour government was good for the economy. I doubt Mr C would be though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 1 minute ago, oowee said: On managing the economy Blair was more Tory than the Tories. Correct - which is basically why the economy did well. However the borrowings grew massively at the end - and only in part for overseas reasons. Poorly targetted welfare had a huge rise in the Brown premiership era. Blair also benefited from a low borrowing economy inherited from Thatcher/Major - and in fact followed much of that style of economic management initially. It was after Brown had taken over from Blair that the famously 'spent all the money'. It was not so good in the Wilson/Callaghan eras though which culminated in the winter of discontent - and there is every reason to believe that Corby would not follow Blairs 'Tory style' policies, but go for the left side of the Wilson era with its high borrowings and state interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 21 hours ago, Yellow Bear said: Only a remoaner could possibly say that - mind you perhaps we could try him for war crimes and some of the domestic problems he caused, I'll vote for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 I'm 100% against a second referendum ......... but even more against one with Diane Abbott predicting the outcome! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6421169/Labours-Keir-Starmer-says-vote-REMAIN-second-Brexit-referendum.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 8 hours ago, Jaymo said: What’s it they say “a day in Politics is a lifetime” so four years is an eternity for voters to adjust/ forget. JC might not even be here in four years? Sadly will be in it till the end, look how long Dianne has crept around the corridors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 7 hours ago, Gordon R said: Whilst I am not a Tommy Robinson supporter - who is the more racist? Tommy Robinson or Jeremy Corbyn. It's a close run thing in my book. I wouldn't class Tommy Robinson as a racist. If he is one, then maybe I am, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 On 22/11/2018 at 17:00, oowee said: Goodness me as much as that!! That's over £5 each. That will buy us a whole box of lemsip 👍 Whilst on the subject anyone notice how hard it is to get insulin at the moment? I think everyone is stockpiling. Any fact to this comment or just more BS from a remainer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Newbie to this said: Yeah but all of the Corbyn Lemmings would put all the blame on Brexit. It wouldn't be Comrade Corbyn's (or their's for voting for him) fault at all. I think all sorts of people are going to be blaming Brexit for everything they possibly can for the next hundred years. It will become the universal excuse. Brexit and Global warming/ climate change. Perfect! Edited November 23, 2018 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Vince Green said: I think all sorts of people are going to be blaming Brexit for everything they possibly can for the next hundred years. It will become the universal excuse In my opinion, if Brexit is done right, it will only be the EU that can blame Brexit for their misfortunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: In my opinion, if Brexit is done right, it will only be the EU that can blame Brexit for their misfortunes. In an ideal world but every little thing can be made an excuse. The truth must never get in the way of a good excuse if you are a "B" list politician Edited November 23, 2018 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: In my opinion, if Brexit is done right, it will only be the EU that can blame Brexit for their misfortunes. Spot on, unfortunately if May had her way Brexit will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 5 hours ago, old man said: Sadly will be in it till the end, look how long Dianne has crept around the corridors. Corridors? I think Dianne Abbot spent more time creeping down landings if you get my drift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 Something for the remoaners to ponder...If a hard Brexit is so bad for the UK why are they negotiating and saying that a hard Brexit will ruin us? Is it because they know full well we are better off without them and are terrified that we are leading the way for the others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 Quote I wouldn't class Tommy Robinson as a racist. If he is one, then maybe I am, too. motty - Although not a particular fan of Tommy - I worry about where his money comes from - I agree. I don't regard him as a racist, whereas the public at large seem to think he is. Corbyn, who I think has racist issues, denies he is and people seem to accept this. That is why it's a close call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Vince Green said: I think all sorts of people are going to be blaming Brexit for everything they possibly can for the next hundred years. It will become the universal excuse. Brexit and Global warming/ climate change. Perfect! Not just put the blame on Brexit but also those that chose that option. Unless there are good things that come out of it and they will be down to good fortune Seriously the amount of hot air that has been generated over the UK by this subject must have contributed to global warming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts